Hillary Clinton on "Why young people are leaving church?"

[Prayer Warrior]

Am I? Well I will leave that for you to decide, I did not give his name or the name of the Church. And I saw the interview.....

I didn’t say you were. I asked. All I can say is perhaps the girl was demonized and the pastor was trying to help her. We don’t know for sure.

Was this a recent incident?

 

[Josho]

Preach sin. Sin is a basic principle to the gospel message. Preaching sin, the need for refemption, and the cross as the solution is the basis to the Christian message. These basic principles can' t be preached enough. It is wrong of you Josho to say that churches preach sin too much. Most churches are doing the opposite and not preaching sin enough these days.
There's the line.
Condemnation would be when the preacher says shame on you to a certain group of people from the pulpit which is something that happens less now than ever.
The problem with millennials leaving church is that they have succumb to a secular worldview that believes calling sin sin is judging and to be loving you have to accept sin. That is a lie from satan.

Then in this case, isn't preaching forgiveness, grace and the love Jesus had for us when He died on the cross for our sins more important? Isn't preaching the ressurrection power of Jesus more important?

 

[Josho]

I didn’t say you were. I asked. All I can say is perhaps the girl was demonized and the pastor was trying to help her. We don’t know for sure.

Was this a recent incident?

Probably a year or 2 ago.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Probably a year or 2 ago.

I see. Well, I pray that this girl will get the help she needs.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

And y’all please keep those going through Hurricane Delta in your prayers!

 

[dev553344]

Preach sin. Sin is a basic principle to the gospel message. Preaching sin, the need for redemption, and the cross as the solution is the basis to the Christian message. These basic principles can' t be preached enough. It is wrong of you Josho to say that churches preach sin too much. Most churches are doing the opposite and not preaching sin enough these days.
There's the line.
Condemnation would be when the preacher says shame on you to a certain group of people from the pulpit which is something that happens less now than ever.
The problem with millennials leaving church is that they have succumb to a secular worldview that believes calling sin sin is judging and to be loving you have to accept sin. That is a lie from satan.

What about a mixed message, with teachings of sin along with salvation? A low and a high, low first and high later. That's how my church preaches, warning and edifying, uplifting. Then I see nothing wrong with sin teaching. You probably meant that anyways, cheers

 

[teamventure]

Then in this case, isn't preaching forgiveness, grace and the love Jesus had for us when He died on the cross for our sins more important? Isn't preaching the ressurrection power of Jesus more important?

It's all part of the same message of the gospel man, so it is equally important.

The problem with the messages today is the lack of emphasis there is on sin and what it is to the point now that people in church are beginning to think sin isn't an issue.
Sin is an issue and the lack of emphasis on teaching it is leaving people unconvicted and leading them to hell. It is more loving to preach about sin.

 

[teamventure]

What about a mixed message, with teachings of sin along with salvation? A low and a high, low first and high later. That's how my church preaches, warning and edifying, uplifting. Then I see nothing wrong with sin teaching. You probably meant that anyways, cheers

Sounds like the best approach. Tried and true. Shalom!

 

[teamventure]

"If" any professing Christians are against the gospel message concerning sin in the church "maybe" it would be good for them to leave so to not contaminate the flock.

 

[Josho]

John 8:1-11

Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd. “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?” They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust. When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?” “No, Lord,” she said. And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

 

[teamventure]

From Galations
1. [1] Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised himfrom the dead ... [9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any manpreach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Paul would be considered too judgemental for todays church by a long stretch, he was considered judgemental in his day, to the point where they killed him for it.
Does this passage reveal how the early church handled those who would preach a gospel without the concept of sin?

 

[teamventure]

John 8:1-11

Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd. “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?” They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust. When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?” “No, Lord,” she said. And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

So could you illustrate for us a modern day version of this type of judgement so we can apply the scripture you posted? Thanks.

 

[historyb]

Yeah, in the 90s, the buzzword of so many churches was "relevant." The GOSPEL is always relevant.

I remember that in the evangelical world. When I was in Southern California College, now Vanguard in the 90's some churches were talking about this but my college never did and the chaplain said we didn't need to be relevant but we need to go by God's Word.

 

[Brakelite]

What? Do you include yourself in that "too many people"?

No. The too many people are those whose foundations are other than scripture. Those whose lives are not being challenged or changed by truth. Those whose churches are socially oriented rather than service oriented. One third of our small congregation of 80 odd are under 25.
It may surprise some to know that young people love biblically based studies and practice.
That's not to say that young people aren't leaving churches in my denomination. It isn't a denomination problem. It's an individual local church issue I think. Taking the youth to movies and having parties and concerts doesn't feel the soul. Young people aren't stupid. They are hungry for truth and want genuine meaning in their lives.

 

[Giuliano]

No. The too many people are those whose foundations are other than scripture. Those whose lives are not being challenged or changed by truth. Those whose churches are socially oriented rather than service oriented. One third of our small congregation of 80 odd are under 25.
It may surprise some to know that young people love biblically based studies and practice.
That's not to say that young people aren't leaving churches in my denomination. It isn't a denomination problem. It's an individual local church issue I think. Taking the youth to movies and having parties and concerts doesn't feel the soul. Young people aren't stupid. They are hungry for truth and want genuine meaning in their lives.

So in short, you see yourself as right and superior to too many people. . . . Maybe you are, I won't debate that.

You think salvation can be found in scripture?

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

What makes a proper foundation? This is what I would say:

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. . . .
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

[Giuliano]

Then in this case, isn't preaching forgiveness, grace and the love Jesus had for us when He died on the cross for our sins more important? Isn't preaching the ressurrection power of Jesus more important?

Sins are burdens, sin harms us and other people. Why condemn sinners? Tell them they can be set free. Good news. Glad tidings. Comfort and joy.

 

[Brakelite]

So in short, you see yourself as right and superior to too many people. . . . Maybe you are, I won't debate that.

You think salvation can be found in scripture?

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

What makes a proper foundation? This is what I would say:

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. . . .
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Salvation is found in Jesus. It is scripture that reveals Who Jesus is. Just as Jesus said.
As far as the to many people thing is concerned, I am only repeating scripture. It's a wide road that leads to destruction. And just one church... One pastor... On that road is too many. Note that the following is speaking about the church.
KJV 2 Timothy 3:1-5
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

I think I could place Hillary Clinton in the above list on at least 5 counts.

 

[Josho]

Sins are burdens, sin harms us and other people. Why condemn sinners? Tell them they can be set free. Good news. Glad tidings. Comfort and joy.

@teamventure

 

[Brakelite]

Sins are burdens, sin harms us and other people. Why condemn sinners? Tell them they can be set free. Good news. Glad tidings. Comfort and joy.

I agree with the above. We aren't called to condemn the world, but to lead them to Jesus. However, when it comes to the church, we are to call out hypocrisy and sin wherever we see it for one important reason. The church is meant to reflect Christ... How can we attract people... Sinners... In the world to a Christ that is corrupted by sin and worldliness?
KJV Isaiah 58:1
1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

 

[Josho]

So could you illustrate for us a modern day version of this type of judgement so we can apply the scripture you posted? Thanks.

I actually believe that there are quite a number of pharisees and teachers of religious law today, it may not be physical stones, but verbal stones yes. You don't have to look far to find them.