How Important Truth?

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bbyrd009

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"Heaven will be filled with people"

There is only One Immortal, Who dwells in unapproachable light
No one has ever gone up to heaven but He Who came down from it
You will see Him come down the same way you saw Him go up
you and your sons will be here with me
on earth as it is in heaven
 
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bbyrd009

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and imo there is a diff in allowing someone lacking knowledge to continue to post by way of learning/discovering more truth, v what is going on here, letting Strong Men over-run the board?

how much would 20 ppl each have to pony up a month to keep a forum open, and free of this sickness?
 
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brakelite

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, the law is works of the flesh not faith, law abiding citizens hey, show us 1.
I'm not under the law....I'm under grace....the law is done away with, nailed to the cross....I don't have to obey....to obey God is of the flesh...working your way to heaven is the same as obeying God....the law only applies to the Jews....Gentiles weren't given the law ….

I am waiting for the day someone brave enough and stupid enough says any one or all of the above oft repeated phrases and takes such to their logical conclusion...I am not under the law therefore I am going to steal your car...and what's more I'm still going to heaven.
 

Waiting on him

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I'm not under the law....I'm under grace....the law is done away with, nailed to the cross....I don't have to obey....to obey God is of the flesh...working your way to heaven is the same as obeying God....the law only applies to the Jews....Gentiles weren't given the law ….

I am waiting for the day someone brave enough and stupid enough says any one or all of the above oft repeated phrases and takes such to their logical conclusion...I am not under the law therefore I am going to steal your car...and what's more I'm still going to heaven.
We establish a new law. It’s founded in love. We are to be in subjection to this law. Only the Spirit can perform it through us.
 

mjrhealth

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Do you believe we should throw out the word instead of encouraging others toward it? Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hearing what by the word? Hearing God’s voice? So then faith comes by hearing God’s voice and hearing God’s voice by the word. Acts 13:27
[27] For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him .

He still has to be the one who speaks. There are so many voices in the world it gets confusing. If our husband gave us, “Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.”

why would we not want to hear what He has to say? How would we know what is our of imagination and what is of God...if we don’t read and hear what He who is higher than our own reasoning says? How would we know about the armour to put on without God disclosing it to us?
yes look at all the voices on this forum quoting the bible, which are from Him???
 

mjrhealth

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Jesus broke many civil "laws," and actually provided a template for the definition of "Law" for us by so doing. So while you don't realize it, you are really arguing against your own point here mjr, I guess bc you think as long as you say LALALALA loudly enough whenever other Scripture and even Christ assure you in many places that you must keep the Law, you can just crap all over it in your usual manner
Scripture assures us that you once again do not have the first clue of what you are talking about mjr, which is why you cannot post any Scripture to that effect, while I can blow that away with Scripture, and imo you already know it, right? You aren't ignorant iow, just evil?

you are apparently a deliberate liar who does not even possess the grace to admit when you are wrong, I guess bc you never have been prolly, and after you have said "no one needs to pick up their cross and follow Christ" in a forum there could only be one reason why you are allowed to continue to post in it i guess.
wrong abourt what,

I am teh way the truth and the life says teh Lord no man shall go to heaven except by ME

do you know another way???

Joh_10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
 

mjrhealth

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I'm not under the law....I'm under grace....the law is done away with, nailed to the cross....I don't have to obey....to obey God is of the flesh...working your way to heaven is the same as obeying God....the law only applies to the Jews....Gentiles weren't given the law ….

I am waiting for the day someone brave enough and stupid enough says any one or all of the above oft repeated phrases and takes such to their logical conclusion...I am not under the law therefore I am going to steal your car...and what's more I'm still going to heaven.
Is the seventh day adevntist church all about keeping the law?

If you are not under the law than what has it to do with you...

I am not under the law, and I wont steal your car, because that is not what love would do,

Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

its enough for Him

and millions will go to heaven without the "law" because they believe.
 

amadeus

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@brakelite

Your question is, "How important truth"? For a believer it is or should be very important. So then as per the verses you suggested in the OP I proceed as I see it:

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." II Thess 2:10-12


Verse 10 speaks not of knowing the truth, but rather of loving it. Can we love the truth without knowing it perfectly and completely?

Jesus speaks in the following verse of what knowledge of the truth will do?


"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

And what again is the truth?

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

So then if we know Jesus we know the Truth, right? And then...

"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him." John 14:7

Knowing Jesus according to that verse, it appears we would also know his Father.

How well do we know Jesus? How well do we know the truth? Are any of us deluded because we do not love the truth though we believe that we do? Do any of us love the doctrines we support and the conclusions of ourselves and/or our church groups rather than the truth itself? They are two different things.

Is there not only one truth and it is known incompletely by us all who are not yet overcomers as Jesus was an overcomer? Are we not all in that same boat with Paul with regard to our knowledge of truth?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

Since all of us, as Paul when he wrote those words, see through a glass darkly, we do NOT know the truth or at least not all of it. Is this not so?

So back to the question of loving truth without knowing it.

When we love the truth, we should then have salvation even if we do not know all the truth or what we do know is "through a glass darkly".

What was it again that knowing the truth does? It makes us free. As we grow then in our walk toward God and His Son, knowing more and better what the truth is, are we not being "made free" in that which we no longer only believe but know?

We can love the truth all of the time without knowing it perfectly and as a result be "saved". As we know the truth more completely and clearly ["face to face"] we become [are made] freer and freer of the things within us which would lead us astray away from the salvation which is ours.

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world" I John 2:16


In another place it is written:

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Heb 12:2


That speaks of the end of faith where we believe and love the truth that we have and when we have overcome all of the obstructions and imperfections that stand between us and God, are we not then arrived at that perfect knowledge [no more by faith] of the truth that we always loved?

My point, is that if we love truth without knowing it completely we are saved, but we are not yet overcomers of all that there is for us to overcome. Overcomers, the ones who like Jesus have overcome it all, no longer only believe and love the truth, but know and love the truth. We can be in error on this point or on that point of our beliefs and our doctrines while still loving truth. We are, or should be, led by the Holy Spirit to all truth. That's OK so long as we remain on the road, that is the highway of holiness. That road with the Holy Spirit leading brings to us that face to face knowledge... if we endure to the end of our road. And IF we have that love of truth all the way, we are saved all the way along the way.

What really happens to people is that they look this way and misstep, and then that way and misstep, instead of always keeping their eyes of Jesus.
Can we become overcomers?
Can we move from through a glass darkly to face to face?
Can we move from faith to knowledge?

We can but the love of truth is essential all along that road toward that perfect seven fold Light. People do step off of the pathway at their peril. But God is a merciful God who will help us at any time, until we have run out of time. Which person knows how much time he has left?
 
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OzSpen

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How Important is Truth?
I am the Way, the Truth,, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father except by Me.

50 odd years ago there was a church in I think the city of Indianapolis called the Peoples Temple. The minister there was a gifted and charismatic preacher, hugely popular, endorsed and recommended by some very important and influential people including congressmen and senators and J Edgar Hoover himself (of FBI fame).
The people of his congregation were ordinary people like you and me, searching for a spiritual home in which to worship and bring their families.
One such person presented to the minister one day some concerns over a particular doctrinal matter. It appeared to the parishioner that the minister’s teaching differed somewhat from the Bible and the church member was asking for an explanation. The minister’s response was something along these lines: “Don’t worry about that, what is really important is people. Here in our church we believe that loving one another is more important than a few doctrines. Love is what we are about here.”
The minister’s name was the Rev. Jim Jones. Most of the 900 members of his congregation died in Guyana after a mass suicide from drinking poisoned cool-ade.
Folks, truth is important.

20 years ago I shared my faith with my brother-in-law. For 3 hours we poured over the scriptures, which brought answers to his every objection to my faith. Not long after he went overseas with his family chasing a dream. He returned 10 years later penniless, the dream unrealised, in debt, and blind. Yet stubbornly cleaving to the dream.
Folks, truth is important.

20 years ago an uncle and aunty of mine came to stay with us for a while. They witnessed our lifestyle, heard our prayers, saw what God had done for and in us. Within a few weeks of leaving my uncle had a heart attack and died.
Folks, truth is important.

18 years ago I was discussing doctrinal differences with my Christian employer. He agreed that my and my churches’ understanding of scripture made sense and was biblically consistent. Two weeks later he had a heart attack right in front of me, and despite over two hours of CPR , he died.
Folks, truth is important.

12 years ago I was invited by a neighbour to participate in a series of Bible studies at their home, based on the well known and popular ‘40 days of purpose’ by Rick Warren. Early on I noticed some teachings of Warren’s with which I disagreed. I prepared a bible study and shared this with my hosts on another evening. He and his wife both agreed with my view, but asked that I not bring it up with the other participants, saying “what is important is people, let us just love one another”. Sound familiar? One month after the end of the series, my neighbour had a heart attack, and died.
Folks, truth is important.

Apart from perhaps the Jim Jones saga, I am not suggesting in any way that those deaths were a result of rejecting truth. The point I wish to stress in this thread is two-fold. One, we must embrace truth to it’s absolute fullest while we can-for we do not know what tomorrow may bring. Not only in respect to our mortality here on earth, but also in respect to the soon coming of our Saviour to bring an end to this sin-sick world. Second point is by way of a challenge. How important to you is truth? Have you received a love of the truth, such a love that falsehood has become offensive to you? Such a love that a lie becomes an abomination? Do you love truth as an eternal principle, or do you love that which you believe to be true. There is a huge difference between loving TRUTH, as a principle of life, and loving the doctrine, practice, or tradition you currently believe in, thinking it to be true. Because unless you love TRUTH, your doctrine which you hold so dear could very well be a lie. ( 2Thess. 2:10-12.)
This is a salvation issue folks. The doctrines I was discussing with those now deceased were important. They are hotly debated on these forums every day. Let me state unequivocally, that if the weight of scriptural evidence is not in your favour with respect to any particular doctrine, you are wrong not to at least investigate the possibility that you could be in error. And if on concluding your investigation the weight of evidence still stands against you, then you are wrong if you do not accept and adopt a different stance.
British philosopher W.K.Clifford once said,” It is always wrong, everywhere and for everyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.”
Folks, truth is important. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. You reject truth, you reject the author and foundation of truth. Unless you are sincerely and honestly willing to give up any current belief if the scriptures so direct, then you do not love truth, and the very real danger there is, as Paul warns in 2 Thess., you will accept a lie, even the antichrist himself.
How important is Truth?
It is the Cornerstone of the church. It is the Foundation upon which rests everything we build. It is the Rock which is immoveable and supports our faith. It is the Vine through which we are fed. It is the Bread which nourishes us and sanctifies us.
TRUTH. Embrace it. Love it. Cleave to it.
If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Regards
Brakelite.

Brakelite,

For this Aussie with a strange accent, would you mind defining what you mean by 'truth'?

  1. Is it truth as the opposite of lies? Or,
  2. It is true that I have thick, dark hair;
  3. Truly, Jesus was the Son of God;
  4. The truth is that the Queensland and NSW outback are experiencing a severe drought;
  5. She told him the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
  6. I pursued study to uncover the truth of Jesus' resurrection. Was it fiction, fantasy, an apparition or a bodily resurrection?
  7. What is 'the word of truth'?
  8. That is really and truly the man who was with the swagman whom I saw at Boggabilla, NSW, Australia.
  9. What is the 'truth' of Jesus in John 14:6?
  10. That is truthfully what my telescope sees in the heavens.
  11. It is true that the Christian worldview conforms with the reality of the world around us.
  12. Etc.
There are so many meanings of truth. To which do you refer?

Oz
 

farouk

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Brakelite,

For this Aussie with a strange accent, would you mind defining what you mean by 'truth'?

  1. Is it truth as the opposite of lies? Or,
  2. It is true that I have thick, dark hair;
  3. Truly, Jesus was the Son of God;
  4. The truth is that the Queensland and NSW outback are experiencing a severe drought;
  5. She told him the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
  6. I pursued study to uncover the truth of Jesus' resurrection. Was it fiction, fantasy, an apparition or a bodily resurrection?
  7. What is 'the word of truth'?
  8. That is really and truly the man who was with the swagman whom I saw at Boggabilla, NSW, Australia.
  9. What is the 'truth' of Jesus in John 14:6?
  10. That is truthfully what my telescope sees in the heavens.
  11. It is true that the Christian worldview conforms with the reality of the world around us.
  12. Etc.
There are so many meanings of truth. To which do you refer?

Oz
John 14.6 is a great definition! :)
 
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Enoch111

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There are so many meanings of truth. To which do you refer?
The OP suggests that God's truth is in view, beginning with the One who is Truth (Jn 14:6). The only truth which matters ultimately is God's truth, which is clearly revealed in Scripture. And without the New Birth no one can see this truth, which pertains to the Kingdom of God.
 
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farouk

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farouk,

John 14:6 (NABRE) states, 'Jesus said to him, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me'.

Is it a great definition or a statement from Jesus that needs further explanation?

Oz
I have long believed that an understanding of the Person of Christ and of the Work of Christ are bound up inseparably.
 

Soverign Grace

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How Important is Truth?
I am the Way, the Truth,, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father except by Me.

50 odd years ago there was a church in I think the city of Indianapolis called the Peoples Temple. The minister there was a gifted and charismatic preacher, hugely popular, endorsed and recommended by some very important and influential people including congressmen and senators and J Edgar Hoover himself (of FBI fame).
The people of his congregation were ordinary people like you and me, searching for a spiritual home in which to worship and bring their families.
One such person presented to the minister one day some concerns over a particular doctrinal matter. It appeared to the parishioner that the minister’s teaching differed somewhat from the Bible and the church member was asking for an explanation. The minister’s response was something along these lines: “Don’t worry about that, what is really important is people. Here in our church we believe that loving one another is more important than a few doctrines. Love is what we are about here.”
The minister’s name was the Rev. Jim Jones. Most of the 900 members of his congregation died in Guyana after a mass suicide from drinking poisoned cool-ade.
Folks, truth is important.

20 years ago I shared my faith with my brother-in-law. For 3 hours we poured over the scriptures, which brought answers to his every objection to my faith. Not long after he went overseas with his family chasing a dream. He returned 10 years later penniless, the dream unrealised, in debt, and blind. Yet stubbornly cleaving to the dream.
Folks, truth is important.

20 years ago an uncle and aunty of mine came to stay with us for a while. They witnessed our lifestyle, heard our prayers, saw what God had done for and in us. Within a few weeks of leaving my uncle had a heart attack and died.
Folks, truth is important.

18 years ago I was discussing doctrinal differences with my Christian employer. He agreed that my and my churches’ understanding of scripture made sense and was biblically consistent. Two weeks later he had a heart attack right in front of me, and despite over two hours of CPR , he died.
Folks, truth is important.

12 years ago I was invited by a neighbour to participate in a series of Bible studies at their home, based on the well known and popular ‘40 days of purpose’ by Rick Warren. Early on I noticed some teachings of Warren’s with which I disagreed. I prepared a bible study and shared this with my hosts on another evening. He and his wife both agreed with my view, but asked that I not bring it up with the other participants, saying “what is important is people, let us just love one another”. Sound familiar? One month after the end of the series, my neighbour had a heart attack, and died.
Folks, truth is important.

Apart from perhaps the Jim Jones saga, I am not suggesting in any way that those deaths were a result of rejecting truth. The point I wish to stress in this thread is two-fold. One, we must embrace truth to it’s absolute fullest while we can-for we do not know what tomorrow may bring. Not only in respect to our mortality here on earth, but also in respect to the soon coming of our Saviour to bring an end to this sin-sick world. Second point is by way of a challenge. How important to you is truth? Have you received a love of the truth, such a love that falsehood has become offensive to you? Such a love that a lie becomes an abomination? Do you love truth as an eternal principle, or do you love that which you believe to be true. There is a huge difference between loving TRUTH, as a principle of life, and loving the doctrine, practice, or tradition you currently believe in, thinking it to be true. Because unless you love TRUTH, your doctrine which you hold so dear could very well be a lie. ( 2Thess. 2:10-12.)
This is a salvation issue folks. The doctrines I was discussing with those now deceased were important. They are hotly debated on these forums every day. Let me state unequivocally, that if the weight of scriptural evidence is not in your favour with respect to any particular doctrine, you are wrong not to at least investigate the possibility that you could be in error. And if on concluding your investigation the weight of evidence still stands against you, then you are wrong if you do not accept and adopt a different stance.
British philosopher W.K.Clifford once said,” It is always wrong, everywhere and for everyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.”
Folks, truth is important. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. You reject truth, you reject the author and foundation of truth. Unless you are sincerely and honestly willing to give up any current belief if the scriptures so direct, then you do not love truth, and the very real danger there is, as Paul warns in 2 Thess., you will accept a lie, even the antichrist himself.
How important is Truth?
It is the Cornerstone of the church. It is the Foundation upon which rests everything we build. It is the Rock which is immoveable and supports our faith. It is the Vine through which we are fed. It is the Bread which nourishes us and sanctifies us.
TRUTH. Embrace it. Love it. Cleave to it.
If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Regards
Brakelite.
I was glad you included Warren; from what I've read about him, he really deviates from Scripture. He published some book for leaders that basically attempts to force his beliefs on recalcitrant congregants or else they're ostracized - something like that. He positively scares me with his "Chrislam" ideas. He is also influential as he's on the Council of Foreign Relations. It appears he has sold his soul for a respectable spot at the table of important people. George Soros is a frightening character, who manipulates pastors for his ends, even though by admission, he's not a Christian. So many pastors have not held to the truth.

So many people lie now. One of my family members just had a dealing with someone and they lied and stole a lot of money. There was no compunction about lying or theft. People seem to have grown worse - more immoral. It's refreshing when you meet someone who speaks the truth.

I believe God has impressed on me, just within the past few months how important Truth is. We're in such times of a falling away of the truth, and seeing the church compromise with the world that I think God is renewing how important truth is. This is a timely message Brakelite.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgement: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Psalm 33:4
For the word of the Lord is right; and all his works are done in truth.

[Jesus said] "I came to bring truth to the world. All who love the truth recognize that what I say is true" (John 18:37).
 
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OzSpen

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The OP suggests that God's truth is in view, beginning with the One who is Truth (Jn 14:6). The only truth which matters ultimately is God's truth, which is clearly revealed in Scripture. And without the New Birth no one can see this truth, which pertains to the Kingdom of God.

Enoch,

Most of the examples of truth I gave in #31 were taken from my Bauer, Arndt & Gingrich Greek Lexicon of the NT and Early Christian Literature (1957:35-36).

They are biblical explanations of truth. Thus, aletheia (truth), has many NT meanings.

My post was to alert those who read this thread to the truth that truly there are many meanings of truth in the NT.

What is the meaning of aletheia in Phil 1:18 (ESV)?

Oz
 
B

brakelite

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@brakelite

Your question is, "How important truth"? For a believer it is or should be very important. So then as per the verses you suggested in the OP I proceed as I see it:

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." II Thess 2:10-12


Verse 10 speaks not of knowing the truth, but rather of loving it. Can we love the truth without knowing it perfectly and completely?

Jesus speaks in the following verse of what knowledge of the truth will do?


"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

And what again is the truth?

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

So then if we know Jesus we know the Truth, right? And then...

"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him." John 14:7

Knowing Jesus according to that verse, it appears we would also know his Father.

How well do we know Jesus? How well do we know the truth? Are any of us deluded because we do not love the truth though we believe that we do? Do any of us love the doctrines we support and the conclusions of ourselves and/or our church groups rather than the truth itself? They are two different things.

Is there not only one truth and it is known incompletely by us all who are not yet overcomers as Jesus was an overcomer? Are we not all in that same boat with Paul with regard to our knowledge of truth?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

Since all of us, as Paul when he wrote those words, see through a glass darkly, we do NOT know the truth or at least not all of it. Is this not so?

So back to the question of loving truth without knowing it.

When we love the truth, we should then have salvation even if we do not know all the truth or what we do know is "through a glass darkly".

What was it again that knowing the truth does? It makes us free. As we grow then in our walk toward God and His Son, knowing more and better what the truth is, are we not being "made free" in that which we no longer only believe but know?

We can love the truth all of the time without knowing it perfectly and as a result be "saved". As we know the truth more completely and clearly ["face to face"] we become [are made] freer and freer of the things within us which would lead us astray away from the salvation which is ours.

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world" I John 2:16


In another place it is written:

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Heb 12:2


That speaks of the end of faith where we believe and love the truth that we have and when we have overcome all of the obstructions and imperfections that stand between us and God, are we not then arrived at that perfect knowledge [no more by faith] of the truth that we always loved?

My point, is that if we love truth without knowing it completely we are saved, but we are not yet overcomers of all that there is for us to overcome. Overcomers, the ones who like Jesus have overcome it all, no longer only believe and love the truth, but know and love the truth. We can be in error on this point or on that point of our beliefs and our doctrines while still loving truth. We are, or should be, led by the Holy Spirit to all truth. That's OK so long as we remain on the road, that is the highway of holiness. That road with the Holy Spirit leading brings to us that face to face knowledge... if we endure to the end of our road. And IF we have that love of truth all the way, we are saved all the way along the way.

What really happens to people is that they look this way and misstep, and then that way and misstep, instead of always keeping their eyes of Jesus.
Can we become overcomers?
Can we move from through a glass darkly to face to face?
Can we move from faith to knowledge?

We can but the love of truth is essential all along that road toward that perfect seven fold Light. People do step off of the pathway at their peril. But God is a merciful God who will help us at any time, until we have run out of time. Which person knows how much time he has left?
I think we could summarise it by saying that we ought to live according to what truth (light) we have. If we reject light, or deny it, we reject Christ.
 
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brakelite

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Is the seventh day adevntist church all about keeping the law?
No. But but when the Sabbath is raised as a false concept we defend the sacredness of the Sabbath because we believe the law is sacred. Of course for those who have no respect for Sabbath, it is to be expected that their only excuse is to demonstrate a lack of respect or regard for law. There is a name for that... Lawless.