Honor Your Mother/Hate Your Mother?

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stunnedbygrace

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I know these verses go together.

Honor your mother.
Hate your mother. (And even your own life).
Who is my mother and brother?
Let the dead bury their own dead.

I know they GO together but I can’t PUT them together. They aren’t IN me in an integrated understanding. As my friend would say, I’m a half baked cake in this matter, a cake not turned yet. I don’t have the balance.

Any help?
 
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Robert Gwin

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I know these verses go together.

Honor your mother.
Hate your mother. (And even your own life).
Who is my mother and brother?
Let the dead bury their own dead.

I know they GO together but I can’t PUT them together. They aren’t IN me in an integrated understanding. As my friend would say, I’m a half baked cake in this matter, a cake not turned yet. I don’t have the balance.

Any help?

Many times when used in the Bible Grace, it means less than. In other words you must place Jehovah above your mother, above all things in fact. He comes first, that is what hate means in that instance.
 
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Behold

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I know these verses go together.

Honor your mother.
Hate your mother. (And even your own life).
Who is my mother and brother?
Let the dead bury their own dead.I know they GO together but I can’t PUT them together. They aren’t IN me in an integrated understanding. As my friend would say, I’m a half baked cake in this matter, a cake not turned yet. I don’t have the balance.Any help?


Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, ... as a distinction from how we love people, which is different.
 

Lambano

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If you'll forgive me for answering a question with a question, where and when should each be applied?

(Like Proverbs 26:4-5. Still one of my favorite couplets.)
 
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stunnedbygrace

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If you'll forgive me for answering a question with a question, where and when should each be applied?

(Like Proverbs 26:4-5. Still one of my favorite couplets.)

Ah…yes, that passage again. I never explained to you what I think it means because you never asked.
You seem to think it means to sometimes do it and other times not to do it? Sometimes apply it and other times not? I don’t see it that way…although I can see that some might say…first, determine whether you are speaking with swine. If you are, don’t throw pearls before them and if you aren’t, throw pearls before them. I don’t think that’s a correct tying together but I can see that someone’s mind might come up with that.
There’s a “never” in there and there’s an “always” in there.
Never answer a fool according to his folly.
Always answer a fool according to his folly.
 
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BeyondET

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Ah…yes, that passage again. I never explained to you what I think it means because you never asked.
You seem to think it means to sometimes do it and other times not to do it? Sometimes apply it and other times not? I don’t see it that way…although I can see that some might say…first, determine whether you are speaking with swine. If you are, don’t throw pearls before them and if you aren’t, throw pearls before them. I don’t think that’s a correct tying together but I can see that someone’s mind might come up with that.
There’s a “never” in there and there’s an “always” in there.
Never answer a fool according to his folly.
Always answer a fool according to his folly.
Is your glass half empty or half full?
 

stunnedbygrace

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Ah…yes, that passage again. I never explained to you what I think it means because you never asked.
You seem to think it means to sometimes do it and other times not to do it? Sometimes apply it and other times not? I don’t see it that way…although I can see that some might say…first, determine whether you are speaking with swine. If you are, don’t throw pearls before them and if you aren’t, throw pearls before them. I don’t think that’s a correct tying together but I can see that someone’s mind might come up with that.
There’s a “never” in there and there’s an “always” in there.
Never answer a fool according to his folly.
Always answer a fool according to his folly.

I never did feel inclined to tell you what I thought it meant since you never asked but I do feel inclined suddenly. :)
Here’s what I think it means:
Never answer a fool using the foolish way he chooses to converse. Don’t enter into his useless tactics and foolish or arrogant manner or you will be as foolish as he is. Always answer him though, to try to help him to see how foolish he is being because if you were to fail to answer his foolish manner, he would think himself so wise and his foolish tactics so good that no one one could answer with true wisdom.
In other words, always answer a man being foolish but don’t do so in the same foolish way as he chooses to act.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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If you'll forgive me for answering a question with a question, where and when should each be applied?

(Like Proverbs 26:4-5. Still one of my favorite couplets.)

Anyway, it can’t be sometimes hating my mother and sometimes loving my mother and knowing when to do which. I mean…that CANT be it…right?

And the other answers given, I don’t think they explain it either.
 

stunnedbygrace

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It’s rattling around and almost coming into focus.
If someone were to say, your mother is outside asking for you and I said, who is my mother? Would others not see that as not honoring her?
 
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stunnedbygrace

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And I do hate this world, myself, the stupid ways we were all taught to act, all the jockeying to control each other and have everyone do as we would like them to. The manipulation and attempts to control others. All the false masks and seeking for each other’s approval while hiding our true selves. It’s so disgusting and useless. And mental and emotional manipulations to gain control, the upper hand. All the false ways. I do not hate my mother, I hate her false and fake ways. I’m becoming…more and more untethered from it all. I do not like it, love it or want it. I despise it. It harms and never helps.
 

Nancy

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I never did feel inclined to tell you what I thought it meant since you never asked but I do feel inclined suddenly. :)
Here’s what I think it means:
Never answer a fool using the foolish way he chooses to converse. Don’t enter into his useless tactics and foolish or arrogant manner or you will be as foolish as he is. Always answer him though, to try to help him to see how foolish he is being because if you were to fail to answer his foolish manner, he would think himself so wise that no one one could answer with true wisdom.
In other words, always answer a man being foolish but don’t do so in the same foolish way as he chooses to act.
Gotta say that is the best answer to those verses I have ever heard. Never could grasp it so I've left it alone all these years, not sure your view is correct or not, but it explains it better than any I've heard to date.
 

Nancy

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And I do hate this world, myself, the stupid ways we were all taught to act, all the jockeying to control each other and have everyone do as we would like them to. The manipulation and attempts to control others. All the false masks and seeking for each other’s approval while hiding our true selves. It’s so disgusting and useless. And mental and emotional manipulations to gain control, the upper hand. All the false ways. I do not hate my mother, I hate her false and fake ways. I’m becoming…more and more untethered from it all. I do not like it, love it or want it. I despise it. It harms and never helps.

We are such a product of our upbringing, society, media...under the thumbs of those who want to drag us into the gutter with them. I too hate this world and struggle with liking myself all the time but, with all the abuse of others, it has become much easier to see them coming like when someone you do not knw, but just met wants to become fast friends for instance...that is a huge red flag to me, fool me once...
Your situation is really at this time, impossible to be removed from but, you yourself are "untethering" yourself more and more. Hang on Jen, you are one of the strongest people I know.

Really sorry that plans to come see you fell through...just not the right time so now I am shooting for Spring, if God will make the path smooth.

 

stunnedbygrace

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We are such a product of our upbringing, society, media...under the thumbs of those who want to drag us into the gutter with them. I too hate this world and struggle with liking myself all the time but, with all the abuse of others, it has become much easier to see them coming like when someone you do not knw, but just met wants to become fast friends for instance...that is a huge red flag to me, fool me once...
Your situation is really at this time, impossible to be removed from but, you yourself are "untethering" yourself more and more. Hang on Jen, you are one of the strongest people I know.

Really sorry that plans to come see you fell through...just not the right time so now I am shooting for Spring, if God will make the path smooth.

But see, all the world is under the control of satan. HE is the one who manipulates all this. He manipulates people and then they manipulate others in the same manner as they are manipulated. HE does it.

Ive read that covert narcissists don’t know what they’re doing but I think I strongly disagree with that. If they didn’t know they were manipulating others, why would they do it in covert, passive aggressive ways? If they didn’t know what they were doing was evil, they wouldn’t try to hide it and obfuscate to maintain plausible deniability in case someone called them on their crap.
Still though, who can ever break with all these false ways UNLESS God showed them mercy and opened their eyes to it all? So…on one hand they know what they’re doing and know it is evil. On the other hand…they don’t know anything else than the false ways and cannot help themselves out of it.

If everyone on earth was born with only one arm, a man born with two would be thought horribly deformed, even though he would be more capable in many ways. In a similar way, if I speak truthfully to my sister about what mom does, I’m seen as a liar and a problem, even though I have been truthful and she is the one with false ways. So,you see, my seeing cannot help anyone. I just have to leave it all. I have to give up even trying to help anyone, no matter how badly I wish healing for them.

I wondered the other day, why do I want to walk in the Spirit? It’s because I want to help people and see them healed and mentally and emotionally healthy. Maybe I have not walked in the Spirit because it’s the wrong motive…
 
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stunnedbygrace

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We are such a product of our upbringing, society, media...under the thumbs of those who want to drag us into the gutter with them. I too hate this world and struggle with liking myself all the time but, with all the abuse of others, it has become much easier to see them coming like when someone you do not knw, but just met wants to become fast friends for instance...that is a huge red flag to me, fool me once...
Your situation is really at this time, impossible to be removed from but, you yourself are "untethering" yourself more and more. Hang on Jen, you are one of the strongest people I know.

Really sorry that plans to come see you fell through...just not the right time so now I am shooting for Spring, if God will make the path smooth.

We will get together. I’m pretty sure of it. And when we do, it will be perfect timing. :)
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I forgot to say, that is a huge red flag, yes. Wanting to be besties immediately. It’s the way people learn about how to manipulate you, personally. By getting you to be terribly forthcoming and appearing to mirror back to you a false persona of their own while you are meanwhile thinking they are being as forthcoming with you when all they’re doing is gathering info on how to snag you. It is one of the red flags mentioned over and over again in all I’ve read on narcissism.
 
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Nancy

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But see, all the world is under the control of satan. HE is the one who manipulates all this. He manipulates people and then they manipulate others in the same manner as they are manipulated. HE does it.

Ive read that covert narcissists don’t know what they’re doing but I think I strongly disagree with that. If they didn’t know they were manipulating others, why would they do it in covert, passive aggressive ways? If they didn’t know what they were doing was evil, they wouldn’t try to hide it and obfuscate to maintain plausible deniability in case someone called them on their crap.
Still though, who can ever break with all these false ways UNLESS God showed them mercy and opened their eyes to it all? So…on one hand they know what they’re doing and know it is evil. On the other hand…they don’t know anything else than the false ways and cannot help themselves out of it.

If everyone on earth was born with only one arm, a man born with two would be thought horribly deformed, even though he would be more capable in many ways. In a similar way, if I speak truthfully to my sister about what mom does, I’m seen as a liar and a problem, even though I have been truthful and she is the one with false ways. So,you see, my seeing cannot help anyone. I just have to leave it all. I have to give up even trying to help anyone, no matter how badly I wish healing for them.

I wondered the other day, why do I want to walk in the Spirit? It’s because I want to help people and see them healed and mentally and emotionally healthy. Maybe I have not walked in the Spirit because it’s the wrong motive…

Sure is, Satan is still the god of this world. He's behind all evil that men do...he runs this world and people in it, it becomes more and more transparent what with education, big corporations, politics, big money, and especially the church's today; most of them anyhow.
I also disagree that narcissists are ignorant of their schemes...it takes much thought and planning to manipulate on that level...I've known personally two narcissists in my life and man, I wanted nothing but a whole lot of space between them and me. They may know what they are doing but, it is so ingrained in them they cannot seem to stop being that manipulative person. I think "this kind comes out only by fasting and prayer" (or an exorcist! Ha)

Your sister is also a product of your mom and seems your mom has her over a barrel. I don't remember if your sister is saved or not but, my guess is that she is not? I think you are right to leave it all and give it to God for good (hard as that might be)

Your motive for wanting to walk in the Spirit is commendable, not wrong IMO. So what if it would benefit you too, and bring you long lost peace in your daily life? Healing and eye opening for then (humility too) and deliverance for you.
I am going to pray as fervently as I can about your mom, sister and yourself sister!
 

Nancy

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I forgot to say, that is a huge red flag, yes. Wanting to be besties immediately. It’s the way people learn about how to manipulate you, personally. By getting you to be terribly forthcoming and appearing to mirror back to you a false persona of their own while you are meanwhile thinking they are being as forthcoming with you when all they’re doing is gathering info on how to snag you. It is one of the red flags mentioned over and over again in all I’ve read on narcissism.

Ignoring those red flags will bring all sorts of evil, I know as I have ignored too many of them thinking I was doing the right thing in helping out several folks I allowed to live in my home for very little in payment. Every last one of them...manipulators. Now, I hope I have not gone the totally opposite way in not trusting anyone at all...God's is showing me and I will not be a doormat for ANYONE anymore. Wow what a lesson learned.
 
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MatthewG

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Hello Stunned by grace, looked all these up for you all the accounts that you addressed in your original post for easy reading to look at them. From Ephesians, Luke, Matthew. Hope you can find them to be of use to you.

Ephesians 6:2-3
New King James Version

2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: 3 “that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.”

Luke 14:25-33
Leaving All to Follow Christ


25 Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, 26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it— 29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him,30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. 33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.​

Another Account: Matthew 10:34-39
Speaking to his disciples at the time;

Christ Brings Division


34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his ownhousehold.’ 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
Matthew 12:46-50
New International Version

Jesus’ Mother and Brothers
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothersstood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?”49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

Luke 9:51-62
A Samaritan Village Rejects the Savior

51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up, that He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem, 52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him. 53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?”

55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.” And they went to another village.

The Cost of Discipleship
57 Now it happened as they journeyed on the road, that someone said to Him, “Lord, I will follow You wherever You go.”

58 And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air havenests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.”

59 Then He said to another, “Follow Me.”

But he said, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.”

60 Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God.”

61 And another also said, “Lord, I will follow You, but let me first go andbid them farewell who are at my house.”

62 But Jesus said to him, “No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”

 

Lambano

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Anyway, it can’t be sometimes hating my mother and sometimes loving my mother and knowing when to do which. I mean…that CANT be it…right?

And the other answers given, I don’t think they explain it either.
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven...
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

(Ecclesiastes 3:1-8)

Yes, it's knowing WHEN, and just as important, HOW to "hate". This is NOT simple, and it takes wisdom.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven...
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

(Ecclesiastes 3:1-8)

Yes, it's knowing WHEN, and just as important, HOW to "hate". This is NOT simple, and it takes wisdom.

Is flesh and blood my enemy that I should hate a flesh and blood person? I can hate what they do but I no longer have hate for them. I just don’t. Maybe you don’t either, since you put quote marks around the word “hate.” I have to guess because you made statements but didn’t explain them.