Heresy or error?

[Johann]

typical do as I say. not as I do,,,,

Pharisaical @Eternally Grateful
J.

 

[Johann]

If you like a certain minister...well and good. But you can't just foist what you have approved on others.

...the way you do in your podcasts, way too long, foisting what you believe as "dokimazo, or peiradzo" on the others, yes?
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ya, it gets crazier on this Forum, the heretics condemns the believers in Christ, and write their own books, the beginning of a cult.
J.

A year or so ago, you were hatefully gnashing Your teeth at everyone about Calvinism being the only true religion. Then you apologized. Now you’ve chosen a different punching bag. Maybe in another year you will begin being nasty to another different “enemy“ such as…any Christian who eats potatoes. Pfft! Who can keep up with where you have been blown to currently? You ooze hatred. Do you think no one has discernment and no one can see that you act nothing like our Lord?
Go ahead, have your last word and your nasty and abusive, clanging tirade until your balloon runs out of hot air.

You're the same hateful little man as you started out as.

Men of Honor (2000) clip with quote You're the same hateful little man as you started out as. Yarn is the best search for video clips by quote. Find the exact moment in a TV show, movie, or music video you want to share. Easily move forward or backward to get to the perfect clip.

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[Eternally Grateful]

Pharisaical @Eternally Grateful
J.

yep. pump their chest while killing true believers

 

[amadeus]

I’ve been thinking about that @amadeus
(how blind are we still?)

How perfect is God's vision?

Not even a prophet is going to fare splendidly if alone. It has to be gut wrenching to have something that can help so many and have everyone refuse it. It would wear you down with sorrow. And they’re the ones who have the revelation/understanding we need to begin building. I say “to begin” because I’m not sure we’ve begun yet. At least not from my experience. It’s kind of like water water everywhere and not a drop to drink. Churches churches everywhere and…

God has always had ALL that [His Word] which is able to help so many and what do we read in the scriptures? Why did God choose Not to reveal all of it to everyone? Why did He choose to use men to speak it or write it down or to explain it?

Why did God choose to give men a choice?

What building is going to be possible if no one has the plans? And if God gives a man the plans but no one can say, oh…okay, I see - but instead, the man God gives the plans to is always run off and not even heard by anyone, there might be a solitary little hut here and there but miles and miles away from each other and not even knowing each other exist or able to help each other build up, build more onto, or even maintain. And that’s “how blind are we still?” We’re very blind still, or maybe a better way to say it is, if you keep killing your prophets or deciding you’re going to do without them, you have literally not discerned Christ’s body, or a part of Christ’s body anyway, and so, without that part, the whole body suffers.

What do we have from God? What do we seek from God? What do we do with that which God has provided to us?

29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.

This is like saying…oh, she is very sick, she has no liver, and a body without a functioning liver is very sickly and near death.

Id be surprised if even five people understood what I’ve said. I’d be happy, but surprised.

And yet, “you will do greater things than this,” where is it?? It obviously went wrong somewhere. There’s a lot of high places built, that’s all.

What is great in the eyes of God? What did Jesus do that was great? What are we as individuals or as a group [Church or Body of Christ?] doing, or what are we going to be doing, that is greater?

Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness. Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King." Psalm 48:2-3 Thy righteousness also, O God, is very high, who hast done great things: O God, who is like unto thee!" Psalm 71:19 More of Him and less of me? He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I was banned for over four months for coming under your spitfire from you...creep back into the hole from whence you came from.
J.

Um…no, if you were banned, it was for your own behavior and tongue.

 

[Johann]

I was banned for over four months for coming under your spitfire from you...creep back into the hole from whence you came from.
J.

Hypocrite.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

How perfect is God's vision?

Huh…? I’d guess it’s greater than 20/20…? Lol.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hypocrite.

You do know you just quoted yourself and then…answered “hypocrite…”?

 

[Johann]

Huh

Duh...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Keep your slimy, filthy tongue to yourself.

No.

 

[amadeus]

Huh…? I’d guess it’s greater than 20/20…? Lol.

No flaws, no distortions or misconceptions, no incompleteness or anything lacking! If we are going to be like Him, how far away from Him are we now? How close to Him are we to be? At our best, may we be in effect the "spitting image" in every respect? How is He perfect? How perfect may we be in comparison with God?

Consider Jesus:

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

 

[amadeus]

Ya, it gets crazier on this Forum, the heretics condemns the believers in Christ, and write their own books, the beginning of a cult.
J.

And the tongue is controlled by whom... if at all?

 

[amadeus]

Where is honesty these days? Have you actually listened to the podcast? Have you read the book? Can you actually quote something accurately and comment on that rather than react with fear and more presumptions and assumptions?

I would venture to say that many people who actually have read or heard what you wrote or spoke are like those about whom Jesus spoke hear:

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:" Matt 13:14

 

[Wrangler]

I find your post somewhat confusing as you are quoting multiple people.

No. Only you. It’s just that you quoted an unnamed person.

And you didn’t answer my question. Who were you quoting?

 

[Wrangler]

The "stay in your lane" only works in reference to bringing judgment on the servant of another.

That is Steve’s point. He is a servant of God - not the servant of those who are criticizing him.

 

[Wrangler]

But you can't just foist what you have approved on others.

Isn’t that what you - and everyone who promotes a particular doctrine - foist what you have approved on others, be it in error or heresy?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Here’s what I’ve been pondering today. I do see that some who cant hear do not hear because of fear. If what was being said were true, or had any truth, to them, it would mean uncertainty rather than certainty and that is intolerable because they think it would mean eternal torture. So they remain in error because of fear.

But the puzzling thing is, seeing and understanding the distinction between righteousness and holiness and that God accepts and makes a place for both groups would actually get rid of the fear and cause them to trust God MORE.

So it’s like…a few very bad doctrines combine and interlock to create a…very great stronghold that keeps them chained and unable to hear.

But is it also fear that takes someone from error into doing great harm/heresy? I don’t think so…did Saul/Paul kill Christians because he was scared? Did any persecutions that have happened occur because the men who did the murdering were in panicky fear?
So what takes someone from error into furious anger and heresy? (And then into murder sometimes?)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Here's the text. Show me where Jesus implied - and why we should say the tares are false converts and heretics that get burned up in the end.

Well, it can’t be shown from the text of that parable, of course. But line adds to line and precept to precept.

But it would be strange if satan had children and DIDNT send them to try to deceive and grab and devour Gods children…

If satan roams around like a lion seeking who he can devour, I would expect his children to do so also.
The apostle said wolves in sheep’s clothing would sneak in and seek todeceive and devour. Who would you say those wolves are the children of?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Here's the heart of the issue. My original objection here was in opposition to the comment where David H said HERETICS WERE SPECIFICALLY implied here which anyone should see they are NOT!

Here's his comment...

Here's the verse. he's referring to...

And I think Christians need to get this through their head. I keep saying - heresy is simply a choice or opinion. It seems Christians enjoy badmouthing their own. The text in NO WAY infers HERETICS! Most 'heresies' are what caused the reformers to go through another reformation. I keep saying - Christians can't agree on anything - and then go out of their way to badmouth their own by saying a certain "class" of "fake Christians' is there are very few damnable ones.

I don’t know. Can’t really follow that. I think the op and DaveH think heresy is teaching that does great harm to men or has the potential to do great harm? i don’t think they see/define it as most do, sort of like…holding different doctrine than the bulk of Protestantism, as that would make them both heretics, lol. It would make me one too.

I don’t really like to use the word heretic. I prefer to say, one doing great harm to another/others. But whereas I used to argue over words and try to insist someone use words I prefer, I now focus on trying to understand what a word means to the one using it. And I think I have understood both men to be meaning:doing great harm.

I guess I wouldn’t look at every “false convert” as necessarily one doing harm to others. But dave had a definition or idea in his head when he chose the words “false convert” instead of choosing some other words, and to me, personally, understanding what that definition or idea in his head is, is more important than what word he chose to express his thought or idea.
I work to understand what someone means or is trying to convey, rather than arguing over words.
But I definitely will sometimes say, oh I see, I use this word when I want to convey that.
I mean, I don’t care for the word faith. I don’t use it. I say “trust” instead. Or I might write it “trust/faith” to convey what I want to convey. But….I dunno.