How can your tears be wiped away (Rev 21:4) by Jesus when he is simultaneously...

[Patrick1966]

...torturing your child (for example) FOREVER in "Hell"?


Revelation 21:4 CLNT
4 And He will be brushing away every tear from their eyes. And death will be no more, nor mourning, nor clamor, nor misery; they will be no more, for the former things passed away."

@St. SteVen

 

[Stumpmaster]

...torturing your child (for example) FOREVER in "Hell"?


Revelation 21:4 CLNT
4 And He will be brushing away every tear from their eyes. And death will be no more, nor mourning, nor clamor, nor misery; they will be no more, for the former things passed away."

@St. SteVen

It's legal.

 

[TLHKAJ]

...torturing your child (for example) FOREVER in "Hell"?


Revelation 21:4 CLNT
4 And He will be brushing away every tear from their eyes. And death will be no more, nor mourning, nor clamor, nor misery; they will be no more, for the former things passed away."

@St. SteVen

God doesn't torment anyone, ever. Hell was created for satan and his fallen angels. But hell has enlarged itself to accommodate all those who CHOOSE to reject the FREE GIFT of salvation through Jesus Christ, and instead CHOOSE to follow their own ways and serve satan.

Ezekiel 33:11
[11]Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Deuteronomy 30:19-20
[19]I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
[20]That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Joshua 24:15
[15]And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Isaiah 53:1-12
[1]Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
[2]For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
[3]He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
[4]Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
[5]But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
[6]All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
[7]He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
[8]He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
[9]And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
[10]Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
[11]He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
[12]Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Those that reject God choose hell!!

 

[St. SteVen]

God doesn't torment anyone, ever. Hell was created for satan and his fallen angels.

First you said... "God doesn't torment anyone, ever." Never, you say? Okay.

But hell has enlarged itself to accommodate all those who

Hell has enlarged itself? As if it has a mind of its own? ??? Wow, seriously?

If there is a forever burning hell, who created it? Probably the maker of ALL things.
And devised the unspeakable torture? Worse than anything committed by any human in history.
Makes the holocaust look like a Sunday school picnic by comparison. God did that? (nope)

But hell has enlarged itself to accommodate all those who CHOOSE to reject the FREE GIFT of salvation

Then you said... (see quote above)
What became of "God doesn't torment anyone, ever." ???

But hell has enlarged itself to accommodate all those who CHOOSE to reject the FREE GIFT of salvation through Jesus Christ, and instead CHOOSE to follow their own ways and serve satan.

Seriously?
How can it be a "FREE GIFT" if the consequences for not receiving it is eternal torment?
Not really a choice. More like extortion. Believe, or burn. --- Feel the love.

Obviously, that can't be right.
Did Jesus die to save you from God?

@Patrick1966

 

[TLHKAJ]

Hell has enlarged itself? As if it has a mind of its own? ??? Wow, seriously?

Isaiah 5:14-24
[14]Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
[15]And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:
[16]But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.
[17]Then shall the lambs feed after their manner, and the waste places of the fat ones shall strangers eat.
[18]Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:
[19]That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it!
[20]Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
[21]Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
[22]Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
[23]Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
[24]Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

 

[TLHKAJ]

First you said... "God doesn't torment anyone, ever." Never, you say? Okay.

Hell has enlarged itself? As if it has a mind of its own? ??? Wow, seriously?

If there is a forever burning hell, who created it? Probably the maker of ALL things.
And devised the unspeakable torture? Worse than anything committed by any human in history.
Makes the holocaust look like a Sunday school picnic by comparison. God did that? (nope)

Then you said... (see quote above)
What became of "God doesn't torment anyone, ever." ???

Seriously?
How can it be a "FREE GIFT" if the consequences for not receiving it is eternal torment?
Not really a choice. More like extortion. Believe, or burn. --- Feel the love.

Obviously, that can't be right.
Did Jesus die to save you from God?

@Patrick1966

Do you suppose God should allow unrepentant pedophiles and murderers in His kingdom? It's your choice to choose ....life or death, blessing or cursing. You choose.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Matthew 7:6
[6]Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

 

[Patrick1966]

God doesn't torment anyone, ever.

Revelation 14:11 ESV​

And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

 

[Patrick1966]

Matthew 7:6
[6]Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Why are you angry and why are you calling your fellow brothers in Christ dogs and pigs?

 

[Patrick1966]

Do you suppose God should allow unrepentant pedophiles and murderers in His kingdom? It's your choice to choose ....life or death, blessing or cursing. You choose.

What do you believe is the PURPOSE of the "Lake of Fire"?

 

[St. SteVen]

Do you suppose God should allow unrepentant pedophiles and murderers in His kingdom? It's your choice to choose ....life or death, blessing or cursing. You choose.

Does God grade sin on a curve?
Less time in hell for "little white lies"? Opposed to BIG FAT lies. - LOL
Moses was a murderer. Do you expect to find him in heaven?

 

[TLHKAJ]

Revelation 14:11 ESV​

And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

Notice it says the smoke of their torment. Nowhere does it mention God is there tormenting them. These people are given opportunity after opportunity to choose God.

 

[Gottservant]

...torturing your child (for example) FOREVER in "Hell"?

[...]

Once people realise they are in Hell, there is an infinite desire to stop sinning (even in Hell). Babies and children are particularly good at stopping sinning, because they have no investment in a life of sin (at their age). So, the idea that God is torturing them (as you would assume, for their sin) does not come about.

What good is Hell, then? It keeps people who want to sin, for no reason, in a place where they can easily be reminded of God's Glory. It's too late for them to change their ways, without dying - but even then they are able to die to themselves, albeit missing out on Earth in the process, but also the suffering that goes with it (when they die to themselves).

In the end, babies rejoice with other babies and children rejoice with other children, Heaven is about what we do together, after all!

 

[St. SteVen]

Notice it says the smoke of their torment. Nowhere does it mention God is there tormenting them. These people are given opportunity after opportunity to choose God.

Hell is such a hot potato. - LOL

Who created the hell you believe in; God. or humankind?
God is the creator of all things, right? But not hell?

You can't claim a forever burning hell with no hope of escape,
and then blame the victims for their sadistic torment.

cc: @Patrick1966

 

[St. SteVen]

These people are given opportunity after opportunity to choose God.

Seriously?
Countless billions have gone to the afterlife with no knowledge of Jesus Christ whatsoever.
What becomes of them? Or of the mentally handicapped? Or aborted children? Or... ???

 

[Aunty Jane]

What do you believe is the PURPOSE of the "Lake of Fire"?

It is important to understand that the Bible does not speak about immediate life after death. Rather than in immortal soul.....in the Bible a “soul” is a living breathing creature, both man and animals. The word “soul” basically means ‘a breather’. Nowhere is it said that God gives humans a soul, but rather that Adam “became“ a “soul” when God gave him “the breath of life”.

So according to scripture, there is life and death.....and nothing in between. What the Bible teaches is resurrection....which is a return to life, not a continuation of it in another form, somewhere else.

There are several words that are translated “Hell” in the Bible, but none of them mean conscious existence in torment or fire. Not a single penalty under God’s law required torture or flames.
The Hebrew “Sheol” has a Greek equivalent, “hades” and have the thought of “the abode of the dead”.
In the Jewish Tanakh “Sheol” is translated “grave”. Everyone goes to this place without exception. (Eccl 9:5, 10) No soul is conscious in this place.

But then there is “Gehenna”....this is another name for the “lake of fire”. But there is no real fire....there is just unending death. Gehenna is a place from which the dead are not resurrected.
If there is no immortal soul, there is no need to invent places for them to go, not to mention the fact that God is not a fiend who enjoys tormenting anyone, let alone roasting them in flames forever.....what kind of loving God would do that? He gives us the choice of either life or death.....that’s it.

 

[Only One King]

Hi,

I cannot help but believe that the reason God will have to wipe away our tears is because the joy of His grace, love and acceptance of us will be so overwhelming that we will not have the power to stop crying. He will have to step in and do it for us

Be blessed

 

[Only One King]

...torturing your child (for example) FOREVER in "Hell"?


Revelation 21:4 CLNT
4 And He will be brushing away every tear from their eyes. And death will be no more, nor mourning, nor clamor, nor misery; they will be no more, for the former things passed away."

@St. SteVen

Hi,
I cannot help but believe that the reason God will have to wipe away our tears is because the joy of His grace, love and acceptance of us will be so overwhelming that we will not have the power to stop crying. He will have to step in and do it for us
Be blessed

 

[Only One King]

...torturing your child (for example) FOREVER in "Hell"?


Revelation 21:4 CLNT
4 And He will be brushing away every tear from their eyes. And death will be no more, nor mourning, nor clamor, nor misery; they will be no more, for the former things passed away."

@St. SteVen

Children will not be in hell.
When King David lost his first child he said in reference to the child...... He cannot come to me but I will go to him.