Hillary Clinton on "Why young people are leaving church?"

[Prayer Warrior]

This generation would see the real paul , jude , peter or james and just monsters . I mean look at some of those letters they wrote .
But to this generation , times change and its not relevant and their kind of attitude wont grow a church .
Its all about numbers .

Yeah, in the 90s, the buzzword of so many churches was "relevant." The GOSPEL is always relevant.

 

[dev553344]

I probably should have said the following along with my last comment. I have seen a lot of judging from the flesh, as opposed to righteous judgment, and I fight this in myself when I see it. It can be difficult to discern whether our judgment is righteous or sinful.

The judgment that is of the flesh and gets us into trouble is SELF-righteous judgment. When we find ourselves judging others from the standpoint that WE would never sin like they're sinning, then I believe we are judging self-righteously, not righteously. I'm not young, and I have come to believe that anyone is capable of any and every horrible sin. Even the "good" people are.

This is what Paul said in Galatians 6 to the church and something I've needed to be reminded of....

Gal 6:1-5--Brothers, if someone is caught in any wrongdoing, you who are spiritual should restore such a person with a gentle spirit, watching out for yourselves so you also won’t be tempted. Carry one another’s burdens; in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone considers himself to be something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But each person should examine his own work, and then he will have a reason for boasting in himself alone, and not in respect to someone else. For each person will have to carry his own load.

I like that because I think it is important for us to judge ourselves and judge the church we belong to (not the people, but perhaps the fruit of the people as a gauge of the church teachings itself).

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I like that because I think it is important for us to judge ourselves and judge the church we belong to (not the people, but perhaps the fruit of the people as a gauge of the church teachings itself).

Right, we call sin for what it is, but in an attitude of meekness like Paul said.

 

[dev553344]

Right, we call sin for what it is, but in an attitude of meekness like Paul said.

I'm really terrible at the meekness part, which is why I'm glad to just be a member and not the officials of the church. For the record I don't think that churches should support sinful behavior openly or be accepted by church members openly either. At least that's my ideal church.

 

[Josho]

So

@Prayer Warrior @teamventure

So how would you draw the line between preaching sin and condemnation?

When preaching to broken people you obviously have to be quite careful.

And does Matthew 7:1 speak of all judgement from men towards others? Why or why not?

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

See post #57....

And perhaps this is a reason?
Catholic priest says Democrats are going to hell — and Texas bishop backs him up

It's not our job to condemn others to hell.....


Some young people are getting the wrong idea of Christianity and God. These are the questions needed to be asked. Why do some young people see God as hateful? As it's obviously the wrong image that they are seeing. Should they instead be seeing a powerful loving God? Are most Churches giving an accurate representation of God's character? Is too much time being spent on preaching about sin and judgement to the world, when most don't even know what sin is, or why sin is sin? Is there too much emphasis and focus on just a few things?

Could too many Christians siding too close to Trump be pushing others away and even making others run away from Christianity?

Is it time to stand up against bullying remarks more?

Are the "disadvantaged" being respected enough? (and by disadvantaged I mean all sorts of things) A few examples are.... The homeless, those that are struggling to pay their bills (perhaps they maybe aren't even able to pay their bills), the disabled.

And if we want to make this more political, why are a majority of African-American Christians voting for the Democrats? And some of these people are very lively Christians.

More to the point ask any black person why they are voting for trump and you will find a intelligent person with a work ethic and pride in themselves, but such a demoncrat will most likely be only sponging off others and demanding all sorts of nonsense.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I'm really terrible at the meekness part, which is why I'm glad to just be a member and not the officials of the church. For the record I don't think that churches should support sinful behavior openly or be accepted by church members openly either. At least that's my ideal church.

Yeah, me too. I must say that I've rarely seen church discipline done well. It's not an easy thing, but if done in love for the benefit of the person caught in sin, I believe that God will work out the details.

 

[dev553344]

Yeah, me too. I must say that I've rarely seen church discipline done well. It's not an easy thing, but if done in love for the benefit of the person caught in sin, I believe that God will work out the details.

I've seen it done well. And I think if people don't get offended easily it goes over better. I think, if I got this right, that Matthew 11:4-6 fits the discipline area well when church leaders are speaking for Christ's ways: "And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me." As Jesus said regarding teaching the gospel to the poor.

Jesus didn't stop his teachings in the new testament because he feared people would get offended and feel judged. But blessed are them which are not offended.

 

[Josho]

More to the point ask any black person why they are voting for trump and you will find a intelligent person with a work ethic and pride in themselves, but such a demoncrat will most likely be only sponging off others and demanding all sorts of nonsense.

Well they aren't demons, these are Christian voters voting for Democrats I was talking about in that post, they obviously have their reasons.

I think you will find far too often, the rich still stay rich and the poor still stay poor.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

So

@Prayer Warrior @teamventure

So how would you draw the line between preaching sin and condemnation?

When preaching to broken people you obviously have to be quite careful.

And does Matthew 7:1 speak of all judgement from men towards others? Why or why not?

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

First, we ALL judge others sometimes. Let's just get that straight right off the bat.

Jesus said, "Do not judge" (Matt 7:1), and He said, "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment" (John 7:24). As I understand it, the problem arises when we judge with unrighteous or SELF-righteous judgment, like I said earlier. Paul talked about judging sin in the church.

You seem to be assuming that everyone living in sin is broken about their sin. Some are self-righteous and hard-hearted about their sin. I've watched some politicians say they are proud of the fact that they've kept abortion legal. I know you don't like my stressing this evil, but it's such a blatant evil. These people need to be broken-hearted about their sin in order to repent instead of being proud of it.

Jonathan Edwards, who lived in the 1700s, preached a sermon titled "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God." It was a fiery sermon, and I have read that many would fall on the floor weeping over their sin when they heard it. The sad thing is he wouldn't be allowed in some of today's churches because people would feel offended.

So, I would conclude by saying that any time we judge others unrighteously, we are sinning. Obviously, we need to avoid this. But sin in the church has to be dealt with, or others can be influenced to fall into sin.
.

 

[Josho]

First, we ALL judge others sometimes. Let's just get that straight right off the bat.

Jesus said, "Do not judge" (Matt 7:1), and He said, "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment" (John 7:24). As I understand it, the problem arises when we judge with unrighteous or SELF-righteous judgment, like I said earlier. Paul talked about judging sin in the church.

You seem to be assuming that everyone living in sin is broken about their sin. Some are self-righteous and hard-hearted about their sin. I've watched some politicians say they are proud of the fact that they've kept abortion legal. I know you don't like my stressing this evil, but it's such a blatant evil. These people need to be broken-hearted about their sin in order to repent instead of being proud of it.

Jonathan Edwards, who lived in the 1700s, preached a sermon titled "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God." It was a fiery sermon, and I have read that many would fall on the floor weeping over their sin when they heard it. The sad thing is he wouldn't be allowed in some of today's churches because people would feel offended.

So, I would conclude by saying that any time we judge others unrighteously, we are sinning. Obviously, we need to avoid this. But sin in the church has to be dealt with, or others can be influenced to fall into sin.
.

Well thanks for providing the other verse, so as someone was saying before unrighteous judgement would obviously be "judging in the flesh," and can cause more harm than good.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I've seen it done well. And I think if people don't get offended easily it goes over better. I think, if I got this right, that Matthew 11:4-6 fits the discipline area well when church leaders are speaking for Christ's ways: "And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me." As Jesus said regarding teaching the gospel to the poor.

Jesus didn't stop his teachings in the new testament because he feared people would get offended and feel judged. But blessed are them which are not offended.

I think that church discipline goes much better if the person being disciplined knows that those doing the disciplining love them. Of course, this is true for any kind of discipline--from a parent, a teacher, an employer, etc.

Love is the key.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Well thanks for providing the other verse, so as someone was saying before unrighteous judgement would obviously be "judging in the flesh," and can cause more harm than good.

Yes, I would say that judging from the flesh, like any sin of the flesh, always causes harm. Sin harms., which is why it has to be dealt with....

 

[Josho]

People have left church over "judging in the flesh."

Not long ago someone was doing an interview on the tv, someone left the church, because a Pentecostal preacher could not tell the difference between demonic possesion and mental health, he kept trying to cast demons out but it didn't work, since it was just a mental health problem.

The girl ended up leaving worser off and more broken.....

 

[dev553344]

People have left church over "judging in the flesh."

Not long ago someone was doing an interview on the tv, someone left the church, because a Pentecostal preacher could not tell the difference between demonic possesion and mental health, he kept trying to cast demons out but it didn't work, since it was just a mental health problem.

The girl ended up leaving worser off and more broken.....

That's one of the deal breakers for me with a church. If they can't tell the difference between demonic possession and mental health. I find the problem very toxic.

 

[teamventure]

See post #57....

And perhaps this is a reason?
Catholic priest says Democrats are going to hell — and Texas bishop backs him up

It's not our job to condemn others to hell.....


Some young people are getting the wrong idea of Christianity and God. These are the questions needed to be asked. Why do some young people see God as hateful? As it's obviously the wrong image that they are seeing. Should they instead be seeing a powerful loving God? Are most Churches giving an accurate representation of God's character? Is too much time being spent on preaching about sin and judgement to the world, when most don't even know what sin is, or why sin is sin? Is there too much emphasis and focus on just a few things?

Could too many Christians siding too close to Trump be pushing others away and even making others run away from Christianity?

Is it time to stand up against bullying remarks more?

Are the "disadvantaged" being respected enough? (and by disadvantaged I mean all sorts of things) A few examples are.... The homeless, those that are struggling to pay their bills (perhaps they maybe aren't even able to pay their bills), the disabled.

And if we want to make this more political, why are a majority of African-American Christians voting for the Democrats? And some of these people are very lively Christians.

Your post #57 doesn't answer my question. Btw.
So millenials are leaving church because church leaders in their churches preach dems are going to hell? I hear multiple sermons a week from several churches accross the country I have never heard that preached.

Your post contradicts itself. First you say that churches preach too much about sin (when in fact they don't preach enough about sin as it is a core doctrine to the gospel)
then you say when most don't know what sin is or why sin is sin? Well the fix to that would be to preach a more comprehensive teaching about sin not to preach it less. This is a no brainer.

Siding close to Trump? I thought this was about judging, not where people are leaning politically.

Bullying remarks could you please clarify?

I agree that the disadvantaged aren't respected enough. This is the case in all of society not just churches.

And about African Americans voting dem. The democratic party have been decieving minority communities for years that the conservative party are racist when it's historically been the other way around.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

People have left church over "judging in the flesh."

Not long ago someone was doing an interview on the tv, someone left the church, because a Pentecostal preacher could not tell the difference between demonic possesion and mental health, he kept trying to cast demons out but it didn't work, since it was just a mental health problem.

The girl ended up leaving worser off and more broken.....

So...are you judging this preacher? Did you witness this and see all that happened? Perhaps he did what was right in God's eyes.

 

[Bobby Jo]

...
What Is Truth? ...

If you think you know what TRUTH is, then why did you divert the discussion of why "Christianity Today" publishes anti-Christian perspectives by pointing to their "Statement of Faith" as though ONE equals THE OTHER?!?

The only person who contrives such deceit is NOT speaking TRUTH, but instead -- a thinly veiled LIE. And it came from YOU!
Bobby Jo

 

[teamventure]

So

@Prayer Warrior @teamventure

So how would you draw the line between preaching sin and condemnation?

When preaching to broken people you obviously have to be quite careful.

And does Matthew 7:1 speak of all judgement from men towards others? Why or why not?

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

Preach sin. Sin is a basic principle to the gospel message. Preaching sin, the need for redemption, and the cross as the solution is the basis to the Christian message. These basic principles can' t be preached enough. It is wrong of you Josho to say that churches preach sin too much. Most churches are doing the opposite and not preaching sin enough these days.
There's the line.
Condemnation would be when the preacher says shame on you to a certain group of people from the pulpit which is something that happens less now than ever.
The problem with millennials leaving church is that many of them have succumb to a post-modern worldview that believes calling sin sin is judging and to be loving you have to accept sin.

 

[Josho]

So...are you judging this preacher? Did you witness this and see all that happened? Perhaps he did what was right in God's eyes.

Am I? Well I will leave that for you to decide, I did not give his name or the name of the Church. And I saw the interview.....