How much ungodly behavior do you see in the church?

[Enoch111]

The Athanasian view of God ("the Trinity) is not being discussed here. LDS do not believe in homoousios, rather believe the Father/Son/Spirit to be one God through unity. That theological context is ESSENTIAL for even starting to address these non-canonical speculations.

The LDS church believes that Joseph Smith was a prophet speaking by divine inspiration. Also for Mormons, the Pearl of Great Price and the Book of Abraham are canonical. The Book of Abraham calls Elohim "Gods" in Genesis, and Joseph Smith clearly taught a plurality of Gods (which was supported by other Mormon *prophets*). So if you disagree with your own church's beliefs, then you should not even be associated with them.

 

[bbyrd009]

Whether God put that person there or not is uncertain. We can't ever say for certain whether God put anyone anywhere.

I would argue that Scripture tells us that ppl are put in positions of authority by God, but I don't mean to imply that they should be followed either, "do what they say, and not what they do," so you have me in a weird position here, I would rather be arguing your side lol.

Bam pray for their removal if you are led to, pls don't get me wrong, but imo this indicates where one's focus is...dang, which I don't mean "is a bad thing" necessarily, ok, institutions and even "the world" are not by def "bad" or "evil" I don't think.

But wadr I would say that God puts everyone where they are?

 

[bbyrd009]

The way I looked at it was that he was in a position where he was causing harm. We prayed and God evidently answered.

ok, not saying that isn't true, but I am having trouble finding a Scriptural analogue? Could you Quote the passage you deem relevant here? ty

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The LDS church believes that Joseph Smith was a prophet speaking by divine inspiration. Also for Mormons, the Pearl of Great Price and the Book of Abraham are canonical. The Book of Abraham calls Elohim "Gods" in Genesis, and Joseph Smith clearly taught a plurality of Gods (which was supported by other Mormon *prophets*). So if you disagree with your own church's beliefs, then you should not even be associated with them.

Again, LDS believe in ONE God. Multiple persons (Father, Son, Spirit), ONE God. The difference between the LDS view and the Athanasian view is on *how* they are one: LDS via unity, Athanasian via homoousios. God consisting of multiple persons is shown throughout scriptures, even in the very word Elohim.

The passage you quoted earlier is called the "King Follett Discourse". It is not a piece of scripture even to LDS, and an LDS person is completely free to disagree with it if they that's their conclusion after study/prayer. Zero LDS persons has the interpretation of it that you are having right now, due to the the theological points I've discussed thus far and several others.

 

[CoreIssue]

"No", both cannot be "right." But, both CAN be wrong (and probably ARE) on a variety of points and issues.

You are injecting your thinking here.

 

[Willie T]

You are injecting your thinking here.

Well, SOMEONE has to do some thinking... not much is showing up in a lot of these posts.

 

[Soverign Grace]

That is false. Just like you as a woman claiming to be a temple Mormon. Just like the book of Mormon is a lie.

While on that try to defend the book of Mormon.

How about the statues of Moroni on top of temples?

This account is by an exmormon who worked in the Mormon temple in Manti. He asked me to make it available here.
My Temple Experience, by a Former Temple Worker

Mormons before 2019: “the temple isn’t sexist!!” Mormons in 2019: “isn’t it great that the temple isn’t sexist anymore?!?” : exmormon

Recovery from Mormonism - the Mormon Church

Care to explain Joseph Smith, the angel Moroni and the hill Camorra? Why should any Bible believer accept this?

Notice this link is LDS.
Hill Cumorah

Ex-Mormon Shares Secrets From the Church of Latter-day Saints

Ex-Mormon Testimonies

It is obvious you are lying deliberately.

Why do they say the Mormon church is racist?

 

[CoreIssue]

From official Mormon sources:
Articles of Faith 1
The Articles of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Chapter 1
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

God distinct from Son and Holy Spirit

8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

Joseph Smith.

Bible Dictionary

God
The supreme Governor of the universe and the Father of mankind. We learn from the revelations that have been given that there are three separate persons in the Godhead: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. From latter-day revelation we learn that the Father and the Son have tangible bodies of flesh and bone and that the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit without flesh and bone (D&C 130:22–23).

When one speaks of God, it is generally the Father who is referred to; that is, Elohim. All mankind are His children. The personage known as Jehovah in Old Testament times, and who is usually identified in the Old Testament as Lord (in small capitals), is the Son, known as Jesus Christ, and who is also a God. Jesus works under the direction of the Father and is in complete harmony with Him. All mankind are His brethren and sisters, He being the eldest of the spirit children of Elohim. Many of the things that the scripture says were done by God were actually done by the Lord (Jesus). Thus the scripture says that “God created the heaven and the earth” (Gen. 1:1), but we know that it was actually the Lord (Jesus) who was the creator (John 1:3, 10), or as Paul said, God created all things by Christ Jesus (Eph. 3:9). The Holy Ghost is also a God and is variously called the Holy Spirit, the Spirit, the Spirit of God, etc.

 

[CoreIssue]

Well, SOMEONE has to do some thinking... not much is showing up in a lot of these posts.

Still touchy about the Oneness issue I see.

 

[Soverign Grace]

You know what I mean. If you feel you have to, link to anything. But, the nasty insults are totally unnecessary.

The problem is it is YOUR truth not hers....does that make any sense? So to attack her belief only causes her to defend it at all cost....I truly believe that we will all (those who are part of HIS CHURCH) come to a place of agreement and be in one mind and one accord...this is what God spoke to me about awhile back and I shared it here....everyone on this forum have different doctrines of faith to which they adhere to....and most if not all believe in Jesus as the Messiah, God as the Father and the Holy Spirit....what separates us is that we don't agree with each others way of interpreting scripture. The Holy Spirit is opening the eyes and ears and hearts to understand the true meaning of scripture to those who are seeking truth. We are all growing at different levels of truth....so bottom line is if I or you or anyone here tries to shove our truths onto others who aren't ready to receive it yet then we create contention and strife against each other. (and vice versa)...

There is only one truth. History only happened one way. That "place of agreement" is something we need to be careful about. I read that Rick Warren is pushing that one religion mindset, and some pastors are calling it "Chrislam." Christ warned that friendship with the world is enmity with God. We can't deny truth for the sake of getting along. Christ said He came not to bring peace but to bring the sword. I think we can respect others' beliefs but I think we should be wary of melding them. Christ said "Speak the truth in love." We can never come to "one mind" with certain religions without denying what we know to be true.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Why do they say the Mormon church is racist?

ALL churches in the USA have a history of racism. Many churches did things like support slavery from the pulpit or forbid "blacks" from entering "white" churches. For the LDS church: LDS have always been anti slavery and had congregations that welcomed all resources-- stances which contributed to LDS people being violently evicted out of the slave state of Missouri. During early church days, blacks were included in LDS priesthood, but after the Missouri (and Illinois) fallout, the policy became to not have LDS black men be priests. This policy was later reversed in 1978.

The history of religion and politics and race is a very long and complicated one for all American churches.

 

[CoreIssue]

That "place of agreement" is something we need to be careful about. I read that Rick Warren is pushing that, and some pastors are calling it "Chrislam." Christ warned that friendship with the world is enmity with God. I think we can respect others' beliefs but I think we should be wary of melding them. We can never come to "one mind" with certain religions without denying what we know to be true.

Excellent point.

 

[Enoch111]

Why do they say the Mormon church is racist?

That may have been true at one time, but the Mormon church has addressed this issue recently in their Doctrines and Covenants.

Official Declaration 2
The Book of Mormon teaches that “all are alike unto God,” including “black and white, bond and free, male and female” (2 Nephi 26:33). Throughout the history of the Church, people of every race and ethnicity in many countries have been baptized and have lived as faithful members of the Church. During Joseph Smith’s lifetime, a few black male members of the Church were ordained to the priesthood. Early in its history, Church leaders stopped conferring the priesthood on black males of African descent. Church records offer no clear insights into the origins of this practice. Church leaders believed that a revelation from God was needed to alter this practice and prayerfully sought guidance. The revelation came to Church President Spencer W. Kimball and was affirmed to other Church leaders in the Salt Lake Temple on June 1, 1978. The revelation removed all restrictions with regard to race that once applied to the priesthood.

As you can seen the LDS church believes that their church leaders receive direct revelations from God.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Well, SOMEONE has to do some thinking... not much is showing up in a lot of these posts.

 

[Heart2Soul]

There is only one truth. History only happened one way. That "place of agreement" is something we need to be careful about. I read that Rick Warren is pushing that, and some pastors are calling it "Chrislam." Christ warned that friendship with the world is enmity with God. We can't deny truth for the sake of getting along. I think we can respect others' beliefs but I think we should be wary of melding them. We can never come to "one mind" with certain religions without denying what we know to be true.

You miss the point....and what I am saying is that every person is convinced that their belief is the truth.....and yes we can come into one mind and one accord as they did on the day of Pentecost....which is simply just having the mind of Christ...being spiritually minded and not carnal.
I asked God one time why there were so many different denominations of Christian faith teaching out of the same Bible but differing in their doctrines of faith that their church was founded on.....simple answer.....while the apostles were around in the NT there was only one church and one doctrine being taught...(the teachings of Jesus). Today there over 44K Christian denominations.....and each of them believe they have the truth....so to argue the Protestant view over the Universal Church view of the Bible is pointless....the Holy Spirit has to be the one to bring us together again into one faith as it was in the NT.

 

[CoreIssue]

ALL churches in the USA have a history of racism. Many churches did things like support slavery from the pulpit or forbid "blacks" from entering "white" churches. For the LDS church: LDS have always been anti slavery and had congregations that welcomed all resources-- stances which contributed to LDS people being violently evicted out of the slave state of Missouri. During early church days, blacks were included in LDS priesthood, but after the Missouri (and Illinois) fallout, the policy became to not have LDS black men be priests. This policy was later reversed in 1978.

The history of religion and politics and race is a very long and complicated one for all American churches.

Book of Moses
Chapter 7
(December 1830)

22 And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them.

 

[Soverign Grace]

That may have been true at one time, but the Mormon church has addressed this issue recently in their Doctrines and Covenants.

Official Declaration 2
The Book of Mormon teaches that “all are alike unto God,” including “black and white, bond and free, male and female” (2 Nephi 26:33). Throughout the history of the Church, people of every race and ethnicity in many countries have been baptized and have lived as faithful members of the Church. During Joseph Smith’s lifetime, a few black male members of the Church were ordained to the priesthood. Early in its history, Church leaders stopped conferring the priesthood on black males of African descent. Church records offer no clear insights into the origins of this practice. Church leaders believed that a revelation from God was needed to alter this practice and prayerfully sought guidance. The revelation came to Church President Spencer W. Kimball and was affirmed to other Church leaders in the Salt Lake Temple on June 1, 1978. The revelation removed all restrictions with regard to race that once applied to the priesthood.

As you can seen the LDS church believes that their church leaders receive direct revelations from God.

I like the faith of some blacks. Early on when I was seeking God, I listened to a fiery black preacher on the radio. My husband and I went to an auditorium where he was speaking. We were the only whites in there outside of one other man. I have never felt so welcomed into a place. This older black woman came up and grabbed our young baby and she took to her and was laughing. I recall her saying: "Babies and dogs! They know who loves 'em!" She was just a really nice woman. I was moved by the warmth that they conveyed to us. It was a rich type of faith that they had that drew me. I can't imagine a church judging someone by their color.

 

[CoreIssue]

That may have been true at one time, but the Mormon church has addressed this issue recently in their Doctrines and Covenants.

Official Declaration 2
The Book of Mormon teaches that “all are alike unto God,” including “black and white, bond and free, male and female” (2 Nephi 26:33). Throughout the history of the Church, people of every race and ethnicity in many countries have been baptized and have lived as faithful members of the Church. During Joseph Smith’s lifetime, a few black male members of the Church were ordained to the priesthood. Early in its history, Church leaders stopped conferring the priesthood on black males of African descent. Church records offer no clear insights into the origins of this practice. Church leaders believed that a revelation from God was needed to alter this practice and prayerfully sought guidance. The revelation came to Church President Spencer W. Kimball and was affirmed to other Church leaders in the Salt Lake Temple on June 1, 1978. The revelation removed all restrictions with regard to race that once applied to the priesthood.

As you can seen the LDS church believes that their church leaders receive direct revelations from God.

Also under doctrines they state prophets are not infallible and make mistakes. So here they are directly contradicting Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

 

[Soverign Grace]

You miss the point....and what I am saying is that every person is convinced that their belief is the truth.....and yes we can come into one mind and one accord as they did on the day of Pentecost....which is simply just having the mind of Christ...being spiritually minded and not carnal.
I asked God one time why there were so many different denominations of Christian faith teaching out of the same Bible but differing in their doctrines of faith that their church was founded on.....simple answer.....while the apostles were around in the NT there was only one church and one doctrine being taught...(the teachings of Jesus). Today there over 44K Christian denominations.....and each of them believe they have the truth....so to argue the Protestant view over the Universal Church view of the Bible is pointless....the Holy Spirit has to be the one to bring us together again into one faith as it was in the NT.

I agree that we can all come into one mind if we all agree on the basics, as long as it's holding to Scripture. But badly deluded people think they're right, like David Koresh. I've been reading this past year about Rick Warrens actions that have a lot of Christians concerned. I think there are abundant warnings in Scripture that we need to stay on guard against any even slight departure from Scripture. That's one of Satan's tactics - he mixes his lies in with the truth. It's good to respect another's beliefs, but we should never compromise the truth that's been revealed to us for the sake of "oneness." No matter how "godly" someone behaves, or how noble, we have to hold to the truth.

Evil in the Last Days
…having a form of godliness but denying its power. Turn away from such as these! 6They are the kind who worm their way into households and captivate vulnerable women who are weighed down with sins and led astray by various passions, 7always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

 

[Willie T]

Still touchy about the Oneness issue I see.

What "Oneness" issue? I doubt I have ever even mentioned their ideas anywhere.