I see epi's point, the Bible tells us there are teachers, apostles, prophets, evangilists and pastors! They are supposed to be the shepherds of the flock, not the teachers. A true called teacher may not be a pastor (shepherd) and a pastor may not be a teacher, yet they are paid to be everything. We have people being called to one and end up doing them all. This is exactly why God told us there are 4 others. So why is it we have denominations set-up to only pay pastors? If there is a pastor, where is the teacher? If we find a teacher, where are his wages?
How Is a Pastor's Salary Determined ?
- Thread starter Hollyrock
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
If there are so few real prophets, why would you surmise there would be more true pastors? Where does this reasoning come from?
There are as many woe verses directed at pastors as there are towards prophets! Why the bias?
tomwebster
New Member
- Dec 11, 2006
- 2,041
- 107
- 0
- 76
Before I answer that I need to discover if we are talking about the same thing. What is the job of a pastor? What is the job of a prophet? Are the positions interchangeable?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Every church I have ever worked at, the minister was on call 24 hours a day - not technically, but in reality he was. Real ministers, not televangelists, are always extremely busy caring for their flock, even if programs at the church are minimal. I believe the majority of ministers out there are underpaid.
I have a funny joke about this:
A man was writing a book on tithing in the church, and wanted to know how each religion deciphered how much the church received and how much the pastor would get. Well, he interviewed a priest, a southern baptist preacher and a rabbi. The priest walked in, and the author asked, "How do you decide how much you get, and how much the church gets?" The priest said, "Well, I draw a circle in the middle of the floor and I take the money and throw it in the air... Whatever lands in the middle of the circle the church gets, and whatever lands outside the circle, I get." The author writes it down, and the southern baptist preacher walks in, and the author once again asked, "How do you decide how much you get, and how much the church gets?" The preacher said, "Well, I draw a line in the middle of the floor, and I throw the money up... What lands on the left side of the line the church gets and what lands on the other side, I get." The author wrote that down and the rabbi walks in. The author once again asked, "How do you decide how much money you get, and how much the church gets?" The rabbi looks at the author, and says... "Well, I take the money in my hand, say a prayer, throw the money up and whatever God needs I figure he'll grab, and I'll take whatever hits the floor."
A man was writing a book on tithing in the church, and wanted to know how each religion deciphered how much the church received and how much the pastor would get. Well, he interviewed a priest, a southern baptist preacher and a rabbi. The priest walked in, and the author asked, "How do you decide how much you get, and how much the church gets?" The priest said, "Well, I draw a circle in the middle of the floor and I take the money and throw it in the air... Whatever lands in the middle of the circle the church gets, and whatever lands outside the circle, I get." The author writes it down, and the southern baptist preacher walks in, and the author once again asked, "How do you decide how much you get, and how much the church gets?" The preacher said, "Well, I draw a line in the middle of the floor, and I throw the money up... What lands on the left side of the line the church gets and what lands on the other side, I get." The author wrote that down and the rabbi walks in. The author once again asked, "How do you decide how much money you get, and how much the church gets?" The rabbi looks at the author, and says... "Well, I take the money in my hand, say a prayer, throw the money up and whatever God needs I figure he'll grab, and I'll take whatever hits the floor."
A spiritual man works in a spiritual capacity. Time in the Spirit has no meter on it. Godliness is not for profit...at least not monetary. Mammon is not at all compatible with God.
tomwebster
New Member
- Dec 11, 2006
- 2,041
- 107
- 0
- 76
The apostles were supported in their needs. That IS biblical. Salaries are for mercenaries. Even the word soldier comes from solde...which means salary. So no one should get a salary for God's work. A workman of God is supported by giving the basic necessities in life.
A worker of God is to be an example to the flock...living sacrificially. There are very few of these indeed! Most religious types see godliness as gain. This is cursed in the bible.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Well, this is what Mormons believe and practice. Unfortunately, when you do not pay someone a salary, you only get volunteers and volunteers are not educated in theology. So if you want someone without seminary training, go with a volunteer model.
Prentis
New Member
Goodness... Yeah... Who would want Peter to do the work of the Lord? Or John? :huh:
They were unlearned and so was Jesus. You can have all the theological education you want, and just be the biggest Pharisee. Theology does NOT equal a spiritual man. God working through a man equals God's worker.
If you have people that are NOT volunteers, it is evil in the sight of God, because they are there for pay, and not the work of God. If a man will not work for God for free, God will not have him work for him at all. Of course God takes care of those who work for him... But not to give them things for their lust, rather that they might live.
Serving God to live is evil... Living to serve God is right.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
FHII
Well-Known Member
- Apr 9, 2011
- 4,833
- 2,494
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Yea, that's pretty much how I feel about what Prentis had to say too.
Paul didn't draw a salary. All the money was his. What he did with it is another matter. A good pastor is worthy of "a salary" equal to 100% of the offering. But he also then takes 100% of the responsibility.
Switching gears somewhat, do any of you know about what the gov't has to say about this? It has relevance. Churches tend to relish the tax exempt status offered to them if they jump through certain hoops. The Bible says 100% of the offering goes to the Pastor (or Apostle, prophet, evangelist, etc). Again, he has responsibilities after that. So it's not like he can be a real Man of God, and keep 100%.
But the Gov't has placed limits on the what a Pastor can draw from the offering, if they wish to keep their tax exempt status. Anyone know what that percent is? From what I've heard it's 30%. I think it's wrong for the gov't to place that on a Pastor, but by the Bible way, it would probably come to about that amount.
By the way, as much as I hate prosperity Pastors, I support them to some degree against the likes of Charles Grassley. You can bad mouth Creflo Dollar all you want (what a name for a prosperity preacher!), but if you get to know the situation, you'd understand a bit better. He made a lot of money off his books, which were not property of the Church. He, by law, was allowed to take 10 or so million as salary. He also had other business ventures. So when Chuckie Grassley looks at his lifestyle, it ain't all illegal. Furthermore, it's none of anyone's business by Biblical code of conduct.
Again, his preaching is wrong from what I've heard him say. But his fight is right.
By the way, Tomwebster... Since you've done that job, I defer to you if I'm wrong.....
tomwebster
New Member
- Dec 11, 2006
- 2,041
- 107
- 0
- 76
So you think walking with and learning from Christ for several years is not a Seminary education? What makes you think they were uneducated?
Prentis
New Member
The word says it clearly!
[sup]13[/sup] When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.
God takes the weak things of the world. They were fishermen... Not scholars! On the other hand, the Pharisees were scholars!
Of course, one cannot make a rule out of this, that scholars are always hypocrites and fishermen always good men. But what it shows is that being a spiritual man has nothing to do with education. Hence, one can come out of seminary no more qualified than someone who's been catching fish all his life.
Actually, often less qualified. Jesus told the scholars of his time that tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom before them... Why? Because they can be taught the ways of the Lord, and have not made up their own way to godliness.
FHII
Well-Known Member
- Apr 9, 2011
- 4,833
- 2,494
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
I liked Tom's questions to you Prentis, but you didn't answer both of them.
The Bible does say the Pharisees considered them unlearned. I had a feeling you'd bring that verse up. However, that was their opinion. You hinted at that when you said, "they weren't scholars and the pharisees were". However, Tom's first question is pretty valid. They were with Jesus for 3 years, and it was hands on 24/7 schooling.
Furthermore, when you look at Acts 2, you see one of Peter's first sermons where he deals with what the scripture says very skilfully. Perhaps he got that all from Jesus, but it could very well be he was taught the Bible from an early age. We've talked about whether he was literate or not, and I do believe he was... It would be pretty tough to get to know the Bible without being able to read it. Not impossible, but pretty tough.
You also included Jesus in that "unlearned" bunch. Aside that he was the son of God, he did have a former education. I can't say to what extent, but the Bible says he did. If you go back to the last 4 or 5 verses of Luke 2, you will see he studied in the temple with Doctors, he learned and increased in wisdom.... I'm not ready to say he had a degree or anything, but the Bible does say he "went to school" around the age of 12.
I do see your point, however, in the overall scope of things. God uses highly educated men like Paul and Elisha (not sure, but I think he did go to a school for prophets), as well as mere children and non educated folk like Jeramiah. He even uses regular ole' dumb asses sometimes!
- Dec 31, 2010
- 5,185
- 2,390
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Nobody (preachers) wants to start small. Everyone wants an established church. If there is an anointing and people like you you can start out in a vacated building and your ministry will grow. You will get paid well because the people will have the heart to treat you well. John Osteen started Lakewood in 1959 in an abandoned feed store after getting the Baptism in the Holy Ghost. . By 1979 the attendance was over 5,000.
I find that many ministers today simply do not love people. As a result the people do not want to treat them well in return.
I find that many ministers today simply do not love people. As a result the people do not want to treat them well in return.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Tom did make a good point - the disciples started out uneducated, but they learned more every minute they were in the presence of Christ.
How does this compare with the head knowledge that seminaries have replaced actual experience with Christ with? No one gets a salary for knowing Christ. But if you attend a seminary and get a man made diploma...then men who are carnal will pay them since they appear to be more qualified than the average person.
But these men are leading the others nowhere!
This thread is not about Christianity but about the facade called Churchianity.
- Dec 31, 2010
- 5,185
- 2,390
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD - Jeremiah 23:1, 2
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Similar threads
