HILLSONG

[Stan B]

Stan,


Brian Houston admitted 'to the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse that his father [Frank] was guilty of other cases of sexual abuse against children'. However, the Assemblies of God covered it up. See the entry on Frank Houston at: Frank Houston - Wikipedia

Yes Oz, I am quite familiar with the entire rotten mess.

 

[marks]

What I am doing it to find out more about Hillsong from those who know as in people that have been members of the church or are members of the church amongst others. I am doing that because you hear all sorts of stories and at the end of the day it is just an opinion.

So then why exactly do you brand Hillsong as a cult?

No offense . . . it sounds like you just have a general impression of them.

Chuck Smith used a heavy hand in some instances. He was very much the central (human) personality around which Calvary Chapel revolved. If you got close to Chuck you could rise quickly through the ranks. He said himself that his board of elders was there to rubberstamp his decisions and to take the heat if someone was critical. He had a large staff of pastors, and that's who you would generally talk to if you needed a pastor. Chuck, towards the end, taught an impermanent, 'lose-able' salvation, definitely against Scripture! So far, by your list, Calvary Chapel is a cult, if you want to spin it that way.

But having been pastored by Chuck, I would never call them a "cult".

Something that I find in my extremely limited experience of Hillsong is that they seem to have a faith in God and an sense of His glory that I find lacking in a lot of other places. Including a lot of Calvary Chapels.

But again, I know very little about them. If you want to post actual information of what Brian Houston teaches and does that makes them a cult, OK, otherwise, this seems a little like a witch hunt.

I've heard all kinds of stories myself, about Calvary Chapel.

So far, the most I know about the church is this handful of songs I listen to that proclaim God in a fresh and inspiring way, that is filled with faith, and wonder, and that lifts my spirit up into the heavens in awe and love of God. Now, if that's a bad church, I'd like to find a good one!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Brian Houston'd farher, Frank, came out of the AOG jn Auckland New Zealand. My brother in law in the 70s attended many of his meetings which were very popular. But what they were doing and teaching in those days were ridiculous. Like having people seated in rows on stage spitting demons into buckets. How do you come back from that?

Is that what Brian does?

Does he wear the shame for his father?

 

[marks]

Is one permitted to be a critical thinker when going to a Hillsong concert or do you have to leave your thinking mechanism at the door? Sure, the music is nice.. Relaxing... Emotional. But is that what it is for? Just to excite the emotions? To get people into some form of euphoria that is accepted as the 'presence of God' this satisfies the need for spiritual food... But how nutritious is it precisely? Just asking. Never been to one of their meeting... Our church has tried to introduce their music but without success, they are very difficult for a congregation to sing without the "mood". That "mood" I have experienced at rugby matches.

Actually, I find the music extremely useful in keeping me mindful of Godly truths that transform my life.

Such as . . .

Death could not hold You, the veil tore before You
You silenced the boast, of sin and grave
The heavens are roaring, the praise of Your glory
For You are raised to life again
You have no rival, You have no equal
Now and forever, Our God reigns
Yours is the Kingdom, Yours is the glory
Yours is the Name, above all names
What a powerful Name it is
What a powerful Name it is
The Name of Jesus Christ my King
What a powerful Name it is

I could sing this for hours!

Not euphoria that is accepted as the presence of God, it's euphoria that results from realizing we are in the presence of God. I've never experienced the same related to anything else.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I don't have a church.

Home church? Small study group? Meetings with a group of Christian friends?

Much love!

 

[Stan B]

I don't like wasting my time flogging a dead horse. The churches in my vicinity either want to do the same thing every week without fail. They avowedly refuse to entertain anything of the Holy Spirit. Only the Priest or pastor is allowed to exercise their gift so if you are not ordained (by man) up yours. What the denomination says is more important than what the Word of God says. There is no place for people who follow and teach the word of God.

marksman,
I have pretty much the same situation with local churches here, and haven't been to church in 3 years, although my mobility at age 78 is also a factor. I have spent two Christmases in the hospital after a December slip and fall on the ice.

But I do have a really great pastor 2000 km away in Florida, where our family tends to hang out a lot during the winter months. The pastor is Jeff Parish, Indian Rocks Baptist Church. His weekly sermons are available via internet, and has over 100 sermons archived online. I always learn something new from him with each sermon. My favourite archive is his series on Romans. I have listened to the complete series twice, and look up certain passages from time-to-time.

He is a charming Tenessee hillbilly with a PhD. When he doesn't understand certain Scriptural passages, he just says "I don't know, instead of trying to manufacture an answer.

On-Demand - Indian Rocks Baptist Church

 

[Brakelite]

Brakelite,

Frank Houston was born in Whanganui, New Zealand and was General Superintendent of the AoG NZ before he became General Superintendent of the AoG Australia.

Oz

Yep. He was a big wig in those days. Had the reputation and status of Oral Roberts and such... At least in NZ.

 

[Brakelite]

Is that what Brian does?

Does he wear the shame for his father?

I don't know. None thought his father was shameful in those days. Obviously wholly acceptable. Today they may not be. Today we have other issues to deal with. The devil doesn't stand still to put stumbling blocks and confusion in the way of Gods people , and the circles of Pentecostalism seem to entertain such confusion with more alacrity than others. Like rock concerts.

By the way, I spent nearly 20 years in the AOG. I'm not speakng out of the top of some else's hat.

 

[Nancy]

Actually, I find the music extremely useful in keeping me mindful of Godly truths that transform my life.

Such as . . .

Death could not hold You, the veil tore before You
You silenced the boast, of sin and grave
The heavens are roaring, the praise of Your glory
For You are raised to life again
You have no rival, You have no equal
Now and forever, Our God reigns
Yours is the Kingdom, Yours is the glory
Yours is the Name, above all names
What a powerful Name it is
What a powerful Name it is
The Name of Jesus Christ my King
What a powerful Name it is

I could sing this for hours!

Not euphoria that is accepted as the presence of God, it's euphoria that results from realizing we are in the presence of God. I've never experienced the same related to anything else.

Much love!

Amen Marks!
And, this happens to be one of my favorites by them

 

[Brakelite]

Only the Priest or pastor is allowed to exercise their gift

What self imposed restrictions have you placed upon your search? How far out of your current comfort zone are you willing to step? Are you sure that the holy Spirit isn't operating just as powerful in churches you haven't investigated, bit without the "song and dance" hoopla?

it's euphoria that results from realizing we are in the presence of God. I've never experienced the same related to anything else.

I've experienced the same. And yes, it's lovely... But honestly, how many people attend such events every Sunday for just that reason, and call it Christianity? In that context it just becomes a drug. For the new Christian I get it. It introduces them to an aspect of God's love that they would have never previously experienced... But going week after week for the "experience' is just narcissism. To grow in faith was interpreted as receiving greater "gifts". Now don't get me wrong I'm far from being a cessationist. My Adventist Church was founded upon prophecy, dreams and visions, but also deep all night Bible studies to confirm the visions. Adventist missionaries in certain instances experienced tongues. So I believe in the gifts. But those gifts were for a purpose. For the perfecting of the saints. For the proclamation of the Gospel. For the furtherance of the kingdom of God. Never for selfish exhibitionism as I saw and witnessed so often in the Pentecostal churches I attended, and in what I see today in recordings of meetings of popular televangelists. I don't wonder so many Christians today are disillusioned with the church. What passes for Christianity today is a fraud in many places, and sadly, hugely popular. Is that the case for Hillsong? I don't know. But I wouldn't use pleasant feelings as validation for the music or style of worship, regardless of how scripturally correct the lyrics may be... Even the devil can quote scripture and be scripturally correct. And you know he can sing.

 

[marks]

Amen Marks!
And, this happens to be one of my favorites by them

Why I think I'm going to listen right now! I need a lift this morning!

 

[Nancy]

Why I think I'm going to listen right now! I need a lift this morning!

Lol
I just got a Smart Speaker and loving it...Just ask Alexa to play what ever songs or albums I want to hear...easy peasy and the sound is wonderful!

PS
I hope you are lifted while praising Him, cause it's hard to be down when doing so!

 

[marks]

But honestly, how many people attend such events every Sunday for just that reason, and call it Christianity?

I don't know. I can't really think of anyone at my church that I would say fit that description.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But I wouldn't use pleasant feelings as validation for the music or style of worship, regardless of how scripturally correct the lyrics may be...

Not really what I was saying.

It's the Scriptural content of the lyrics that helps keep me mindful of God, and being mindful of God tends to fill one with rejoicing. That is if we aren't condemning ourselves.

Much love!

 

[farouk]

Lol
I just got a Smart Speaker and loving it...Just ask Alexa to play what ever songs or albums I want to hear...easy peasy and the sound is wonderful!

PS
I hope you are lifted while praising Him, cause it's hard to be down when doing so!

@Nancy I guess tastes in music can be very subjective.

Hillsong I guess is a bit like the Gaither concert that my wife went to...

 

[farouk]

My wife likes Gaither, anyway; does anyone else find it similar to Hillsong?

 

[farouk]

PS: Ppl's tastes in music - Christian music, even - are always going to be a bit subjective, anyway. Often it's what you are used to...

 

[Stan B]

My wife likes Gaither, anyway; does anyone else find it similar to Hillsong?

Although musically, I am an organist, I love Gaither music, find it spiritually uplifting, and listen to it on a regular basis.

I find the thought of listening to anything from Hillsong, totally repulsive.

 

[Brakelite]

Not really what I was saying.

It's the Scriptural content of the lyrics that helps keep me mindful of God, and being mindful of God tends to fill one with rejoicing. That is if we aren't condemning ourselves.

Much love!

By the way. I'm not against pleasure. God designed us to be receivers of pleasure.
KJV Psalms 16
11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

I do also enjoy Hillsong music. At its best it can be beautiful... As also are the Gaithers. The Isaacs, and believe it or not I have a soft spot for some good old southern country rock and roll on occasion. But my concern is this. If the music being presented is for the sole purpose of leading people into some ecstatic state of euphoria, as was the case when I was a worship leader in the AOG with 3 verse choruses being repeated 6 times, removing all objectivity and sense of reasoning, then my friend I believe we've gone down a wrong path. The drug becomes the focus. The pleasures become the goal. It becomes narcissistic. Selfish. And I think there is a great danger in that. It becomes a false gospel. You stop telling people about Jesus, and start telling them about the cool music.

 

[marksman]

What self imposed restrictions have you placed upon your search? How far out of your current comfort zone are you willing to step? Are you sure that the holy Spirit isn't operating just as powerful in churches you haven't investigated, bit without the "song and dance" hoopla?
I've experienced the same. And yes, it's lovely... But honestly, how many people attend such events every Sunday for just that reason, and call it Christianity? In that context it just becomes a drug. For the new Christian I get it. It introduces them to an aspect of God's love that they would have never previously experienced... But going week after week for the "experience' is just narcissism. To grow in faith was interpreted as receiving greater "gifts". Now don't get me wrong I'm far from being a cessationist. My Adventist Church was founded upon prophecy, dreams and visions, but also deep all night Bible studies to confirm the visions. Adventist missionaries in certain instances experienced tongues. So I believe in the gifts. But those gifts were for a purpose. For the perfecting of the saints. For the proclamation of the Gospel. For the furtherance of the kingdom of God. Never for selfish exhibitionism as I saw and witnessed so often in the Pentecostal churches I attended, and in what I see today in recordings of meetings of popular televangelists. I don't wonder so many Christians today are disillusioned with the church. What passes for Christianity today is a fraud in many places, and sadly, hugely popular. Is that the case for Hillsong? I don't know. But I wouldn't use pleasant feelings as validation for the music or style of worship, regardless of how scripturally correct the lyrics may be... Even the devil can quote scripture and be scripturally correct. And you know he can sing.

None.