Homosexual Church Dream

[CharismaticLady]

i dunno about there acts do you? the problem here is a ant hill has been turned into a mountain if they are homosexual then i would guss they have sx...i really don't know ..what about a couple that lives together outside of marriage what about there acts ?

What do you think? Isn't God against fornication as well as homosexuality? If you don't know what sx acts male and female homosexuals do, then you shouldn't be posting.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I haven't seen the book, nor do I want to.

I wouldn't want to at this point, either. Long time ago.

 

[JohnPaul]

John, what I was trying to say to your earlier was.."Check your attitude".

Do they 'creep me out'..yes. But I know three, I knew them when they were about 10 years old ..one here, one in UK and one in USA.

I cannot wrap my head around their desires and doings either ..something or someone warped their souls.

IF we "hate them" as individual people...woe unto us!!
God has a lot to say about that!

But like I said to someone just now..like it or not..we MUST love the person, while we hate the sin.
If we can't do that, we are in for big trouble.

They stand in need of redemption too. ✟

I was just going to say that Helen, hate the sin not the sinner, I worked with a couple of them at my last job, and never treated them hatefully or disrespect them.

 

[JohnPaul]

Helen you’re a good friend, thank you for setting my head straight sometimes my emotions run high, and when I read things like 12 year olds changing their sex and their parents are for it, it really gets my blood boiling.

 

[Helen]

Helen you’re a good friend, thank you for setting my head straight sometimes my emotions run high, and when I read things like 12 year olds changing their sex and their parents are for it, it really gets my blood boiling.

No worries bro...you are not alone...we just have to be careful to separate who that are individually , from the 'movement' itself collectively, which is 100% evil.

 

[shnarkle]

shnarkle, you are very difficult to talk to!

Try addressing what I'm actually posting instead of ignoring it, and posting misleading nonsense.

You didn't understand a thing that was said, and you took my comments out of context?

I pointed to the actual context which indicates that Lot's daughters were not raped. Go ahead and look at it yourself. Just because Lot thinks this is a good idea doesn't mean the bible is condoning it. You need to learn the difference between what the bible describes and what the bible prescribes.

1. Two examples in the Bible where men wanted to rape the visitors in the town, women were offered instead, with the exclamation, 'do not do such a detestable act, here, take the women..' (paraphrase). You interpret that as you like.

No interpretation is necessary when the fact remains that the bible isn't condoning the rape of women, nor are Lot's daughters ever raped.

2. God said to Peter, do not call unclean, what I have made clean.

Look at what Peter said to Cornelius' household: "Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean." Acts 10:28

There's Peter's interpretation. Show us all where the bible rejects Peter's interpretation.

The dietary laws ended,..

No, they didn't. Peter pointed out to Christ that he had never eaten anything unclean, and then while he's scratching his head wondering what this vision should mean, he hears a knock on his door. Coincidence? NOPE. He knows Christ isn't telling him to eat garbage, and by the time he gets to Cornelius' home, he understand the meaning of his vision.

By definition, a Symbol is a substitution, and cannot represent itself. Therefore God is not condoning the annulment of the dietary laws. If you can come up with ANY examples where this isn't the case, go for it.

I can't believe that I'm spelling this out for you?

You aren't spelling anything out. You're ignoring the actual interpretation presented in scripture.

1 Corinthians 8:8. But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

And swine, shellfish, etc. are not considered food to begin with. Nowhere does the bible refer any of that garbage as food. In fact, the only time the bible refers to food as unclean is when the food is going bad. When food rots, or it is not slaughtered correctly, then it is considered unclean or unfit for human consumption. Swine, shellfish, etc. are unclean "ANIMALS".

3. I'm talking about the OT, where these were capital crimes, as opposed to other interdictions that were not.

You're deflecting completely from the facts presented for your own edification.

Anyhow shnarkle, I'm sorry, you're not comprehending what I'm saying. You haven't addressed any point that I made in the correct context.

I've not only addressed your points, but refuted them as well. Obviously you have no intention of addressing that fact, or you would have by now. I've just taken each of your points, and refuted them AGAIN.

 

[Ezra]

What do you think? Isn't God against fornication as well as homosexuality? If you don't know what sx acts male and female homosexuals do, then you shouldn't be posting.

since your a expert maybe you could give detailed description personally i m not obsessed with the acts .. so please feel free to enlighten us

 

[Heart2Soul]

I was just going to say that Helen, hate the sin not the sinner, I worked with a couple of them at my last job, and never treated them hatefully or disrespect them.

Absolutely....I have spent many hours talking with my neighbor and asking questions and sharing my thoughts....I remember one night he went into great length explaining his homosexuality and that he has been like that since he was young....it wasn't lust or sexual pleasure that he was describing. It was simply that he was very feminine in his thinking and as a young boy he would watch a Disney movie such as Cinderella and imagine himself as Cinderella....not the Prince...and that was with any movie he watched....he shared that he has a very strong belief in God, he knows scripture (not always interpreting them accurately but he is only 22 so he is still growing)....at the end of a very long discussion and giving me a better understanding of his life he concluded with the question....."now that you have a better understanding do you still think it is a sin?:....
I said "to be honest...yes....but to be fair I think heterosexuals are equally sinning through sexual freedoms....fornication is a sin."
So he was happy with the fact that I wasn't one-sided or biased towards homosexuality as compared to other acts of sins of the flesh."
As time has gone by and we continue to have talks (I always plant seeds of His Truth when we do)...he has recently admitted that he is beginning to question and doubt his homosexuality....Praise God!.....

 

[Ezra]

Absolutely....I have spent many hours talking with my neighbor and asking questions and sharing my thoughts....I remember one night he went into great length explaining his homosexuality and that he has been like that since he was young....it wasn't lust or sexual pleasure that he was describing. It was simply that he was very feminine in his thinking and as a young boy he would watch a Disney movie such as Cinderella and imagine himself as Cinderella....not the Prince...and that was with any movie he watched....he shared that he has a very strong belief in God, he knows scripture (not always interpreting them accurately but he is only 22 so he is still growing)....at the end of a very long discussion and giving me a better understanding of his life he concluded with the question....."now that you have a better understanding do you still think it is a sin?:....
I said "to be honest...yes....but to be fair I think heterosexuals are equally sinning through sexual freedoms....fornication is a sin."
So he was happy with the fact that I wasn't one-sided or biased towards homosexuality as compared to other acts of sins of the flesh."
As time has gone by and we continue to have talks (I always plant seeds of His Truth when we do)...he has recently admitted that he is beginning to question and doubt his homosexuality....Praise God!.....

this is how to reach them . you speak your truth and listen to them .the Holy spirit is at work

 

[shnarkle]

Absolutely....I have spent many hours talking with my neighbor and asking questions and sharing my thoughts....I remember one night he went into great length explaining his homosexuality and that he has been like that since he was young....it wasn't lust or sexual pleasure that he was describing. It was simply that he was very feminine in his thinking and as a young boy he would watch a Disney movie such as Cinderella and imagine himself as Cinderella....not the Prince...and that was with any movie he watched....he shared that he has a very strong belief in God, he knows scripture (not always interpreting them accurately but he is only 22 so he is still growing)....at the end of a very long discussion and giving me a better understanding of his life he concluded with the question....."now that you have a better understanding do you still think it is a sin?:....
I said "to be honest...yes....but to be fair I think heterosexuals are equally sinning through sexual freedoms....fornication is a sin."
So he was happy with the fact that I wasn't one-sided or biased towards homosexuality as compared to other acts of sins of the flesh."
As time has gone by and we continue to have talks (I always plant seeds of His Truth when we do)...he has recently admitted that he is beginning to question and doubt his homosexuality....Praise God!.....

There's a Christian author who has a series of books out on the subject. I can't remember his name, but his books are quite good. He says one of the contributing factors to male homosexuality is a lack of affection from one's father. Young boys start looking for father substitutes for validation, even to the point of engaging in homosexual acts.

When I was in grade school and high school, I had a few friends who eventually came out of the closet. They were effeminate back then, but they weren't openly gay. They never acted disrespectfully toward me, or made me feel uncomfortable. They had lots of girlfriends, and my friendship with them allowed me access to all of their other friends as well. It was a sort of inadvertent bonus.

I've also known a few people who thought they might be gay, primarily because people told them that they thought they were gay so they acted upon the views of others, which only shows how society can pressure or influence people to do things they don't really need or want to do in the first place.

I spent over 20 years living in and around the San Francisco bay area, and after a very short time, I never noticed much of anything extraordinary about gay people. I saw a lot of misery because of how sick some of them became. There are a lot of misconceptions, and propaganda out there that the gay community spreads to sugar coat what's really going on.

The other thing I've noticed is that whenever I encounter someone who hates homosexuals, or is rabidly judgmental, it is always a case of homophobia, and that deep seated fear is a blatant expression of their own latent and unresolved homosexual tendencies. By definition phobias are irrational, and yet no one wants to look at that fact.

The sad thing about that is that the gay community doesn't acknowledge this fact themselves, but instead doles out their own brand of contempt and scorn. It's pathetic.

 

[DNB]

Thanks
I still contend that to God sin is sin. Why? Because the little few in the list I mentioned are all sins against LOVE...be it abortion , pedophilia, or anything else....
Jesus gave to us the way that we fulfill all His desire and laws ...love God and our neighbour.

But I do agree that where we are in this world age...homosexuality is on an epidemic scale...we agree there...

I see, agreed, of course. Without a doubt, as far as God is concerned, each and every one of us is reprobate, as far as committing even the slightest of sins is concerned (if there is actually a grade).
I think that just some of us have had it with the inclusive movement, that our outspokeness comes off as aggressive and hateful.
I'm mean, let's face it, as far as both God and myself is concerned, outside of Christ, I am a vile, defiant, irreverent and worthless dog, ...or was I being too delicate and compromising, ...probably?
So that, at least I'm not excusing, justifying or denying my sins (honestly, I probably was too mitigating in my list of crimes).

That's all, contextually speaking (in regard to the times), I say no tolerance, ...as far as attempting to save a sinner, like myself, I have all the time in the world, as long as I see honesty in the sinner. And I expect people to treat me the same way, that is, being tolerant until I start to show too much contempt and disregard for my behaviour.
Thanks!

 

[quietthinker]

Absolutely....I have spent many hours talking with my neighbor and asking questions and sharing my thoughts....I remember one night he went into great length explaining his homosexuality and that he has been like that since he was young....it wasn't lust or sexual pleasure that he was describing. It was simply that he was very feminine in his thinking and as a young boy he would watch a Disney movie such as Cinderella and imagine himself as Cinderella....not the Prince...and that was with any movie he watched....he shared that he has a very strong belief in God, he knows scripture (not always interpreting them accurately but he is only 22 so he is still growing)....at the end of a very long discussion and giving me a better understanding of his life he concluded with the question....."now that you have a better understanding do you still think it is a sin?:....
I said "to be honest...yes....but to be fair I think heterosexuals are equally sinning through sexual freedoms....fornication is a sin."
So he was happy with the fact that I wasn't one-sided or biased towards homosexuality as compared to other acts of sins of the flesh."
As time has gone by and we continue to have talks (I always plant seeds of His Truth when we do)...he has recently admitted that he is beginning to question and doubt his homosexuality....Praise God!.....

The human race is twisted and out of shape and far from the image of God he was made in. The degeneration has affected everything including our sexuality. Babies are born with the genitals of both sexes, others have deformities mentally and physically....I can go on.
Irrespective of the dysfunction it remains dysfunction whatever the situation.

I am heterosexual with a particularly strong sex drive but do I engage in inappropriate sex? do I justify acting out because of my orientation?...do I steal because the desired object is irresistible?
Homosexuality as is pedophilia and the whole raft of sexual deviations is a dysfunction/sin and no amount of mental gymnastics or clever arguments will change God's verdict. Those who justify acting out homosexually do so because they love their sin more than they love righteousness.

My responsibility is not to marginalise homosexuals any more than I would a liar or a religious nut or a greedy person. My responsibility is to recognise my own limitations and to not fudge the boundaries.

 

[DNB]

Try addressing what I'm actually posting instead of ignoring it, and posting misleading nonsense.
I pointed to the actual context which indicates that Lot's daughters were not raped. Go ahead and look at it yourself. Just because Lot thinks this is a good idea doesn't mean the bible is condoning it. You need to learn the difference between what the bible describes and what the bible prescribes.
No interpretation is necessary when the fact remains that the bible isn't condoning the rape of women, nor are Lot's daughters ever raped.
Look at what Peter said to Cornelius' household: "Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean." Acts 10:28

There's Peter's interpretation. Show us all where the bible rejects Peter's interpretation.

No, they didn't. Peter pointed out to Christ that he had never eaten anything unclean, and then while he's scratching his head wondering what this vision should mean, he hears a knock on his door. Coincidence? NOPE. He knows Christ isn't telling him to eat garbage, and by the time he gets to Cornelius' home, he understand the meaning of his vision.

By definition, a Symbol is a substitution, and cannot represent itself. Therefore God is not condoning the annulment of the dietary laws. If you can come up with ANY examples where this isn't the case, go for it.
You aren't spelling anything out. You're ignoring the actual interpretation presented in scripture.

And swine, shellfish, etc. are not considered food to begin with. Nowhere does the bible refer any of that garbage as food. In fact, the only time the bible refers to food as unclean is when the food is going bad. When food rots, or it is not slaughtered correctly, then it is considered unclean or unfit for human consumption. Swine, shellfish, etc. are unclean "ANIMALS".
You're deflecting completely from the facts presented for your own edification.
I've not only addressed your points, but refuted them as well. Obviously you have no intention of addressing that fact, or you would have by now. I've just taken each of your points, and refuted them AGAIN.

I give up shnarkle.
I would appreciate it if you take that misquote of mine, out of your signature.
I said that, that was the sentiment in the two cases, which it was. The fact that they made the proposal, showed that in their eyes it was more egregious to perform one act, than the other. In the case of Judges 19, they actually did give up the concubine to the rapists. That's all that my point was, it was an implicit passage revealing that the common sentiment of the time was homosexuality, in any context, was worse than a heterosexual act, in the same context, either rape or consent. It was a supplementary point to my other, more explicit and fundamental arguments against homosexuality.
I care not to engage with you anymore because I find you too difficult, and I will report you if you don't take that misquote out of your signature!

 

[DNB]

The human race is twisted and out of shape and far from the image of God he was made in. The degeneration has affected everything including our sexuality. Babies are born with the genitals of both sexes, others have deformities mentally and physically....I can go on.
Irrespective of the dysfunction it remains dysfunction whatever the situation.

I am heterosexual with a particularly strong sex drive but do I engage in inappropriate sex? do I justify acting out because of my orientation?...do I steal because the desired object is irresistible?
Homosexuality as is pedophilia and the whole raft of sexual deviations is a dysfunction/sin and no amount of mental gymnastics or clever arguments will change God's verdict. Those who justify acting out homosexually do so because they love their sin more than they love righteousness.

My responsibility is not to marginalise homosexuals any more than I would a liar or a religious nut or a greedy person. My responsibility is to recognise my own limitations and to not fudge the boundaries.

Very well said!

 

[Heart2Soul]

The human race is twisted and out of shape and far from the image of God he was made in. The degeneration has affected everything including our sexuality. Babies are born with the genitals of both sexes, others have deformities mentally and physically....I can go on.
Irrespective of the dysfunction it remains dysfunction whatever the situation.

I am heterosexual with a particularly strong sex drive but do I engage in inappropriate sex? do I justify acting out because of my orientation?...do I steal because the desired object is irresistible?
Homosexuality as is pedophilia and the whole raft of sexual deviations is a dysfunction/sin and no amount of mental gymnastics or clever arguments will change God's verdict. Those who justify acting out homosexually do so because they love their sin more than they love righteousness.

My responsibility is not to marginalise homosexuals any more than I would a liar or a religious nut or a greedy person. My responsibility is to recognise my own limitations and to not fudge the boundaries.

Well now that you have exalted yourself so highly above others.. lol....can you share with us what it's like to be so perfect?

 

[CharismaticLady]

since your a expert maybe you could give detailed description personally i m not obsessed with the acts .. so please feel free to enlighten us

I don't have to. There are plenty of people that know what I'm talking about to discuss why they are abominable acts, even inside a marriage.

 

[quietthinker]

Well now that you have exalted yourself so highly above others.. lol....can you share with us what it's like to be so perfect?

I am surprised to hear you make this comment H2S. This is not about self exaltation. This is about getting a healthy perspective.

 

[DNB]

Really? Perhaps the marriage rates are going up in your country then but here it accepted that people will live together without benefit of a marriage ceremony. And this is totally accepted even though it doesn't cause such a knee-jerk reaction as gay people might do.

Again Pearl, you're correct about other sins being overlooked. But this one had a death sentence, and now the Church has allowed it in the clergy as acceptable, 7 year old children are having sex changes, many commit suicide due to the conflict and utter confusion that it elicits in one's mind (like any act of sin, but this one more).
This is serious Pearl!
I don't hate them, and the very few that i know (through other people), know that. But, still, I completely abhor their choice and lifestyle.

 

[Heart2Soul]

There's a Christian author who has a series of books out on the subject. I can't remember his name, but his books are quite good. He says one of the contributing factors to male homosexuality is a lack of affection from one's father. Young boys start looking for father substitutes for validation, even to the point of engaging in homosexual acts.

When I was in grade school and high school, I had a few friends who eventually came out of the closet. They were effeminate back then, but they weren't openly gay. They never acted disrespectfully toward me, or made me feel uncomfortable. They had lots of girlfriends, and my friendship with them allowed me access to all of their other friends as well. It was a sort of inadvertent bonus.

I've also known a few people who thought they might be gay, primarily because people told them that they thought they were gay so they acted upon the views of others, which only shows how society can pressure or influence people to do things they don't really need or want to do in the first place.

I spent over 20 years living in and around the San Francisco bay area, and after a very short time, I never noticed much of anything extraordinary about gay people. I saw a lot of misery because of how sick some of them became. There are a lot of misconceptions, and propaganda out there that the gay community spreads to sugar coat what's really going on.

The other thing I've noticed is that whenever I encounter someone who hates homosexuals, or is rabidly judgmental, it is always a case of homophobia, and that deep seated fear is a blatant expression of their own latent and unresolved homosexual tendencies. By definition phobias are irrational, and yet no one wants to look at that fact.

The sad thing about that is that the gay community doesn't acknowledge this fact themselves, but instead doles out their own brand of contempt and scorn. It's pathetic.

I admitted to him that years ago I was homophobic...I was so afraid if one touched me that the demon would transfer to me....very bad teaching from the pulpit back then...and I remember the pastor saying it was a demonic spirit controlling this desire.
I do believe demons can attach themselves to our flesh and cause us to become bound up in fleshly lusts....even people who obsessively perform acts such as washing there hands constantly because of their fear of germs are supposedly bound by a controlling spirit...

 

[DNB]

Kama Sutra is really just a manual on different positions. You think might be getting a little too strict here. If anything but missionary is "unholy," this might be putting to high a restrictions on how "sacredness" in the marriage bed is defined myself.

No, my point was that if it has to be taught, then it's not derived from admiration and affection. It should never be mechanical and about the organs, it's about the person.