How Does Jesus Save?

[Robert Pate]

Almost everyone believes that Jesus is the savior. The question is how does Jesus save us?

Catholics believe that Jesus saves them by doing something in them (Holiness). The Bible does not teach that. The Bible teaches that we are born into sin, King David wrote, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me" Psalm 51:5. The saved Paul confessed that he was the chief of sinners, 1 Timothy 1:15.

Calvinists believe that Jesus saves them by making them believe the Gospel (imposed salvation). The Bible teaches no such thing. If you want to be saved you will have to call on Jesus to save you, Romans 10:13.

Only a few understand how Jesus has saved them. Jesus said, "Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14.

Why is it that only a few find it? Religion is very appealing to human nature (The flesh) The Pharisees were a very showy bunch. They loved to pray on street corners so that all could see them. Religion is pro Hollywood.

Jesus said, "Broad is the way to destruction and many there be that go that way" Matthew 7:13. It is very apparent that the broad way is the way of religion.

Only one person has been accepted into heaven because of their works. It was because Jesus had victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil that God accepted him back into heaven and made him, "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. We are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

The question is did Jesus do that for himself or did he do it for us? When Jesus entered into heaven it was for us. Jesus came into the world as the new Adam and the representative of the human race. He embraced our humanity and put it to death, Romans 6:6. In the resurrection God has brought forth a new humanity and has perfected it through suffering.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Jesus saves believers who accept Him as their Lord and Savior. Jesus paid our sin debt on the cross.

 

[Nancy]

Hi Robert,
"The question is did Jesus do that for himself or did he do it for us?"

The answer that comes to me is that Jesus did it all for God, His Father. As He was thoroughly obedient to God The Father? And perhaps for us as well, but remember that Jesus asked God to remove this cup from Him so, it didn't seem that He wanted to do it, and then again He was all God and all human, I suspect that was His human part that wanted out...JMHO.

 

[Lambano]

Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. (John 15:13)

Yeah. He did it for us, too.

But don't ask me how it all works. Let the theologians argue about that. I'm okay with black-box mystery.

Oh, wait. That's what this thread is all about.

 

[Lambano]

20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. (Galatians 2:20)

I'm not sure how that one works either.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Pray for wisdom and understanding!!

 

[Robert Pate]

Jesus saves believers who accept Him as their Lord and Savior. Jesus paid our sin debt on the cross.

I prefer to say that Jesus died in my place.

 

[Robert Pate]

Hi Robert,
"The question is did Jesus do that for himself or did he do it for us?"

The answer that comes to me is that Jesus did it all for God, His Father. As He was thoroughly obedient to God The Father? And perhaps for us as well, but remember that Jesus asked God to remove this cup from Him so, it didn't seem that He wanted to do it, and then again He was all God and all human, I suspect that was His human part that wanted out...JMHO.

I think that you are right. If he didn't have fear of the cross he would not have been human. He was 100% God and 100% human in one body.

 

[Robert Pate]

20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. (Galatians 2:20)

I'm not sure how that one works either.

Here is my take on that. Jesus was acting in our name and on our behalf, our humanity was constituted in him. When Jesus lived, we lived in him. When Jesus died, we died with him, Romans 6:5. When Jesus ascended into heaven, we ascended with him. Our real lives are hidden with Christ in God, Colossians 3:3.

 

[Robert Pate]

Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. (John 15:13)

Yeah. He did it for us, too.

But don't ask me how it all works. Let the theologians argue about that. I'm okay with black-box mystery.

Oh, wait. That's what this thread is all about.

I don't like black-box mystery. You need to find out how it all works. The answers are all in the Bible, especially in Paul's epistles.

 

[Lambano]

Here is my take on that. Jesus was acting in our name and on our behalf, our humanity was constituted in him. When Jesus lived, we lived in him. When Jesus died, we died with him, Romans 6:5. When Jesus ascended into heaven, we ascended with him. Our real lives are hidden with Christ in God, Colossians 3:3.

Identity with Christ, then? He identified with us in His death; in response, we identify with Him in our lives?

21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Corinthians 5:21)

 

[Lambano]

I don't like black-box mystery. You need to find out how it all works. The answers are all in the Bible, especially in Paul's epistles.

My point was there's at least 6 models of the Atonement, including Satisfaction, Penal Satisfaction, I Can't Get No Satisfaction, Example, Governmental, Ransom, plus some really wacko theories. Each one has at least some grounding in the biblical text; none of them are comprehensive.

 

[Robert Pate]

Identity with Christ, then? He identified with us in His death; in response, we identify with Him in our lives?

21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Corinthians 5:21)

Identity with Christ, then? He identified with us in His death; in response, we identify with Him in our lives?

21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Corinthians 5:21)

I don't think that I can identify with his life. He was without sin, I am not without sin because I am still here in this Adamic body that is prone to sin, Romans 8:23.

 

[Robert Pate]

My point was there's at least 6 models of the Atonement, including Satisfaction, Penal Satisfaction, I Can't Get No Satisfaction, Example, Governmental, Ransom, plus some really wacko theories. Each one has at least some grounding in the biblical text; none of them are comprehensive.

Let me simplify it for you. Jesus atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

 

[Lambano]

I don't think that I can identify with his life. He was without sin, I am not without sin because I am still here in this Adamic body that is prone to sin, Romans 8:23.

Is that all what discipleship means?

 

[Lambano]

Let me simplify it for you. Jesus atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

What does "atonement" really mean?

Many years ago, on a long-defunct forum, I had some intriguing discussions with a new believer who came to Christ from a Buddhist background. To him, the Christian obsession with blood sacrifice was barbaric, on the order of primitives sacrificing a virgin to appease the volcano god. He'd witnessed actual Santeria sacrifices in Haiti and found the practice revolting. This is what Christians believe? Now, the Bible tells us to forgive others as God has forgiven us. But if God still requires our sins be paid for (like the guy in the parable who demanded his debtor repay him and sold him and his family into slavery when he couldn't), then God is a hypocrite because he doesn't REALLY forgive us. And how in the world can killing an innocent man to punish the misdeeds of the guilty be considered "justice"? It was an interesting discussion that made me re-examine the doctrine.

 

[Bob Estey]

Almost everyone believes that Jesus is the savior. The question is how does Jesus save us?

Catholics believe that Jesus saves them by doing something in them (Holiness). The Bible does not teach that. The Bible teaches that we are born into sin, King David wrote, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me" Psalm 51:5. The saved Paul confessed that he was the chief of sinners, 1 Timothy 1:15.

Calvinists believe that Jesus saves them by making them believe the Gospel (imposed salvation). The Bible teaches no such thing. If you want to be saved you will have to call on Jesus to save you, Romans 10:13.

Only a few understand how Jesus has saved them. Jesus said, "Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14.

Why is it that only a few find it? Religion is very appealing to human nature (The flesh) The Pharisees were a very showy bunch. They loved to pray on street corners so that all could see them. Religion is pro Hollywood.

Jesus said, "Broad is the way to destruction and many there be that go that way" Matthew 7:13. It is very apparent that the broad way is the way of religion.

Only one person has been accepted into heaven because of their works. It was because Jesus had victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil that God accepted him back into heaven and made him, "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. We are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

The question is did Jesus do that for himself or did he do it for us? When Jesus entered into heaven it was for us. Jesus came into the world as the new Adam and the representative of the human race. He embraced our humanity and put it to death, Romans 6:6. In the resurrection God has brought forth a new humanity and has perfected it through suffering.

Jesus saves us from Satan's torment. Satan could torment us forever for each sin we committed. When Satan had the world murder a sinless man - Jesus - he lost his credibility. No more torment.

 

[Robert Pate]

Is that all what discipleship means?

John said, "If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" 1 John 1:8.

 

[Robert Pate]

What does "atonement" really mean?

Many years ago, on a long-defunct forum, I had some intriguing discussions with a new believer who came to Christ from a Buddhist background. To him, the Christian obsession with blood sacrifice was barbaric, on the order of primitives sacrificing a virgin to appease the volcano god. He'd witnessed actual Santeria sacrifices in Haiti and found the practice revolting. This is what Christians believe? Now, the Bible tells us to forgive others as God has forgiven us. But if God still requires our sins be paid for (like the guy in the parable who demanded his debtor repay him and sold him and his family into slavery when he couldn't), then God is a hypocrite because he doesn't REALLY forgive us. And how in the world can killing an innocent man to punish the misdeeds of the guilty be considered "justice"? It was an interesting discussion that made me re-examine the doctrine.

There is no forgiveness of sins without the shedding of blood, Hebrews 9:22. A lot of people find this repulsive. All through the Old Testament animals were sacrificed for sins. This all pointed to Jesus who would sacrifice himself for the sins of the whole world. I think that God wants us to know that sin is a terrible thing and because of it there will be blood. The law says, "The soul that sins must die" Jesus shed his blood and gave his life so that we can be saved from condemnation.

 

[Lambano]

John said, "If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" 1 John 1:8.

No argument about that, but I'm not talking about sin. At least, not directly.

More like, has knowing Jesus affected how you live? How you treat other people? How you deal with the things of this life?