Hermeneutics 101 - Works of Law vs Works of Grace

[Rocky Wiley]

Works of Law vs Works of Faith

Proper use of words will help us understand the Word of God. How do we do that?

Hermeneutics says that if there is a misunderstanding of a word, then search the scriptures for answers.
Salvation is received and maintained by being obedient to God's word. So as we read the
scriptures below, replace the word works with obedience. I will help by showing that beside each one,

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of
God:
There is no doubt that salvation is by grace through faith. We can accept this just as it is
written.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works(obedience), is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works(obedience): shew me thy faith
without thy works(obedience), and I will shew thee my faith by my works(obedience).
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and
tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works(obedience) is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works(obedience), when he had offered
Isaac his son upon the altar?

Indeed we are saved by grace, but it is by being obedient that it is made perfect. Obedience
is the works of those serving Jesus. So again, let us subsitute the word obedience for works.

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works(obedience), and by works(obedience)
was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was
imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works(obedience) a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works(obedience), when she had
received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works(obedience) is dead
also.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Doing the will of our Father requires obedience.

Luk 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an
house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell;
and the ruin of that house was great.

Joh 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God,
and doeth his will, him he heareth.

1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God
abideth for ever.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to
whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

2Co 7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the
obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the
coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do
works(obedience) meet for repentance.

The above show the works(obedience) of faith.

Other times when law is used in the new testament it will not be used alone but it will state the
works of law.
Now let us look at the works of law. Again we will replaces works with obedience.

Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier
of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works(obedience)? Nay: but
by the law of faith.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law
of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works(obedience)
of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works(obedience) of the law, but by the
faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the
faith of Christ, and not by the works(obedience) of the law: for by the works(obedience) of the
law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before
whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works(obedience) of the
law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth
he it by the works(obedience) of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works(obedience) of the law are under the curse: for it is
written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the
law to do them.

The works(obedience) of the law has been done away with, we live under the works(obedience) of faith.

When Jesus states that we must do something, it is not the for our works(obedience) of the law
but for our works(obedience) of faith that we do it.

 

[williemac]

I think that if the word "obedience" was important or appropriate in these texts, it would have been used.

Works simply means deeds. Obedience on the other hand, implies a mindset. In terms of faith, faith is the mindset.

Works of faith are simply the things in our life that are produced by what we believe. In the book of James, we are reminded Abraham believed that God would fulfill His promise through Isaac. We are also told of Rahab the harlot, who believed the promise that she would be spared if she helped God's messengers. We know this because she helped them. This was more a matter of self preservation than an obedient heart. In any case, neither of these examples had anything to do with obedience to law. There are those who use James to try to validate obedience to law for salvation. But the intent of James was to exhort the reader to show love in a more genuine fashion. This is demonstrated in the reading of the entire letter. He was as much as telling them...if you really have faith, then where is the love?

Here is the progression. If we receive the new birth by faith, then we are changed, As well, the love of God is poured into our hearts. Then we bear the fruit of love. Thus our faith is followed by works of love. There is a cause and effect. Where some go wrong is in the attempt to make works or obedience, a cause as well. But the reality is...fruit happens.

One way to stop fruit is to resist it. This is seen in the parable of the talents, where the servant dug a hole and buried the talent. This demonstrates opposition to one's God given purpose.

The best way to ensure fruit (works of faith), is to abide in Him. This is more a matter of relationship than obedience. Cause and effect. The cause is our abiding. The effect is a fruit filled life.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

I think that if the word "obedience" was important or appropriate in these texts, it would have been used.

Works simply means deeds. Obedience on the other hand, implies a mindset. In terms of faith, faith is the mindset.
.

Hi williemac,

What you have done in your response is to state your opinion. I also stated my opinion when using the word 'obedience' because that seemed to fit what the scriptures say. Let us go a little further with a few more scriptures.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Not every one is going to enter into God's kingdom unless they do his will.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Go ahead and substitute 'deeds' for works, if you like, "and done many wonderful deeds".
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Just Works or Deeds will not be enough for God to know us.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Who ever 'heareth' these things Jesus says, and 'doeth' them are the wise men.
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Build our house on the 'rock', as Jesus says to build it.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
He that 'heardth' these things that Jesus says, and 'does not do them' is a foolish man. If God has said, by way of scripture, to do this or that, then by faith we should do it.
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
One should not let their salvation fall because they would not 'doeth' the things one is told to do by scriptures.

Can one read the above and think that it is our good deeds that get us into heaven, or is it by doing the will of God?

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

 

[williemac]

Hi williemac,

What you have done in your response is to state your opinion. I also stated my opinion when using the word 'obedience' because that seemed to fit what the scriptures say. Let us go a little further with a few more scriptures.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Not every one is going to enter into God's kingdom unless they do his will.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Go ahead and substitute 'deeds' for works, if you like, "and done many wonderful deeds".
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Just Works or Deeds will not be enough for God to know us.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Who ever 'heareth' these things Jesus says, and 'doeth' them are the wise men.
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Build our house on the 'rock', as Jesus says to build it.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
He that 'heardth' these things that Jesus says, and 'does not do them' is a foolish man. If God has said, by way of scripture, to do this or that, then by faith we should do it.
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
One should not let their salvation fall because they would not 'doeth' the things one is told to do by scriptures.

Can one read the above and think that it is our good deeds that get us into heaven, or is it by doing the will of God?

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

So, just what is the will of God regarding salvation? One passage that comes to mind is Rom.10:9,10. Another concerning the command from Jesus to the church is found in 1John 3:23, where we are told there are two: believe on the name of His Son and love one another. Later on, John said (5:13).." These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
As far as your comment that works and deeds are not enough for God to know us, I would follow up with 1Cor.8:3,..."if anyone loves God, this one is also know by Him". Love is the fulfillment of the law. God Himself is love. Love is the focal point of life. As Paul told the Corinthians, there are many good things that one can have or do, but these are all worthless if he has not love.

I don't know for sure what it is you have been getting at, but I will assure you that we cannot earn our way into the kingdom of heaven. Life is a free gift. The will of God for us concerning life is to accept it as such; a free gift. There are many who go about in a vain pursuit of self justification. Many will sugar coat it so that it doesn't appear to be self justification. But as Jesus demonstrated in Luke 18:10-14, he who exalts himslef will be humbled (abased). And he who humbles himself will be justified. God's will for us in that passage is to humble ourselves, for as James also said, God gives grace to the humble, resists the proud.

Eternal life will never be given from God as an obligation or response to a person's efforts. It will be refused on that basis. One can only get it through the humility of accepting it freely. Life comes from God and God alone. Anyone thinking he can produce or attain life from within his own resources is merely stealing God's role and glory in the matter. Let's be clear on this.

Everything we do as Christians is done after having received life from God. Nothing we do as Christians is done to attain or keep it. Nothing!! This is the will of God; That we simply bear the fruit of the life He has given us. But if one thinks he is producing life from his fruit, it cannot be called fruit. It enters another category. Fruit comes as a result of life, not the other way around. A pear tree cannot bear pears unless it is first...a pear tree.

Jesus cursed a tree one time for not bearing any fruit. But He also shared from the parable of the talents, one actually has to make a special effort to bear no fruit at all. We do not have to work at bearing fruit. It comes rather naturally as we abide in Christ. But if we want to bear no fruit at all, we must work at that. In fact it takes more effort to bear no fruit than to bear just a little. We saw that in the parable of the talents when the master said it would have been enough for the servant to simply put the money in the bank to collect interest all on its own.

In summary, the will of God is that we refrain from trying to produce that which He is offering as a free gift.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

So, just what is the will of God regarding salvation? One passage that comes to mind is Rom.10:9,10. Another concerning the command from Jesus to the church is found in 1John 3:23, where we are told there are two: believe on the name of His Son and love one another. Later on, John said (5:13).." These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
As far as your comment that works and deeds are not enough for God to know us, I would follow up with 1Cor.8:3,..."if anyone loves God, this one is also know by Him". Love is the fulfillment of the law. God Himself is love. Love is the focal point of life. As Paul told the Corinthians, there are many good things that one can have or do, but these are all worthless if he has not love.

I don't know for sure what it is you have been getting at, but I will assure you that we cannot earn our way into the kingdom of heaven. Life is a free gift. The will of God for us concerning life is to accept it as such; a free gift. There are many who go about in a vain pursuit of self justification. Many will sugar coat it so that it doesn't appear to be self justification. But as Jesus demonstrated in Luke 18:10-14, he who exalts himslef will be humbled (abased). And he who humbles himself will be justified. God's will for us in that passage is to humble ourselves, for as James also said, God gives grace to the humble, resists the proud.

Eternal life will never be given from God as an obligation or response to a person's efforts. It will be refused on that basis. One can only get it through the humility of accepting it freely. Life comes from God and God alone. Anyone thinking he can produce or attain life from within his own resources is merely stealing God's role and glory in the matter. Let's be clear on this.

Everything we do as Christians is done after having received life from God. Nothing we do as Christians is done to attain or keep it. Nothing!! This is the will of God; That we simply bear the fruit of the life He has given us. But if one thinks he is producing life from his fruit, it cannot be called fruit. It enters another category. Fruit comes as a result of life, not the other way around. A pear tree cannot bear pears unless it is first...a pear tree.

Jesus cursed a tree one time for not bearing any fruit. But He also shared from the parable of the talents, one actually has to make a special effort to bear no fruit at all. We do not have to work at bearing fruit. It comes rather naturally as we abide in Christ. But if we want to bear no fruit at all, we must work at that. In fact it takes more effort to bear no fruit than to bear just a little. We saw that in the parable of the talents when the master said it would have been enough for the servant to simply put the money in the bank to collect interest all on its own.

In summary, the will of God is that we refrain from trying to produce that which He is offering as a free gift.

Hi williemac,

Sometimes quoting scripture about subject matter is revealing to people. To others it is like a brick wall. Let me point out that Jesus does not expect us to know everything in the bible but he wants us to keep an open mind. I have been living for God for forty-seven years and much of what I have learned is in just the last ten. In 2003 my son came to me and ask if I believed something that he had been told about God's word. It went against our church doctrine, but I told him I would try to gather up all the information that I could find and give him an answer. Six months later he ask me again, and I had to tell him that there were no scriptures to disprove what he had been told and as a matter of fact he should go ahead in living and believing what he had learned.

It was not something that went against God, it was in addition to what he already knew. I then realized we should never reject biblical passages just because we had never been taught it. Because of that God has continued to open up scripture without taking away other truths we had, but eliminating those in error. He keeps showing us more and more in his scripture.

If you are a young person, be patient. God will give you plenty of time to learn if you will keep an open mind. Also, if you have read something that is different than what you have been taught, study it and ask God for understanding.

 

[williemac]

Hi williemac,

Sometimes quoting scripture about subject matter is revealing to people. To others it is like a brick wall. Let me point out that Jesus does not expect us to know everything in the bible but he wants us to keep an open mind. I have been living for God for forty-seven years and much of what I have learned is in just the last ten. In 2003 my son came to me and ask if I believed something that he had been told about God's word. It went against our church doctrine, but I told him I would try to gather up all the information that I could find and give him an answer. Six months later he ask me again, and I had to tell him that there were no scriptures to disprove what he had been told and as a matter of fact he should go ahead in living and believing what he had learned.

It was not something that went against God, it was in addition to what he already knew. I then realized we should never reject biblical passages just because we had never been taught it. Because of that God has continued to open up scripture without taking away other truths we had, but eliminating those in error. He keeps showing us more and more in his scripture.

If you are a young person, be patient. God will give you plenty of time to learn if you will keep an open mind. Also, if you have read something that is different than what you have been taught, study it and ask God for understanding.

FYI, I am 59 and have been a Christian for 33 yrs. I am not a trained bible expert by my own admission, but I will say that I am very passionate about a few subjects that I have studied and meditated on quite extensively for quite some time. These subjects I have engaged in discussing and debating with others on the internet for more than a dozen years, and also have led a home group for at least that long. One thing that has helped me for years is my willingness to look at and consider both sides of a doctrinal disagreement and am open to correction. Because of this, I am often very sure of what I believe and why I believe it, also having taken it to God in prayer, study, and meditation. I stay away from engaging in any subject that I have not put in due diligence toward.

The subject of the law vs. faith is a favorite of the so called 'grace movement'. I am careful not to put labels on things or people, but I was caught up in this kind of movenent some time ago. As is my style, I determined to find my own understanding rather than let someone else tell me what to believe.

I am not so much trying to correct your presentation, but merely adding my two cents worth, for what it is worth. Blessings, Howie

 

[Rocky Wiley]

So, just what is the will of God regarding salvation? One passage that comes to mind is Rom.10:9,10. Another concerning the command from Jesus to the church is found in 1John 3:23, where we are told there are two: believe on the name of His Son and love one another. Later on, John said (5:13).." These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
As far as your comment that works and deeds are not enough for God to know us, I would follow up with 1Cor.8:3,..."if anyone loves God, this one is also know by Him". Love is the fulfillment of the law. God Himself is love. Love is the focal point of life. As Paul told the Corinthians, there are many good things that one can have or do, but these are all worthless if he has not love.

In summary, the will of God is that we refrain from trying to produce that which He is offering as a free gift.

williemac,

I read through your post again and I want you to know I agree. Love is a part, and a very large part of our salvation. My contention is that we come to God because he called us and by faith we answered that call.
Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Real love on our part was not a part of answering that call. It was an act of faith and the desire to be saved. Love came as we begin to know him. We did that by learning who God really is, not just that he is God. This comes through study of His word, which it tells up to do.
I relate love to be like our courtship with the person we eventually married. It starts out as desire to be with them. Over a period of time, as we know them better, it turns to love.
When this happens to us with God we want to share the Love of God with everyone.
1Jn 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jn 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

So then, when we love God, we will want to do his will.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

I appreciate your comments.

 

[ScottAU]

Faith is simply entrusting our well being to our Creator completely whereby we actually yield to His instruction.

The law was a mere shadow of love and thus true righteousness is not found in the shadow.

The Bible teaches that faith works by love and that love fulfills the law. Thus the work of faith which Paul speaks of is simply obedience to God from the heart. God looks at our faithfulness to Him from the heart and it is on this basis as to whether he imputes as as righteous or not. Abraham was fully yielded to God from the heart and God counted that kind of faith as righteousness apart from any particular outward action.

This is why James teaches that faith without works is dead because genuine faith will ALWAYS manifest outward obedience. Yet outward obedience is not always a manifestation of genuine faith, the Pharisees being a good example of an outward form of obedience while remaining inwardly defiled.

Both Cain and Abel made offerings to God thus OUTWARDLY they both had works. Yet it was not their works that would justify them but the faith that was behind those works. Abel had a genuine faith while Cain did not. Thus we are justified by faith apart from works.

 

[Angelina]

Very well said scottAU and welcome to CyB!

Blessings!!!

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Hi ScottAU,

You have said in a few words what took me a full page.

Thank you for your response!

As with Angelina, I welcome you.

Faith is simply entrusting our well being to our Creator completely whereby we actually yield to His instruction.

The law was a mere shadow of love and thus true righteousness is not found in the shadow.

The Bible teaches that faith works by love and that love fulfills the law. Thus the work of faith which Paul speaks of is simply obedience to God from the heart. God looks at our faithfulness to Him from the heart and it is on this basis as to whether he imputes as as righteous or not. Abraham was fully yielded to God from the heart and God counted that kind of faith as righteousness apart from any particular outward action.

This is why James teaches that faith without works is dead because genuine faith will ALWAYS manifest outward obedience. Yet outward obedience is not always a manifestation of genuine faith, the Pharisees being a good example of an outward form of obedience while remaining inwardly defiled.

Both Cain and Abel made offerings to God thus OUTWARDLY they both had works. Yet it was not their works that would justify them but the faith that was behind those works. Abel had a genuine faith while Cain did not. Thus we are justified by faith apart from works.

 

[Sargento]

Rocky...

Works of Law vs Works of Faith

Proper use of words will help us understand the Word of God. How do we do that?

Hermeneutics says that if there is a misunderstanding of a word, then search the scriptures for answers.
Salvation is received and maintained by being obedient to God's word. So as we read the
scriptures below, replace the word works with obedience. I will help by showing that beside each one,

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of
God:
There is no doubt that salvation is by grace through faith. We can accept this just as it is
written.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works(obedience), is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works(obedience): shew me thy faith
without thy works(obedience), and I will shew thee my faith by my works(obedience).
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and
tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works(obedience) is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works(obedience), when he had offered
Isaac his son upon the altar?

Indeed we are saved by grace, but it is by being obedient that it is made perfect. Obedience
is the works of those serving Jesus. So again, let us subsitute the word obedience for works.

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works(obedience), and by works(obedience)
was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was
imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works(obedience) a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works(obedience), when she had
received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works(obedience) is dead
also.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Doing the will of our Father requires obedience.

Luk 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an
house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell;
and the ruin of that house was great.

Joh 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God,
and doeth his will, him he heareth.

1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God
abideth for ever.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to
whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

2Co 7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the
obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the
coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do
works(obedience) meet for repentance.

The above show the works(obedience) of faith.

Other times when law is used in the new testament it will not be used alone but it will state the
works of law.
Now let us look at the works of law. Again we will replaces works with obedience.

Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier
of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works(obedience)? Nay: but
by the law of faith.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law
of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works(obedience)
of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works(obedience) of the law, but by the
faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the
faith of Christ, and not by the works(obedience) of the law: for by the works(obedience) of the
law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before
whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works(obedience) of the
law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth
he it by the works(obedience) of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works(obedience) of the law are under the curse: for it is
written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the
law to do them.

The works(obedience) of the law has been done away with, we live under the works(obedience) of faith.

When Jesus states that we must do something, it is not the for our works(obedience) of the law
but for our works(obedience) of faith that we do it.

The understanding is not in exchanging words, it's in knowing the gospel... and the gospel is that HE SAVED us by it's grace... and what comes by grace is not pending in our hands or own value or own capacity of works or obedience...
And the reason that even faith is asked from us is because it is also a GIFT from him... so even the faith we have is HE that sustains so we might have the sign of the elect.

And by understanding this there's no more confusion... any kind of own value is null because HE is everything in everyone.

What obey's HIM is our spirit, not our flesh... the motive we're covered by flesh is for us to understand that we CANNOT obey HIM... this life is a "lesson".
If you're reborn no matter how little or how much you sin (by works) because your spirit will still be saint and perfect by GOD's will because the spirit of the just was regenerated of an INCORRUPTIBLE seed... so no matter how much you sin, your holiness is not in your actions nor it could be for has it is written in our spirit lives Christ, but in our body lives sin... so it is impossible that our works can show our faith because the life in our body is not the life in our spirit, because they life by different natures... the spirit loves Christ and hates sin, the body hates Christ and loves sin.

This is GOD's lesson to HIS children so they might understand how evil sin is ... this is why the elect knows GOD, himself and the wicked, but the wicked does not even knows himself because sin closes his eyes so he does not understand his own death... much less can he know GOD so that he even have a chance to choose HIM.

By knowing GOD all the "works" or "obedience" or "faith" will fall in the right place... not by studding much...

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Rocky...

By knowing GOD all the "works" or "obedience" or "faith" will fall in the right place... not by studding much...

HI Sargento,

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Being saved is a gift from God.

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Not of our works.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
It is not our works but the works of Jesus that we walk in.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?
We can not call upon the name of Jesus until we believe.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Faith comes by the hearing the word of God.

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
If we have faith, we will believe.


Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
The eunuch believed and was baptized(work of faith and obedience).


Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Act 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
Act 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized , he and all his, straightway.
They believed and were baptized (work of faith and obedience)

 

[Sargento]

Rocky, what you UNDERSTAND of what you read comes not from reading but from the spirit within you. If your spirit is from GOD you'll understand one thing, if it is not you'll understand the opposite.

What you read is just a testimonial from someone, but understanding it and believing it is in you not the words it self... and what you are depends on the CREATOR.



What is your point in this reply?

Yes the eunuch believed, but he's baptism in the water was not obedience... he did not obeyed anyone, he asked to be baptized... he obeyed the Holy Ghost however in his spirit by believing in what he told trough Philip.

The keeper of the prison also obeyed by believing, and then voluntarily (not by obedience) took them home, and was also baptized.

In spirit the reborn always obeys (believes), but in their actions not always... I don't understand what are you trying to show here, but if it was obedience these are not the best examples ... in this cases were not talking about "obedience", at least not in actions because what they did came from them selves not by obedience to others.

However you can find many examples of reborn man obeying and not obeying... what is your point?