How should we view the Rich Young Ruler?

[St. SteVen]

... the Jews believed that if one had material wealth (from God), that it was God's way of "finding favor" with that person. In other words, the more wealthy you were, the "better" you were, in God's eyes.

Thanks for your clarifying post.
The quote above is a good point. Certainly comes across in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus.
And the Jews felt the same way about health issues. Poor health being a punishment from God.

 

[St. SteVen]

The rich young ruler was a self-righteous lying hypocrite. Jesus tried to convince him that he was a sinner in need of a savior, but he would not admit it. Hell is going to be full of rich young rulers. The wealthy think that they are without sin.

Did you sell all that you possessed in order to follow Jesus?
If not, then who are you to judge?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Interesting point. "... they did not think they needed a savior.."
Being under Roman occupation, they were looking for a political solution, a king.

Easy to lose sight of the BIG picture when someone/something else is oppressing you right now.

remember also. They were under occupation because of their sin.. they had yet to repent of what got them there to begin with.

 

[St. SteVen]

remember also. They were under occupation because of their sin.. they had yet to repent of what got them there to begin with.

Good point.
Do you see Jesus addressing that directly?

 

[Rockerduck]

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about the point of the story of the RYR.

It's not about whether the RYR will go to heaven, hell or Purgatory.
It's not about whether he's a follower of Jesus or not.
It's not about whether he's followed the commandments all his life or he's lying his you-know-what off about following them.
It's not about having to 'sell what you have' in order to follow Jesus.

It's about how it's almost impossible for people who have an attachment to the material world to be 'perfect' enough for heaven. Some people who have a lot of wealth often feel superior to those who don't. Many also feel that they don't need Jesus because they already have what they want. And still for others, no matter how much they have NOW, it will never be enough.

Now, that doesn't mean that all Christians should sell what they have, give it all to the poor (and become poor themselves) to follow Jesus. But they should instead be mindful about the 'riches' they have and of their attitudes toward those riches AND of their attitudes toward others who don't have what they have.

You are correct. The early Christians did sell all and had a communal lifestyle and the Apostles and Deacons distributed. Unfortunately, money runs out, because when more and more became Born Again, it became unmanageable.. It left many poor without anything, hence. when Apostle Paul was in Jerusalem with James and the others, he and Barnabas received the right hand of fellowship and said;

Galatians 2:10 - Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

 

[St. SteVen]

You are correct. The early Christians did sell all and had a communal lifestyle and the Apostles and Deacons distributed. Unfortunately, money runs out, because when more and more became Born Again, it became unmanageable.. It left many poor without anything, hence. when Apostle Paul was in Jerusalem with James and the others, he and Barnabas received the right hand of fellowship and said;

Galatians 2:10 - Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

This calls into question the whole idea of asceticism, monasticism, and vows of poverty.
Which were an outcropping of the "sell all that you have and follow me" directive. Given only to the RYR.
As you noted, the poor (those who had sold everything to follow Jesus) were left destitute.
Was this a result of following Jesus, or of NOT following Jesus?

As you wrote: "Unfortunately, money runs out..." Diminishing returns in the long run.
Jesus also said "... the worker is worth his keep." - Matthew 10:10 NIV

If Jesus tells you to sell everything and follow him,
does that not assume that he will take care of you?
Or was he asking them to destroy their own livelihoods?
God feeds the birds of the air, and clothes the flowers of the field.
The Apostle Paul worked as a tent maker to support himself.

 

[Rockerduck]

This calls into question the whole idea of asceticism, monasticism, and vows of poverty.
Which were an outcropping of the "sell all that you have and follow me" directive. Given only to the RYR.
As you noted, the poor (those who had sold everything to follow Jesus) were left destitute.
Was this a result of following Jesus, or of NOT following Jesus?

As you wrote: "Unfortunately, money runs out..." Diminishing returns in the long run.
Jesus also said "... the worker is worth his keep." - Matthew 10:10 NIV

If Jesus tells you to sell everything and follow him,
does that not assume that he will take care of you?
Or was he asking them to destroy their own livelihoods?
God feeds the birds of the air, and clothes the flowers of the field.
The Apostle Paul worked as a tent maker to support himself.

If Jesus were to tell me to sell everything and follow Him, I'd do it in a heartbeat. However, none of that directive was put to new believers. It was the apostles teaching. But it should have been in moderation. Jesus only told the RYR to sell all(aside from His Apostle's). Not Martha, Mary, or Lazarus, or even Nicodemus, who was probably wealthy too. Jesus, identified the RYR,'s fault or sin and said loose it and follow me. In the Church's the Apostle Paul started, they didn't sell all, but they gave. That's a big difference, the Apostle issued no directive to sell all and follow Jesus. I have complete Faith that Jesus will take care of me, He always has and I trust he will always. I can tell you, Jesus has chosen my Job, my wife, my houses, all by the Grace of God and His mercies.

 

[Lambano]

remember also. They were under occupation because of their sin.. they had yet to repent of what got them there to begin with.

I have seen it argued by the proponents of the "New Perspective on Paul" that the Pharisaic movement, which began under the Maccabees and the subsequent Hasmonean dynasty and continued on into the Roman period, was in fact a repentance movement to get God's favor and bring an end to the constant domination by foreign powers that had been ongoing since the Exile.

And bring in the "Kingdom of God".

 

[Lambano]

How should we view the Rich Young Ruler?

I suppose could embrace him as one us, convinced of our own right-standing with God - until Jesus shows us how far short we really fall.

 

[Robert Pate]

Did you sell all that you possessed in order to follow Jesus?
If not, then who are you to judge

The only condition for my salvation was that I believe Jesus had dealt with my sins, but first I had to admit that I was a sinner in need of salvation. Something that the rich young ruler could not do. His wealth had nothing to do with his lost condition. He would not admit that he was a sinner. Hell will be full of self-righteous people that are to proud to ask Jesus to save them.

 

[Episkopos]

The only condition for my salvation was that I believe Jesus had dealt with my sins, but first I had to admit that I was a sinner in need of salvation. Something that the rich young ruler could not do. His wealth had nothing to do with his lost condition. He would not admit that he was a sinner. Hell will be full of self-righteous people that are to proud to ask Jesus to save them.

Your scheme, although taught by many decoy churches...is amiss. Jesus dealt with the sins of the whole world. By claiming to believe you are included or have an exclusive claim (like some here) to that sacrifice doesn't give you any merit with God...it is a selfish motivation. What saves you is surrendering to God, His ways, His commandments. Giving God His proper due, His proper fear, His proper service.

That can take place on 2 levels. One whereby we do all within our power. And the higher walk where we do all in His power.

There is no pushing others aside so you can claim your salvation by also claiming God's own righteousness for yourself. That is the false gospel that Paul says should be seen as heretical.

We must be careful to not misuse grace as something common that we can trifle with. With grace comes a much harder judgment...

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Good point.
Do you see Jesus addressing that directly?

No,

He was addressing the fact that the person who claimed to have kept the law did not really keep the law.

 

[Episkopos]

No,

He was addressing the fact that the person who claimed to have kept the law did not really keep the law.

Judging by what standard?

Look at this verse concerning Zacharias and Elizabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Using your formidable religious intellect...explain how these didn't keep the law????...using the bible, of course, not that brain of yours.

Hey @Lizbeth. Watch how people avoid the truth...the simple truth ....how it is avoided by the ones who say I'm the one not using scripture properly...yeah, not enough twist to it. Can you answer my question? Without the usual dissimulation?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your scheme, although taught by many decoy churches...is amiss. Jesus dealt with the sins of the whole world. By claiming to believe you are included or have an exclusive claim (like some here) to that sacrifice doesn't give you any merit with God...it is a selfish motivation. What saves you is surrendering to God, His ways, His commandments. Giving God His proper due, His proper fear, His proper service.

That can take place on 2 levels. One whereby we do all within our power. And the higher walk where we do all in His power.

There is no pushing others aside so you can claim your salvation by also claiming God's own righteousness for yourself. That is the false gospel that Paul says should be seen as heretical.

We must be careful to not misuse grace as something common that we can trifle with. With grace comes a much harder judgment...

This is what the RYR thought he did. thats why he could not comprehend what jesus tried to tell him

Pushing others aside? No one can push anyone. You either recieve the grace of God. or you try to do it your own way. Which you are doing. Sadly you will fail.. And you will not make it yourself. Unless you repent.

Only those who RECEIVE him are saved.. Thats what John said in his firs chapter..

The only walk you can do to save yourself is to be sinless and perfect. Sadly, you would have had to do it from birth. Since only christ did this. He is the only one who can be righteous enough to enter the holy place.

The rest of us are forced to recieve his right standing by receiving his death.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Judging by what standard?

Look at this verse concerning Zacharias and Elizabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Using your formidable religious intellect...explain how these didn't keep the law????...using the bible, of course, not that brain of yours.

Hey @Lizbeth. Watch how people avoid the truth...the simple truth ....how it is avoided by the ones who say I'm the one not using scripture properly...yeah, not enough twist to it. Can you answer my question? Without the usual dissimulation?

By what standard

By the standard God gave

Cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey ever word of this law.

The person proved he did not keep the first commandment, so By Gods standard. He had sinned and fallen short.

 

[Episkopos]

By what standard

By the standard God gave

Cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey ever word of this law.

The person proved he did not keep the first commandment, so By Gods standard. He had sinned and fallen short.

So then, instead of addressing the bible..you are calling Luke a liar?

Just how much ignoring the bible do you think you can get away with without being a heretic?

So what do we do with Luke's account concerning Zacharias and Elizabeth? Do we trust in your mighty intellect or God's word? What would you counsel?

 

[St. SteVen]

No,

He was addressing the fact that the person who claimed to have kept the law did not really keep the law.

Do you agree that the RYR was not alone in that false claim?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So then, instead of addressing the bible..you are calling Luke a liar?

I quoted the bible..

if you really knew the bible you would know this.
Deuteronomy 27:26
‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”

Gal 3: 10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

Are you calling Paul and Moses a liar?

Just how much ignoring the bible do you think you can get away with without being a heretic?

just how much failure to acknowledge the bible do you think you can do before you repent?

So what do we do with Luke's account concerning Zacharias and Elizabeth? Do we trust in your mighty intellect or God's word? What would you counsel?

Were Zacharias and Elizabeth sinless? Did God lie when he made the proclamation that all have sinned and fall short?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do you agree that the RYR was not alone in that false claim?

All the jews who crucified christ pretty much did the same thing..

They did not see Christ as the suffering servant. they saw him as King messiah.. They failed to realise they needed their sin debt paid so they rejected him as Messiah

 

[Episkopos]

I quoted the bible..

if you really knew the bible you would know this.
Deuteronomy 27:26
‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”

Gal 3: 10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

Are you calling Paul and Moses a liar?


just how much failure to acknowledge the bible do you think you can do before you repent?

Were Zacharias and Elizabeth sinless? Did God lie when he made the proclamation that all have sinned and fall short?

You are obfuscating and calling Luke a liar. And you are as dishonest as they come. Why don't you paste more verses in order to deny the other half that you don't understand in order to then twist, obscure, ignore... It's like I'm interviewing someone who knows he's committing a crime. You have no business commenting on the bible as if you were a student of the bible. Maybe you could get some cred as an agnostic though.

All of your concerns are easily met if you can answer my question. Then your huge mind might be able to see through that narrow gate that leads to life.