How much ungodly behavior do you see in the church?

[CoreIssue]

What "Oneness" issue? I doubt I have ever even mentioned their ideas anywhere.

It has come up you were defensive.

 

[Nancy]

Well, our "threshing" and what they did back then (and still do in some countries today) are quite a bit different.

An interesting side note is that the oriental num-chuk weapon is derived from the sticks they used to thresh wheat.

That poor wheat, sure did get a beating!
oriental num-chuk weapon photos - - Yahoo Image Search Results

 

[Willie T]

This is the wheat threshing stick in action:

 

[Soverign Grace]

I would argue that Scripture tells us that ppl are put in positions of authority by God, but I don't mean to imply that they should be followed either, "do what they say, and not what they do," so you have me in a weird position here, I would rather be arguing your side lol.

Bam pray for their removal if you are led to, pls don't get me wrong, but imo this indicates where one's focus is...dang, which I don't mean "is a bad thing" necessarily, ok, institutions and even "the world" are not by def "bad" or "evil" I don't think.

But wadr I would say that God puts everyone where they are?

We all know that there are mysteries in the Christian faith, but when we as Christians recognize that an individual is committing evil, either blatantly or covertly, then I believe that it's our duty to pray for their removal from whatever position they're in. We can later pray for their salvation, if we're so led.

I hope everyone joins me in prayer for the removal of those attempting to lead America into Socialism. We know who those people are. I've read that a lot of people are afraid of Ocasio and her wild beliefs. We began prayer for it last night. If it worked to remove a corrupt principal, it can work to remove those who are a positive harm to Christians and our Nation. I urge everyone to join in prayer for this and for border security. I have such an uneasy feeling that someone is going to sneak through with evil intentions. It's not hard to imagine that they would go after a nuclear facility. All the politicians will be ushered into safety to the shelters that our blood, sweat, and tears paid for, while we'll be left outside to fry. I hope everyone takes this seriously. If you don't contact your representatives and complain then who will?

 

[CoreIssue]

ALL churches in the USA have a history of racism. Many churches did things like support slavery from the pulpit or forbid "blacks" from entering "white" churches. For the LDS church: LDS have always been anti slavery and had congregations that welcomed all resources-- stances which contributed to LDS people being violently evicted out of the slave state of Missouri. During early church days, blacks were included in LDS priesthood, but after the Missouri (and Illinois) fallout, the policy became to not have LDS black men be priests. This policy was later reversed in 1978.

The history of religion and politics and race is a very long and complicated one for all American churches.

Joseph Smith and Brigham Young supported slavery.

The only reason they got off of the black issue was because of pressure from government. Same as with polygamy.

 

[Soverign Grace]

ALL churches in the USA have a history of racism. Many churches did things like support slavery from the pulpit or forbid "blacks" from entering "white" churches. For the LDS church: LDS have always been anti slavery and had congregations that welcomed all resources-- stances which contributed to LDS people being violently evicted out of the slave state of Missouri. During early church days, blacks were included in LDS priesthood, but after the Missouri (and Illinois) fallout, the policy became to not have LDS black men be priests. This policy was later reversed in 1978.

The history of religion and politics and race is a very long and complicated one for all American churches.

That those who claimed to be Christians in any denomination that did this at all is shocking. It shows how deceived man can be. I wondered the same thing about Hitler. How was he able to convince an entire nation of people that murdering a people because of their heritage was okay. I know about group-think situations, but entire nations is another story altogether. Did they all have seared consciences? Of course we know about the sinful state of unregenerate man but I think Satan has more to do with politics and evils such as this than we realize.

A psychological experiment was conducted by a researcher named Milgram. It was the closest I could get to the reason, other than the Kitty Genovese syndrome:

The Milgram experiment on obedience to authority figures was a series of social psychology experiments conducted by Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram. They measured the willingness of study participants, men from a diverse range of occupations with varying levels of education, to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts conflicting with their personal conscience. Participants were led to believe that they were assisting an unrelated experiment, in which they had to administer electric shocks to a "learner." These fake electric shocks gradually increased to levels that would have been fatal had they been real.[2]

The experiment found, unexpectedly, that a very high proportion of men would fully obey the instructions, albeit reluctantly. Milgram first described his research in a 1963 article in the Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology[1] and later discussed his findings in greater depth in his 1974 book, Obedience to Authority: An Experimental View.[3]

 

[Jane_Doe22]

That those who claimed to be Christians did this at all is shocking. It shows how deceived man can be. I wondered the same thing about Hitler. How was he able to convince an entire nation of people that murdering a people because of their heritage was okay. I know about group-think situations, but entire nations is another story altogether. Did they all have seared consciences? Of course we know about the sinful state of unregenerate man but I think Satan has more to do with politics and evils such as this than we realize.

A psychological experiment was conducted by a researcher named Milgram. It was the closest I could get to the reason, other than the Kitty Genovese syndrome:

The Milgram experiment on obedience to authority figures was a series of social psychology experiments conducted by Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram. They measured the willingness of study participants, men from a diverse range of occupations with varying levels of education, to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts conflicting with their personal conscience. Participants were led to believe that they were assisting an unrelated experiment, in which they had to administer electric shocks to a "learner." These fake electric shocks gradually increased to levels that would have been fatal had they been real.[2]

The experiment found, unexpectedly, that a very high proportion of men would fully obey the instructions, albeit reluctantly. Milgram first described his research in a 1963 article in the Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology[1] and later discussed his findings in greater depth in his 1974 book, Obedience to Authority: An Experimental View.[3]

If a person just follows the crowd of men, so often horrible things happen. All the more reason to make sure each of us individually read scriptures, pray, and speak with God.

 

[Soverign Grace]

If a person just follows the crowd of men, so often horrible things happen. All the more reason to make sure each of us individually read scriptures, pray, and speak with God.

That's true. I've come more into the realization that anyone - even pastors, can be deceived. I've seen entire churches deceived, so yes, following any crowd must be done carefully and likewise leading a crowd. The one church we went to was an example. The church leaders said that God put them in positions of authority and church members were to submit to them. That was such dangerous thinking because they avoided self-examination. You can get several people who form an "agreement" among themselves that is delusional. Some of Satan's most artful works must be infiltrating the church. I've been reading up on it lately as to how he can interject thoughts into someone so that they believe those thoughts to come from ones self or even God. James Dobson addressed it pretty good in his book "Emotions" but it still requires a lot of discernment. I've been looking for some good resources but there is so much misleading information around that it takes a lot of sifting through to find a pearl. It's really hard to find sound teaching. I've been looking through books on Amazon for a book on snares of the enemy. I just haven't found anything that seems to really seems to cover it in depth. I believe that the church took it seriously in times past but today sermons and teaching seems to avoid the topic or just touch on it and miss many of the enemy's ploys.

 

[Soverign Grace]

I had a rough day which lends me to more Christian study. At least God is using hard times for a purpose. I happened across a website titled "Deception in the Church." I thought I'd share the statement on there that has relevance to what we were discussing.

Dr. Robert Schuller joined David Yonggi Cho in Sicily's first Church Growth conference in March, visiting Pope John Paul II en route. Korean Cho pastors the world's largest church. The 9/19/94 Christian News called Cho "a charismatic and occultist who rejects historic Christianity." It was "the fourth time Schuller and the Pope had met, hand-to-hand, heart-to-heart at the Vatican." (5-6/98 Foundation). The Pope expressed interest in how their churches could work together in the Vatican's preparation for the Year 2000 Jubilee celebrations.

"There is a toleration which is treachery. There is a peace which issues in paralysis. There are hours when the church must say NO to those who should ask communion with her, in the doing of her work, upon the basis of compromise. Such standing aloof may produce ostracism and persecution, but it will maintain power and influence....The Church today has destroyed her own influence by compromise." - G. Campbell Morgan

 

[brakelite]

I've been looking through books on Amazon for a book on snares of the enemy.

Religious Trends

 

[bbyrd009]

We all know that there are mysteries in the Christian faith

!
I know of no mysteries in the Christian faith that a 4 year old could not understand, sorry.
And fwiw Paul has a discourse on this too

...but when we as Christians recognize that an individual is committing evil, either blatantly or covertly, then I believe that it's our duty to pray for their removal from whatever position they're in.

yes, you have made this plain, but what you have not done is supply the Scriptural analogue wadr. Ty

 

[bbyrd009]

I hope everyone joins me in prayer for the removal of those attempting to lead America into Socialism.

Ok, so no offense, but I hope no one joins you, and I find no Scriptural analogue for your corporate prayer about the world that we are called to leave.

"Socialism" lol, Jesus already SG, really? You wanna corporate prayer against socialism?

 

[bbyrd009]

I have such an uneasy feeling that someone is going to sneak through with evil intentions. It's not hard to imagine that they would go after a nuclear facility. All the politicians will be ushered into safety to the shelters that our blood, sweat, and tears paid for, while we'll be left outside to fry. I hope everyone takes this seriously. If you don't contact your representatives and complain then who will?

Yes, I understand that you are afraid ok, and I don't mean to make light of that, if you seek immortality you should def be very afraid, but a believer is to fear no evil. So wadr please stop, ty

 

[Soverign Grace]

Religious Trends

Thanks Brakelite! You might enjoy this website: The Catholic Connection

 

[Soverign Grace]

!
I know of no mysteries in the Christian faith that a 4 year old could not understand, sorry.
And fwiw Paul has a discourse on this too
yes, you have made this plain, but what you have not done is supply the Scriptural analogue wadr. Ty

People down through the centuries have sought to understand God and I had to come to a point of realizing that "His ways are past finding out."

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!" - Rom 11:33

 

[bbyrd009]

People down through the centuries have sought to understand God and I had to come to a point of realizing that "His ways are past finding out."

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!" - Rom 11:33

Great reflection, diff subject. The Decalogue contains no mysteries imo, and there is no mystery in seeing why ppl do not want to leave the world, nor in why we seek to justify our position on the fence with "Jesus," etc

 

[amadeus]

Well, my truth is Bible oriented, hers is Mormon oriented, so we can't both be right.,

Or only one could right; or both could be wrong. Naturally, each of us believes we are right; or if we are at all sincere, we would change, or at least try to change. You believe the Bible is correct and so do most of us here. Some here would throw out part of the Bible. You presume there is no truth in the Book of Mormon, but that is not correct. Much of what is written in that book paraphrases very closely what is written in the Bible.

Pay attention to what the Bible says about false Stockton, teachers, profits etc. and didn't revelation the warnings against accepting and in tolerating such beliefs.

The above sentence as I read it is nonsensical. Please correct it and repost. Thanks

You don't get it I guess. Mormons have a different God, different scriptures, different prophets and a different Christ.

Some men have decided this is the case. I don't believe the Mormons decided it. But you are not interested in what they would say for themselves. Are you the judge, the jury and also the executioner?

I also don't believe God has decided it. Do you presume to speak as the final interpreter for God? Pull in your horns and learn to speak softly.

That is not looking at Christianity with a different view. It isn't Christian. It isn't truth.

And of course everything that you have, that you believe is truth. All of the other Christians or Christian groups [denominations] who disagree with you have to be in error!

What you're saying is apostasy. Time to rethink your position after some serious Bible study on the subject.

So then, @Jane_Doe22 @Heart2Soul @amadeus and @anyone else here who defends her even in part is necessarily in error because you know, rather than simply believe, all of God's Truth perfectly?

 

[amadeus]

But wadr I would say that God puts everyone where they are?

Or everyone places themselves where they are as a result of their response or lack thereof to Him!

 

[Taken]

What "Oneness" issue? I doubt I have ever even mentioned their ideas anywhere.

The thing is Willie T....

You do not have to mention ANYTHING in particular....

There are Plenty of people HERE...WHO are more than WILLING TO TALK "FOR YOU"...

THEN "endlessly" BASH what "THEY HAVE SAID FOR YOU"...!!!

Dave L. Does that...
BOL Does that...
And so do others...

I think it is beyond "immoral" and "unethical",
And possibly a mental disorder.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

~ amadeus ~

I look from this point of view...

All people are naturally born AGAINST GOD.

All people have FREEWILL, to hear, learn, follow, dabble then wander off, stay with the learning, wander in and wander out, as they please, or completely reject and stay away.

All people have the same FREEWILL choices toward Christ Jesus.

And the FACT is there is a CLAUSE...according to God...
Such as OT men, who ONLY "heard" of God, AND were Faithful...they ARE Gods People.
AND
Such as NT men, who "heard of God and Christ Jesus"....they must believe IN BOTH, to be accounted as "IN" Christ.

NOW ABOUT MEN...
THE FACT IS:

EVERY natural born person, has a NUMBER of DAYS he will Live..

And during that Individuals days of his life...
HE gets to Freely Choose "IF" and "WHEN" HE "will or will not"..hear and Learn about God, about Christ Jesus.

Some men choose at a young age, some not until they are 50 or 80 years old.

It doesn't really Matter if a person is 5 or 85, they ALL HAVE TO LEARN from the Beginning AS A BABE.

Learning IS A PROCESS. The BABE can not BE weened, simply because he is 85 yrs old.

And the FACT IS....UNDERSTANDING....comes long AFTER the WEENING process.

And the FACT IS....some men mature in AGE, WANT the "understanding"....when they are still SUCKING MILK.

AND NOW CONSIDER THE TEACHER....

Corrupt TEACHERS are a dime a dozen.
Which is to SAY, their TEACHING GOES BEYOND the KNOWLEDGE of the Word of God....TO DICTATING...what the "student must Beilive" IS the UNDERSTANDING, the Teacher SAYS IS SO.

Inanutshell, that IS INDOCTRINATION.

I can speak the Word of God, to the LIMIT, as I know it.
I can speak the UNDERSTANDING of the Word of God, to the LIMIT, as it APPLIES TO ME.

BUT SOME TEACHERS WILL DICTATE WHAT I CLAIM APPLIES TO ME.....IS FALSE.

THAT is the whole crux, of nearly every argument on these type of forums.

Other men DECIDING they are qualified to KNOW what I have chosen, what I do, how much time I spend doing it.....AS IF...

"THEY" have been APPOINTED to SEARCH MY HEART....LOL....well that is a FALLACY...

Only God and myself KNOW my Heart....and the same applies to everyone else.

And the FACT IS, there may be MANY men ON the SAME PATH....but they are Definitely NOT AT THE SAME "DISTANCE".

God Bless you and your wife,
Taken