How Free Will Destroys the Gospel

[Dave L]

Not necessarily. I think that you still have to prove that free will is never a factor in a man's salvation; otherwise the whole world, "all" means all people.

"God is not willing that any should perish but that Jew and Gentile alike will be saved." it is not as consistent as you would like it to be.

"God is not willing that any should perish but that all should be saved." This is what it really says. If the Holy Spirit had wanted to say the other thing, he could have said it plainly without too much effort.

Can you find free will here?

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


Can you find it here?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.” (Galatians 5:19–23) (KJV 1900)

 

[justbyfaith]

Do you believe with the mind, or with the heart? This is why free will gospel is misleading. It requires head faith.

This is why my take on it is that the same heat that melts the wax hardens the clay. And that faith or unbelief is the person's response to hearing the gospel message.

 

[Dave L]

This is why my take on it is that the same heat that melts the wax hardens the clay. And that faith or unbelief is the person's response to hearing the gospel message.

Dead people don't hear.

 

[justbyfaith]

Can you find free will here?

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


Can you find it here?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.” (Galatians 5:19–23) (KJV 1900)

I find it in the context, in Galatians 5:16-18, and Romans 8:1-14.

There is a dichotomy of flesh and spirit that means that our choices and behaviours are based on one or the other at any given moment.

 

[justbyfaith]

Dead people don't hear.

Which begs the question, "How is a man born again?" or, "What must I do to be saved?"

I am interested in your answer to this question if the answer is not "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy household."

Because doesn't faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of the Lord?

 

[justbyfaith]

Can you find it here?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.” (Galatians 5:19–23) (KJV 1900)

Psalms 110:3.

 

[Dave L]

Which begs the question, "How is a man born again?" or, "What must I do to be saved?"

I am interested in your answer to this question if the answer is not "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy household."

The jailer already believed in Christ or he wouldn't have asked. As did the devout Jews in Acts 2:37

 

[Dave L]

I find it in the context, in Galatians 5:16-18, and Romans 8:1-14.

There is a dichotomy of flesh and spirit that means that our choices and behaviours are based on one or the other at any given moment.

The flesh only chooses an acceptable Christ for all the wrong reasons.

 

[justbyfaith]

The jailer already believed in Christ or he wouldn't have asked. As did the devout Jews in Acts 2:37

"Hearing comes by faith; and faith by the word of God." Romans 10:17??????????

 

[justbyfaith]

The jailer already believed in Christ or he wouldn't have asked. As did the devout Jews in Acts 2:37

Was the jailer saved because he believed in Christ or did he believe in Christ because he was saved?

 

[Willie T]

"Hearing comes by faith; and faith by the word of God." Romans 10:17?

Are you real sure you "quoted" that the way you meant to? (Yes, I saw the single question mark, but that was so vague as to be missed...…. leaving the "reversed" point you might have been trying to make kind of flat)

 

[Dave L]

Was the jailer saved because he believed in Christ or did he believe in Christ because he was saved?

He had the new birth (salvation) of which faith was a fruit of.

 

[justbyfaith]

I am considering this idea that spiritually dead people don't hear spiritually; this would indicate to me that a person cannot have faith unless he is quickened by the Spirit first; since faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of the Lord.

So, you are saying that God just reaches down and saves whoever He wants (who then believe with the heart because He has saved them) and sends the rest to hell? And that we don't have a choice in the matter?

How is it that we are then without excuse (Romans 1:20)? For we can say that God simply decided to condemn us (if we be condemned) and we didn't have a choice in the matter. Therefore it would be God, and not us, who is morally responsible for our condemnation.

 

[justbyfaith]

Are you real sure you "quoted" that the way you meant to?

Notice the "?".

I'm saying that that is how it should be quoted if what he is saying is right.

 

[Dave L]

I am considering this idea that spiritually dead people don't hear spiritually; this would indicate to me that a person cannot have faith unless he is born again first; since faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of the Lord.

So, you are saying that God just reaches down and saves whoever He wants and sends the rest to hell? And that we don't have a choice in the matter?

How is it that we are then without excuse (Romans 1:20)? For we can say that God simply decided to condemn us (if we be condemned) and we didn't have a choice in the matter. Therefore it would be God, and not us, who is morally responsible for our condemnation.

I believe this is true. But God's choice of whom he will save is purely arbitrary. People are verified damnable by what they do with the light of nature. None seek after God,only idols of their own making.

 

[Dave L]

"Hearing comes by faith; and faith by the word of God." Romans 10:17?

The word of God creates new life in us and us hearing creates faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

The response that this conversation is evoking in me is the concept that I cannot save myself; it makes me think of what Jesus said, Whosoever wishes to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever will lose his life for my sake will find it for life eternal.

So it motivates me to want to pour my life into some work of the gospel and forget about the salvation of my own soul; but just to trust God that He is good and that if He wants to save me, He will. And that if He does not want to save me, then there is nothing I can do about that, so I should not even be concerned over my soul or my salvation, because predestination means that I have no choice in the matter so I should just stop worrying about it altogether and live my life.

 

[Willie T]

Notice the "?".

I'm saying that that is how it should be quoted if what he is saying is right.

As I said, I got that. But I just have to say that in such a subtle twist as you tried there... I fear that Murphy's Law will take over and have most people thinking you actually quoted a real Scripture verse. (Next time, maybe three or four "????" ?

 

[justbyfaith]

As I said, I got that. But I just have to say that in such a subtle twist as you tried there... I fear that Murphy's Law will take over and have most people thinking you actually quoted a real Scripture verse. (Next time, maybe three or four "????" ?

Thank you (fixed it).

 

[Dave L]

The response that this conversation is evoking in me is the concept that I cannot save myself; it makes me think of what Jesus said, Whosoever wishes to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever will lose his life for my sake will find it for life eternal.

So it motivates me to want to pour my life into some work of the gospel and forget about the salvation of my own soul; but just to trust God that He is good and that if He wants to save me, He will. And that if He does not want to save me, then there is nothing I can do about that, so I should not even be concerned over my soul or my salvation, because predestination means that I have no choice in the matter so I should just stop worrying about it altogether and live my life.

If you have faith, which you obviously do, then it is evidence Jesus died for you personally and saved you. Or you would not believe. Even if you tried not to believe, all you would lose is false head faith. Only to find that you really do believe with your heart.