How Free Will Destroys the Gospel

[Dave L]

So where did he descend to?

Abraham and the poor man were not in hell or heaven. They were in paradise, which was not heaven.

So where were they?

And don't say heaven, leading the saints in train disprove that.

Isn't the earth below heaven from whence Christ came?

 

[CoreIssue]

Isn't the earth below heaven from whence Christ came?

And where did he ascend from to reach the surface of the earth?

 

[ScottA]

If God created all, how can any add to it? There's no room for thoughts and acts independent of God who created them.

That's true. All that is called "added" is either false, or part...which is unveiled in revelations "each in his own order."

 

[Grams]

Eph.2;
8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[Ac28]

“for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.” (1 Peter 1:23) (NASB95)

In 1Pe 1:23, the term "born again" is one Greek word, "anagennao", which means, to begat again; to bear again. Used of the redeeming act of God through the Word; a new beginning of personal life.

In John 3:3,7, the Greek of "born again" is 2 words, "gennao anothen", which means "born from above"

In other words, these have 2 totally different meanings. The first is a change in one's existing life and the 2nd is a literal brand new life, in every possible way imaginable, physically and mentally. Apples and oranges.

So, since you failed in that, what about the original problem? How can both of these be true without resurrection?

You must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God, John 3:3
Flesh and blood can't inherit the Kingdom of God, 1 Corinthians 15:50

 

[Helen]

SDA Jesus? Seventh Day Baptist version of Jesus?......???

Oh so true.
So many have a "Jesus " of their own making!

Plus there is the Jesus that was ( 33yrs) and the Jesus which IS.

 

[CoreIssue]

In 1Pe 1:23, the term "born again" is one Greek word, "anagennao", which means, to begat again; to bear again. Used of the redeeming act of God; a new beginning of personal life.

In John 3:3,7, the Greek of "born again" is 2 words, "gennao anothen", which means "born from above"

In other words, these have 2 totally different meanings. The first is a change in one's existing life and the 2nd is a literal brand new life, in every possible way imaginable, physically and mentally. Apples and oranges.

So, since you failed in that, what about the original problem? How can both of these be true without resurrection?

You must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God, John 3:3
Flesh and blood can't inherit the Kingdom of God, 1 Corinthians 15:50

If you researched kingdom of God there is not one single meaning.

Enoch and Elijah are in heaven withe flesh and blood.

In the MK Christ will rule as king via David. Not as God.

So the differences is being born again and inheritance.

Israel and Church are coheirs.

One is an heir before they inherit. They do not happen at the same time.

 

[Dave L]

In 1Pe 1:23, the term "born again" is one Greek word, "anagennao", which means, to begat again; to bear again. Used of the redeeming act of God through the Word; a new beginning of personal life.

In John 3:3,7, the Greek of "born again" is 2 words, "gennao anothen", which means "born from above"

In other words, these have 2 totally different meanings. The first is a change in one's existing life and the 2nd is a literal brand new life, in every possible way imaginable, physically and mentally. Apples and oranges.

So, since you failed in that, what about the original problem? How can both of these be true without resurrection?

You must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God, John 3:3
Flesh and blood can't inherit the Kingdom of God, 1 Corinthians 15:50

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)
“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20) (NET)

 

[CoreIssue]

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)
“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20) (NET)

Luke 17:21 New International Version (NIV)
21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”a]">[a]

Luke 17:21 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is a]">[a]in your midst.”

Luke 17:21 English Standard Version (ESV)
21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”a]">[a]

Luke 17:21 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
21 no one will say,a]">[a] ‘Look here!’ or ‘There!’ For you see, the kingdom of God is among you.”


Good old KJV again.

 

[Dave L]

Luke 17:21 New International Version (NIV)
21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”a]">[a]

Good old KJV again.

Problems with that?

 

[CoreIssue]

Problems with that?

In the midst of is not the same as in people.

In the extreme example, a bullet on the table in a room of people is far different from a bullet and the people in a room.

 

[Dave L]

In the midst of is not the same as in people.

In the extreme example, a bullet on the table in a room of people is far different from a bullet and the people in a room.

Midst =
ἐντός adv. of place (Hom.+; ins, pap, LXX, JosAs 2:4; EpArist, Philo, Joseph., Just., D 2, 6) in our lit. functions only as prep. w. gen.
① pert. to a specific area inside someth., inside, within, within the limits of (Lucian, Dial. Mort. 14, 5; JosAs 2:4 ἐ. τοῦ θαλάμου; Jos., Bell. 3, 175


Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 340). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

 

[jaybird]

He fulfilled it and replaced it with the New Covenant aimed only at believers.

Ok.
Back to the question, did Jesus obey the law. Yes or no?

 

[Dave L]

Ok.
Back to the question, did Jesus obey the law. Yes or no?

He was sinless, was he not? And sin is a violation of the law.

 

[CoreIssue]

Midst =
ἐντός adv. of place (Hom.+; ins, pap, LXX, JosAs 2:4; EpArist, Philo, Joseph., Just., D 2, 6) in our lit. functions only as prep. w. gen.
① pert. to a specific area inside someth., inside, within, within the limits of (Lucian, Dial. Mort. 14, 5; JosAs 2:4 ἐ. τοῦ θαλάμου; Jos., Bell. 3, 175


Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 340). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

Inside an area, a group of people, it etc. Not inside of a person.

Luke 17:21
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 1787 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
ejntovß from (1722)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Entos None
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
en-tos' Preposition
Definition

1. within, inside
   1. within you i.e. in the midst of you
   2. within you i.e. your soul

Tell a group of people something is in their midst, they're not going to understand that to mean inside their bodies or spirits.

 

[Dave L]

Inside an area, a group of people, it etc. Not inside of a person.

Luke 17:21
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 1787 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
ejntovß from (1722)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Entos None
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
en-tos' Preposition
Definition

1. 
   
   
   • within, inside
     1. within you i.e. in the midst of you
     2. within you i.e. your soul

Tell a group of people something is in their midst, they're not going to understand that to mean inside their bodies or spirits.

"Inside" was good enough for the pros translating the KJV. It's good enough for me, especially having experienced it personally.

 

[CoreIssue]

"Inside" was good enough for the pros translating the KJV. It's good enough for me, especially having experienced it personally.

The root word is not what was used in the bible.

That is like saying paraphrase means something other than what it does because phrase is the root word.

Same with words like saint, sacred and sanctify., Common root word but not the same use or meaning.

 

[Dave L]

The root word is not what was used in the bible.

That is like saying paraphrase means something other than what it does because phrase is the root word.

Same with words like saint, sacred and sanctify., Common root word but not the same use or meaning.

It sounds as though you have some core issues, CorIssue. Take the word at face value.

 

[bbyrd009]

so who won?

 

[Ac28]

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)
“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20) (NET)

You still haven't come close to answering the question

How can both of these be true without resurrection?

You must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God, John 3:3
Flesh and blood can't inherit the Kingdom of God, 1 Corinthians 15:50

The Kingdom of God was among them. The King was sitting right there with them

What about the Amplified Version?
"Nor will people say, ‘Look! Here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For the kingdom of God is among you [because of My presence].”

Or the ESV
"Nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”

The King was within the group