How Free Will Destroys the Gospel

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

D

Dave L

Guest
You still haven't come close to answering the question

How can both of these be true without resurrection?

You must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God, John 3:3
Flesh and blood can't inherit the Kingdom of God, 1 Corinthians 15:50
The kingdom is spiritual and present since Jesus preached it. It is not physical nor ever will be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,545
7,585
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant aimed wicked unbelievers. The New Covenant, aimed at believers only, replaced them. We use the Ten Commandments for instruction and commentary in the New Covenant, but we are not under them. We live according to the Two Great Commandments written in the heart, having love for God and people as did Abel, Job, Abraham and all born again believers in the OT.
your answer is loose as well Dave.
 

Ac28

Active Member
May 18, 2016
425
119
43
Arkansas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Spiritual or Physical (it's definitely both), you have to be born again to enter it and you can't enter it if you're composed of flesh and blood. Therefore, you can only enter it with a different body and you can get that ONLY through resurrection , or by being born the second time, through the Spirit. Therefore, since only Christ has been resurrected, only Christ has ever been born again.
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Spiritual or Physical (it's definitely both), you have to be born again to enter it and you can't enter it if you're composed of flesh and blood. Therefore, you can only enter it with a different body and you can get that ONLY through resurrection , or by being born the second time, through the Spirit. Therefore, since only Christ has been resurrected, only Christ has ever been born again.
Christ was glorified, not born again.

Enoch and Elijah our flash and blood in heaven.

I think the Bible's pretty clear the kingdom of god manifests itself in different ways. Or it is being missdefined
 

Ac28

Active Member
May 18, 2016
425
119
43
Arkansas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
(1) Christ was glorified, not born again.

(2)Enoch and Elijah our flash and blood in heaven.

(3) I think the Bible's pretty clear the kingdom of god manifests itself in different ways. Or it is being missdefined

(1) He was born a second time, of the Spirit, when He was resurrected. Anyone resurrected will be born again, a second time. His being glorified is a separate thing. Being born again vs Glorification = Apples vs Oranges.
(2) No one except Christ has EVER ascended to the uncreated Highest Heaven, John 3:13. Neither Enoch or Elijah went there. They may have gone into the created starry Heavens, but never where Christ now sits at God's right hand
(3) The Kingdom of God takes in the entire Universe. Lots of different facets of this.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,155
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
and this would mean Jesus obeyed the law?

The law was fulfilled on the cross...Jesus was the Last Perfect Lamb...
He was examined for perfection as were all the sheep ready for the slaughter. The sacrifice had to be without spot or blemish. Perfect.

He kept the Law as a man, but clearly showed that He was Lord OF the law... and He left His church with the two great commandments, LOVE... in those, all the law is and was fulfilled.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy and jaybird

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
(1) He was born a second time, of the Spirit, when He was resurrected. Anyone resurrected will be born again, a second time. His being glorified is a separate thing. Being born again vs Glorification = Apples vs Oranges.
(2) No one except Christ has EVER ascended to the uncreated Highest Heaven, John 3:13. Neither Enoch or Elijah went there. They may have gone into the created starry Heavens, but never where Christ now sits at God's right hand
(3) The Kingdom of God takes in the entire Universe. Lots of different facets of this.
(1) He was born a second time, of the Spirit, when He was resurrected. Anyone resurrected will be born again, a second time. His being glorified is a separate thing. Being born again vs Glorification = Apples vs Oranges.
(2) No one except Christ has EVER ascended to the uncreated Highest Heaven, John 3:13. Neither Enoch or Elijah went there. They may have gone into the created starry Heavens, but never where Christ now sits at God's right hand
(3) The Kingdom of God takes in the entire Universe. Lots of different facets of this.
You need to do a lot of bible study.
 

jaybird

Well-Known Member
Feb 29, 2016
1,595
559
113
The law was fulfilled on the cross...Jesus was the Last Perfect Lamb...
He was examined for perfection as were all the sheep ready for the slaughter. The sacrifice had to be without spot or blemish. Perfect.

He kept the Law as a man, but clearly showed that He was Lord OF the law... and He left His church with the two great commandments, LOVE... in those, all the law is and was fulfilled.

if Jesus obeyed the law, and Jesus is our example, this means we do not follow that example?
this makes no sense to me.
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
if Jesus obeyed the law, and Jesus is our example, this means we do not follow that example?
this makes no sense to me.
Matthew 5:17 New International Version (NIV)
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jaybird

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The kingdom is spiritual and present since Jesus preached it. It is not physical nor ever will be.
So the New Jerusalem, where God will dwell with us on the new earth is not his kingdom for eternity?

When Christ sets up his MK kingdom on the earth, that is not the kingdom of god?
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
if Jesus obeyed the law, and Jesus is our example, this means we do not follow that example?
this makes no sense to me.
Matthew 5:17 New International Version (NIV)
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
 

jaybird

Well-Known Member
Feb 29, 2016
1,595
559
113
People can drive themselves crazy trying to "make sense" of spiritual things. :)
i agree it can get confusing, Jesus says He didnt come to abolish but in the same sentence says He fulfilled. Paul says grace, James says works, which is it, we debate it back and forth forever.
how many examples of Jesus are there, when Jesus fed someone that was hungry, how many debate that? there is only one way to feed someone. IMO if Christians focused more on the actions of Jesus and tried to apply that to their everyday lives, we would be less divided.
 
D

Dave L

Guest
So the New Jerusalem, where God will dwell with us on the new earth is not his kingdom for eternity?

When Christ sets up his MK kingdom on the earth, that is not the kingdom of god?
The kingdom is spiritual and present now. But only the born again can see it. When Jesus returns on the last day He sits on his throne in the New Heavens and Earth AKA Israel's restoration (the resurrection/rapture of believers).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte