How Free Will Destroys the Gospel

[Dave L]

I believe they applied to all of humanity. But the mosaic covenant only applied to Israel and is now annulled.

Christ never said any of the 10 commandments do not apply to the Church.

Other covenants, such the Noahic Covenant was to all humanity and unending.

Such as the Davidic were only to David.

The Ten Commandments were only for Israel.

““The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai. The LORD did not make this covenant with our ancestors, but with all of us who are alive today.” (Deuteronomy 5:2–3)

 

[bbyrd009]

The Ten Commandments were only for Israel.

““The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai. The LORD did not make this covenant with our ancestors, but with all of us who are alive today.” (Deuteronomy 5:2–3)

seems awful dangerous to not be considering how we might be in that "all" imo, especially after the "ancestors" qualification?

and i guess obv once you toss the Decalogue you also toss our legal code, which is derived from it, right

 

[Dave L]

seems awful dangerous to not be considering how we might be in that "all" imo, especially after the "ancestors" qualification?

and i guess obv once you toss the Decalogue you also toss our legal code, which is derived from it, right

All cultures have a form of the Decalogue. But God gave The Decalogue to Israel only.

 

[jaybird]

Which version of Jesus are you referring to?

The one in the Bible that obeyed the law.

 

[Dave L]

The one in the Bible that obeyed the law.

SDA Jesus? Seventh Day Baptist version of Jesus?......???

 

[Ac28]

Abraham was born again, as was Abel, Job, Moses, and so on. All of the faithful in Romans 11 were born again because faith/faithfulness is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
“However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.” (Romans 8:9) (NASB95)

Being born again is being resurrected, No one except Christ has ever been born again. Born again isn't salvation. You must be saved before you can be resurrected (born again).

You must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God, John 3:3
Flesh and blood can't inherit the Kingdom of God, 1 Corinthians 15:50

The ONLY way both of those verses can be correct is when being born again means resurrection

********************************************

Jesus Christ did NOT TELL US Gentiles to preach the Gospel. His earthly ministry was totally TO Israel, Matthew 15:24 . The Gospel He was talking about was the Kingdom (Earthly) Gospel, which was solely for Israel ( Acts of the Apostles 1:6 ). This same Gospel was preached during the all-Israel Acts period by both the 12 and Paul, since the ENTIRE purpose of Acts was to get Israel to repent, as a nation, so Christ would return and Israel's Kingdom would begin. Christ said He would't return until Israel accepted Him, Matthew 23:39 . The Gospel of the Grace of God, that Paul eventually preached, was that the Gentiles could partake of Israel's blessings without keeping the law. There are several Gospels in the Bible.

********************************************

There are only 2 churches in the Bible. One for Israel and one for the Gentiles

One is solely for Israel. It started under the name of The Church in the Wilderness ( Acts of the Apostles 7:38 ). The Church in the Gospels and the Church in Acts was the same Church. No new church started in the Gospels or Acts. In Acts, the Gentiles were grafted into that same Church.

The Gentiles have a totally different Church that has absolutely nothing to do with Israel. It's the present day Church which is the Body of Christ, where Christ is the Head, found only in Paul's 7 post-Acts books.. It is not the same "body of Christ" as in 1Cor for several reasons.
(1) One is that the Hope in all-Israel Acts was the New Jerusalem, whereas after Acts, the Hope is Above the starry Heavens, where Christ sits at God's right hand.
(2) Members of the "body" in 1Cor 12 are "eyes" and "ears", parts of the Head. This can't happen after Acts, where Christ is the Head.
(3) Also, the Acts church has the "Rapture" and the after-Acts church has the "Appearing".
(4) Also, everything Paul taught and wrote during Acts can be found in the OT, Acts of the Apostles 26:22 , but, after Acts, nothing Paul taught or wrote was in the OT, since it ALL had been hidden in God since the world began ( Ephesians 3:9 , Colossians 1:26 ), until revealed to Paul by Jesus Christ, Ephesians 3:3

************************************************

The greatest travesty in the world today is the all-powerful, Judaising, Pagan, KNOW-NOTHING Denominational Church system that, through the wiles of Satan, teaches UNOBTAINABLE Jewish doctrine to know-LESS-than-nothing Gentiles. It's sole purpose is to keep you dumbed down and keep you out of the Highest Heaven, where Satan aspired to go but wasn't allowed to.

Through this abhorrent System, Satan has successfully prevented billions (literally) from going to Heaven. Every Church-goer in the world, who believes their Judaising preacher, will end up one the New Earth with a terrestrial body, with 2 dimensional freedom, that is kept alive by the pure water coming out of the New Jerusalem and the fruits from the tree of life.

Wouldn't you rather be in 4-dimensional GLORIOUS body in the Heaven of Heavens?

 

[bbyrd009]

All cultures have a form of the Decalogue. But God gave The Decalogue to Israel only.

so you say, Dave, but imo this is an awfully myopic view too, now Israel is a literal nation, when not all who are born Israel are of Israel, and even not considering that look how your statement reads so...like an oxymoron? The Decalogue goes back to Hammurabi and likely even before, the 2nd 5 anyway; and i can't imagine which of the first 5 you might consider breakable. Besides all of the Scripture that has been reasoned away with that.

"Don't be deceived, little children."
"not one jot or tittle"
"Consider them least in the kingdom"

so what i see happening there is a way to not have to confess tbh
that also allows that one to justify standing...in a certain place,
as their professions will invariably demonstrate imo,
lots of this is that and that is this, inferring that some truth is being uttered when they do not know, and pick a side, etc?

 

[bbyrd009]

The ONLY way both of those verses can be correct is when being born again means resurrection

sorry but that is not true, except from a logical pov imo

meaning that there are other valid interpretations, not that i would insist you are not correct, bc i don't know, ok

You must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God, John 3:3
but not literally, right
Flesh and blood can't inherit the Kingdom of God, 1 Corinthians 15:50
also not literal

47The first man was from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven.

but he is nonetheless Ish, see, a play on words is being used to indicate a spiritual transformation that is supposed to occur when we die at baptism
imo

[444 /ánthrōpos ("man") answers to the Hebrew term, ̓adam – and 435(anḗr) answers to the Hebrew term ̓ish.

 

[ScottA]

But something must exist before it can choose. And it always chooses for a reason that precedes the choice. So God is the reason behind people choosing what they do.

That is the logic of the world, of one limited to the ways of the world which exists on a created timeline like a news reel of something that has already occurred. The correct timing is not when the news comes, but when the event occurred. But then again...even that suggest a timeline where there is no time. It's just the wrong way to get to the truth. God is true.

 

[Dave L]

That is the logic of the world, of one limited to the ways of the world which exists on a created timeline like a news reel of something that has already occurred. The correct timing is not when the news comes, but when the event occurred. But then again...even that suggest a timeline where there is no time. It's just the wrong way to get to the truth. God is true.

If God created all, how can any add to it? There's no room for thoughts and acts independent of God who created them.

 

[Dave L]

Being born again is being resurrected, No one except Christ has ever been born again. Born again isn't salvation. You must be saved before you can be resurrected (born again).

You must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God, John 3:3
Flesh and blood can't inherit the Kingdom of God, 1 Corinthians 15:50

The ONLY way both of those verses can be correct is when being born again means resurrection

********************************************

Jesus Christ did NOT TELL US Gentiles to preach the Gospel. His earthly ministry was totally TO Israel, Matthew 15:24 . The Gospel He was talking about was the Kingdom (Earthly) Gospel, which was solely for Israel ( Acts of the Apostles 1:6 ). This same Gospel was preached during the all-Israel Acts period by both the 12 and Paul, since the ENTIRE purpose of Acts was to get Israel to repent, as a nation, so Christ would return and Israel's Kingdom would begin. Christ said He would't return until Israel accepted Him, Matthew 23:39 . The Gospel of the Grace of God, that Paul eventually preached, was that the Gentiles could partake of Israel's blessings without keeping the law. There are several Gospels in the Bible.

********************************************

There are only 2 churches in the Bible. One for Israel and one for the Gentiles

One is solely for Israel. It started under the name of The Church in the Wilderness ( Acts of the Apostles 7:38 ). The Church in the Gospels and the Church in Acts was the same Church. No new church started in the Gospels or Acts. In Acts, the Gentiles were grafted into that same Church.

The Gentiles have a totally different Church that has absolutely nothing to do with Israel. It's the present day Church which is the Body of Christ, where Christ is the Head, found only in Paul's 7 post-Acts books.. It is not the same "body of Christ" as in 1Cor for several reasons.
(1) One is that the Hope in all-Israel Acts was the New Jerusalem, whereas after Acts, the Hope is Above the starry Heavens, where Christ sits at God's right hand.
(2) Members of the "body" in 1Cor 12 are "eyes" and "ears", parts of the Head. This can't happen after Acts, where Christ is the Head.
(3) Also, the Acts church has the "Rapture" and the after-Acts church has the "Appearing".
(4) Also, everything Paul taught and wrote during Acts can be found in the OT, Acts of the Apostles 26:22 , but, after Acts, nothing Paul taught or wrote was in the OT, since it ALL had been hidden in God since the world began ( Ephesians 3:9 , Colossians 1:26 ), until revealed to Paul by Jesus Christ, Ephesians 3:3

************************************************

The greatest travesty in the world today is the all-powerful, Judaising, Pagan, KNOW-NOTHING Denominational Church system that, through the wiles of Satan, teaches UNOBTAINABLE Jewish doctrine to know-LESS-than-nothing Gentiles. It's sole purpose is to keep you dumbed down and keep you out of the Highest Heaven, where Satan aspired to go but wasn't allowed to.

Through this abhorrent System, Satan has successfully prevented billions (literally) from going to Heaven. Every Church-goer in the world, who believes their Judaising preacher, will end up one the New Earth with a terrestrial body, with 2 dimensional freedom, that is kept alive by the pure water coming out of the New Jerusalem and the fruits from the tree of life.

Wouldn't you rather be in 4-dimensional GLORIOUS body in the Heaven of Heavens?

“for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.” (1 Peter 1:23) (NASB95)

 

[CoreIssue]

Why were they in paradise (heaven) if not saved?
“I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven. And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows— was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.” (2 Corinthians 12:2–4) (NASB95)

It says Christ descended before he ascended. When he ascended led the saints in train. Impossible if they're already in heaven.

As said before the bible speaks of three paradises that that, not one.

 

[Dave L]

It says Christ descended before he ascended. When he ascended led the saints in train. Impossible if they're already in heaven.

As said before the bible speaks of three paradises that that, not one.

So your interpretation goes. But we need to understand the obscure passages in light of the clear passages.

 

[CoreIssue]

The Ten Commandments were only for Israel.

““The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai. The LORD did not make this covenant with our ancestors, but with all of us who are alive today.” (Deuteronomy 5:2–3)

More happened on Sinai than the 10 commandments.

Are you honestly saying the 10 commandments have been annuled? That they were only for Israel?

 

[Dave L]

More happened on Sinai than the 10 commandments.

Are you honestly saying the 10 commandments have been annuled? That they were only for Israel?

This is correct.

 

[jaybird]

SDA Jesus? Seventh Day Baptist version of Jesus?......???

Did Jesus obey the law?

 

[CoreIssue]

So your interpretation goes. But we need to understand the obscure passages in light of the clear passages.

Nothing obscure here:

Ephesians 4:10 New International Version (NIV)
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe

Ephesians 4:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 This is why ita]">[a] says:

“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives

 

[Dave L]

Nothing obscure here:

Ephesians 4:10 New International Version (NIV)
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe

Ephesians 4:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 This is why ita]">[a] says:

“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives

This says nothing about Sheol or "paradise".

 

[Dave L]

Did Jesus obey the law?

He fulfilled it and replaced it with the New Covenant aimed only at believers.

 

[CoreIssue]

This says nothing about Sheol or "paradise".

So where did he descend to?

Abraham and the poor man were not in hell or heaven. They were in paradise, which was not heaven.

So where were they?

And don't say heaven, leading the saints in train disprove that.