How do you reconcile "the gates of Hell will NOT prevail" with Satan supposedly taking most of mankind to Hell with him?
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Matt 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it.
The question is not how many people end up in hell, but has the Church, that is the whole company of believers, living and in glory, have they been beaten by hell?
Hell is death. Jesus was saying that Death will not prevail. But, most Christians are taught (and believe) that the majority (vast majority) of people are going to "eternal" damnation.
Of course, that is a false doctrine taught by Christian leaders that lack discernment and understanding.
The Gates of Hell will NOT prevail because, in the end, Jesus will defeat death and then ALL people who have ever lived will be "under his feet" and then ALL will be given to God the Father, according to 1 Corinthians 15.
Well, one cannot become a believer unless God permits them to become a believer.
John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father".
Is it your belief that God precludes most people from becoming a believer and that he then punishes them for eternity because they didn't become a believer?
Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.'
Amen Jesus!
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.'
Amen Jesus!
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Normally I have "Jack" on ignore. Jack doesn't understand that the verses that he provided are MISTRANSLATIONS. Most English translations of the Bible are GARBAGE.
Universalism is Satanic GARBAGE leading people to Hell! And you're not qualified to call our Bibles GARBAGE!
"Most English translations of the Bible are GARBAGE."
Remember you said that. God will on Judgment Day. The blood of everyone you lead to Hell with Universalism will be on your hands.
Every Bible I know of says you're wrong. And you are not qualified to rewrite our Bible. You must not have much left in your Bible.
Jude 1
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
I doubt if you even know that's in the Bible.
Those places aren't burning today so it's obviously not "eternal".
Here's Jude 1:7 using Young's Literal Translation:
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before -- an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
The gates in question don't prevail against God's ekklesia, but those who aren't in God's ekklesia have no choice but to pass through them to Hades.
You see, the burning of those two cities was for a period of time or "age-during", not "eternity".
The problem with most English Bible translations is that garbage translations create garbage doctrines, such as "eternal" punishment.
The problem with most English Bible translations is that garbage translations create garbage doctrines, such as "eternal" punishment.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
That's a good question.
Why would God punish those he didn't draw to himself by his Spirit?
Why blame the victim?
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Interesting topic, thanks.
There is a bit of mystery in Jesus' use of the term "gates of hell".
And a lot of misunderstanding, or differences of opinion about what it means when "the gates will not prevail".
A gate is a structure, or more specifically, a door on a structure.
Typically the entrance in a wall that can be opened, or closed.
Open to allow entry, closed to prevent entry.
A seemingly impenetrable door. (as long as it prevails)
Sorry to be so basic with this.
But if we don't back up a bit, we can't hope to understand this.
So, when a fortress is attacked, the gates prevent the enemy from getting in.
That is, as long as the gates prevail to prevent entry.
Jesus said he would build his church, and the gates of hell would not prevail against it.
So, whatever your definition of hell is, the gates will not prevent the building of his church.
As a former evangelical, I believed that this meant that we, the church,
had the strength in Christ to storm the gates of hell to build the church.
Which meant that we had the authority as the church to assist in the conversion
of those under the power of the enemy. The gates of hell would not prevail.
As a Christian Universalist, I expand that into the realm of the dead.
And as a former evangelical, I already believed this to some extent.
It's even in the Creed. Jesus "descended into hell and rose the third day".
And the Bible tells us that he "preached" to them and "took captives".
If it happened once, it can happen again.
More to say on all this. But enough for now.
You like YLT? Enjoy.
Luke 16:22-24 (YLT)
22 `And it came to pass, that the poor man died, and that he was carried away by the messengers to the bosom of Abraham--and the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 and in the hades having lifted up his eyes, being in torments, he doth see Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom, 24 and having cried, he said, Father Abraham, deal kindly with me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and may cool my tongue, because I am distressed in this flame.
So sad that you don't believe in everlasting life!
John 3:16 (YLT)
16 for God did so love the world, that His Son--the only begotten--He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
Patrick's a Greek Language expert. He knows more than our many Bible translators.
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Yes, Jesus had said he would his church and the gates of Hell would not prevail. But what does that really mean? I believe the proper definition of "Hell" is death but Jesus was speaking figuratively and so he may have been referring to Satan and/or evil. I believe the deeper meaning is that death/Satan/evil will not prevail because Jesus will break down (so to speak) its "gates" and save ALL, even Satan. ALL will bend the knee. ALL will pledge loyalty to Jesus!
Rev 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
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