How to recognize a real Teacher... Pt 2

[CharismaticLady]

You said...

""""We can try to turn away from sin, but we are only successful AFTER we have received the Holy Spirit. So true repentance is not turning away from sin all by yourself. Repentance is acknowledging you are a sinner and that you can't stop sinning on your own.

*******. NEXT ******. = after this acknowledgement that you are weak,...... it is then you cry out to Jesus to free you from your desire to sin. Jesus fills you with His own Spirit"...


Notice that you said...

1.."after we have received the Holy Spirit

So, that is you saying you have received the Holy Spirit...

then "NEXT".....

Notice the "next".

that is Part 11, after you have already received the HS, as you wrote.

so, NEXT....... you "cry out" to get #2 Infilling, "Jesus fills you with His own Spirit".

Yet, you were already in possession of the Spirit of Christ, before you then wrote NEXT, .....

So, do you want to now go back and rewrite it all, so that you can pretend you didnt say all that?

Go back now and write...."before we are born again, we are sinners, crying out for help"...so, Jesus fills us with his divine nature, and we are then freed from sinning"...

Umm. no.
= This wont work, because no SINNER is crying out to stop sinning.
Sinners love to sin.
They only cry out when they are convicted that they are sinners, and want to be SAVED.

a BELIEVER has a Totally different situation, then a "sinner" crying out to Jesus to get help to stop sinning as a sinner wont cry this out to Jesus...to stop sinning.

So, you are confused here, and you need to rework it, and re-present it, so that it sounds like what some Baptist would teach, as this way, it at least resembles being born again ONCE, and Jesus coming to live inside, as our DIVINE NATURE. = us as a New Creation in Christ.

I am talking about someone who is just trying to become a Christian for the first time so they won't go to hell, so they just start acting like a Christian, but they still desire to sin. They will fail, because they have not repented in order to become born again of the Spirit.

When they repent, THEN Jesus gives them the Holy Spirit and they will have no desire to sin, because they have been born again and baptized with His Spirit and will be partaking of the divine nature.

If you still cannot understand, then I can't help you.

 

[CharismaticLady]

What you mean is.. Marks is in agreement with Paul.
That is not you.

Actually, I'm in agreement with Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul, Peter, James, Jude, and John.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Being born again is being baptized into Christ in His death and resurrection. When we die in Him, "the soul that sins shall die", we've died, and all is just as God said. Without Christ, the soul that sins dies, and is dead. But in Christ, we can die, but still live!

So you left out that sins in "But in Christ, we can die, but still live!

So you don't mean "But in Christ, the soul that sins dies, but still live!

 

[marks]

There is justification by faith; and then there is being born again of the Holy Spirit,

I don't see that.

Justification happens in being born again. How are you justified away from sin without rebirth?

 

[marks]

So you left out that sins in "But in Christ, we can die, but still live!

So you don't mean "But in Christ, the soul that sins dies, but still live!

Not sure I understand what you are saying.

You sin, you die. In Christ, we've died. So that's part's over.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The way I see it, the second benefit, often is the rebirth.

I think what some call a "second benefit" is in reality coming to believe what God did in our rebirth/justification. It can feel like getting born again all over again, to find that you are free from sin. But not because this was withheld until some future time. We are free from sin from the beginning.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Not sure I understand what you are saying.

You sin, you die. In Christ, we've died. So that's part's over.

Much love!

I'm talking about sin. Read it again; don't be like Behold who can't understand plain English.

 

[Joseph77]

You sin, you die. In Christ, we've died. So that's part's over.

Somewhere in Corinthians, in the Ekklesia (born again set apart ones) assembly,
didn't they many sin, and directly as written, as a result many did get sick and die,
as written... ?

 

[CharismaticLady]

I think what some call a "second benefit" is in reality coming to believe what God did in our rebirth/justification. It can feel like getting born again all over again, to find that you are free from sin. But not because this was withheld until some future time. We are free from sin from the beginning.

Much love!

He's wrong. And you may be too. The first benefit is the rebirth (freedom from sin) which is from the baptism of the Holy Spirit, that also gives us individual authorities from Mark 16:16-18. The second benefit are gifts for ministry for the profit of all from 1 Corinthians 12 (sin was already taken care of in the first). Sin is the primary reason Jesus died for us.

 

[CharismaticLady]

But not because this was withheld until some future time.

What is "this"?

 

[justbyfaith]

I don't see that.

Justification happens in being born again. How are you justified away from sin without rebirth?

I suppose that 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 happens when you are born again. However, is not that epistle written to those who are already saved? So, how is the second benefit promised as something that will happen in the future, to those who are already Christians?

 

[Joseph77]

"this" in English is called a proposition, or something else. (subject? fallen participle ? )

 

[Joseph77]

I don't see that.

Justification happens in being born again. How are you justified away from sin without rebirth?

Remember Romans 2 -
whoever does what is right according to Torah is justified, God Says...

 

[justbyfaith]

Remember Romans 2 -
whoever does what is right according to Torah is justified, God Says...

You must follow the progress in logic going from Romans 2:13 to Romans 3:28...otherwise these verses contradict each other.

Galatians 2:16 is also of importance.

 

[Behold]

I am talking about someone who is just trying to become a Christian for the first time so they won't go to hell, so they just start acting like a Christian, but they still desire to sin. They will fail, because they have not repented in order to become born again of the Spirit.When they repent, THEN Jesus gives them the Holy Spirit and they will have no desire to sin, because they have been born again and baptized with His Spirit and will be partaking of the divine nature.

Yes.
I felt that you could be clear.

However, saying that a christian has no desire to sin, is a pipe dream.
every person, including a christian, wants to sin.
its a spiritual situation, that is not resolved just be being born again.
The solution is FOUND in the Grace of God, but you have to apply the solution.
You have to control your "sin consciousness" that puts you under the dominion of the Law..

This is why Paul first explained...

1. "that which i dont want to do , I DO, and that which i would do, i DONT DO". = Paul the born again, but not Paul the "mind of Christ". as He was still walking in the flesh.

2. "Christ who always gives me the VICTORY"..

So, Reader,
do you see the same Paul, yet one was not yet walking in the Spirit, and one is the refined understanding, which is Paul having the Mind of Christ, renewed, and that Paul tells you this.....>"if you WALK in the SPIRIT, you will not SIN".

So, that is what im teaching you how to do. Im simply showing you how to come into the same understanding, the same "right Believing" that is the renewed MIND of Christ, that Paul teaches as "walking in the Spirit".
See my THREADS.

 

[Behold]

Actually, I'm in agreement with Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul, Peter, James, Jude, and John.

The next time i see you try to teach something, we'll find out if what you just said is true.

 

[marks]

So you left out that sins in "But in Christ, we can die, but still live!

So you don't mean "But in Christ, the soul that sins dies, but still live!

I'm still not sure what you are getting at with this question. But nonetheless . . .

What I'm saying is this.

The soul that sins shall die. We've sinned. So we have to die. And so is the way of all mankind, dying because they've sinned. The only thing is, death ends man's time before judgment, and to be dead because of sin and that's it, you're toast. You're dead and without hope, to be condemned to the second death in due time.

The soul that sins shall die, but there is something else too. You must be born again. In Adam, we are the wrong kind.

So then In Christ, God has provided a way for us to die as all sinning souls must but without being destroyed, instead, being redeemed, and reborn. Instead of being destroyed by the penalty of our sin, we are saved through that destruction, just like Noah in the ark, except, unlike Noah, we ourselves are transformed, into the right kind. God's promise to Noah to not destroy the earth that way again is made reality in us, as we are born God's Own beloved children, our relationship now corrected to the original design, innocence, with no stain of sin. This is our new creation. Innocent. No stain of sin.

Having died once, death no longer has any power over us. We no longer have fear of death. We've already died, and while we will still need to endure the demise of this body, that will simply be our final affliction in this world, to be followed by meeting Jesus in Person. I know my Redeemer lives, and these eyes will see Him, and these hands will touch Him!

EVEN IF . . . God forbid! Even if there is sin in my life which continues my entire life, yet still having died in Christ, we live in Him, and death has no more power over us. The soul that sins shall die, but once only. Death is satisfied, so that we have even died to the law. No more connection to the Law, none, so there is no condemnation. Where there is no law there is no transgression. Who is there to condemn me? The One Who justifies me?

The only law I'm governed by is what Jesus wants for me to be and do. And He alone is fit to discern of what sort of work my life is. And He's the One Who gave His life through a life of sorrow and affliction and brutality proving His love for me, and dying for me to provide this restoration.

Having already been reconciled by His death, how much More shall we be saved by His life!

So, having died in Him, we die no more. Even dying, we live!

Much love!

 

[marks]

I'm talking about sin. Read it again; don't be like Behold who can't understand plain English.

You're thinking that Behold can't understand plain English?

And that I'm making some choice to emulate that?

Could my statement have been sincere? Just somethings to consider . . .

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

This is our new creation. Innocent. No stain of sin.

1 John 1:8 would contradict your pov.

For I consider that we are a whole person; and that sin resides in the flesh.

It is possible for sin to be crucified so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour. But that sin dwells in the believer is a definite truth of holy scripture.

The only law I'm governed by is what Jesus wants for me to be and do.

See Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4.

The written law of God is a factor in how I perceive what Jesus wants me to do.

Of course, as believers in Christ, we are not bound to the letter but are obedient to the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6).

 

[CharismaticLady]

However, saying that a christian has no desire to sin, is a pipe dream.
every person, including a christian, wants to sin.

I've read your complete post and have always known your error, but I will take these one at a time.

Your statement is false. When Paul said a Christian is dead to sin, and that we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, what do you think he meant? Open your mind to what I am saying.

The solution is FOUND in the Grace of God, but you have to apply the solution.
You have to control your "sin consciousness" that puts you under the dominion of the Law..

You believe it is not by works, and yet you are crediting us with "applying the solution." We don't have anything to do with it.

The true Grace of God is divine power. It is not given to us because we strive for it. It is when we realize we are weak that we are given Christ's Spirit. 2 Peter 1:2-4. All our righteousness from then on is because of Christ's Spirit inside us working through us. Being born again is being given a new nature that abhors sin. The seed of the Father given to us is through the baptism of the Holy Spirit 1 John 3:9; and I'm talking about power over sin, not gifts, so don't put me in the Pentecostal box that the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. The first and foremost result is being dead to sin. Romans 6:2; 1 John 5:18, 1 John 3:5-9 (I'm not just a teacher to the unsaved in the Church, but also to Pentecostal pastors. I've taught 7 so far, see something they've never seen before. I also have been asked to counsel pastors that have gotten into sexual impurity and kicked out of the Church to become free. So, I am far from ignorant as you accuse. But, you would do well to listen to me.

This is why Paul first explained...

1. "that which i dont want to do , I DO, and that which i would do, i DONT DO". = Paul the born again, but not Paul the "mind of Christ". as He was still walking in the flesh.

Now this is where you ARE ignorant. Romans 7 is NOT how Paul, or any Christian is struggling. Romans 1 through 8 is about the LAW of Moses and SIN. Chapter 7 is the last one on how the Law of Moses had to be kept - with the sinful old nature intact; how Paul as a Pharisee had to keep the Law of Moses. Romans 7:13. Romans 8:1-9 shows that a born again Christian is no longer under the weak Law of Moses kept by the sinful nature, because "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has FREED ME (Paul) from the law of SIN AND DEATH." So you see Paul is right that we are no longer under the law (LAW OF MOSES). We are dead to sin, not still struggling as you suppose.

2. "Christ who always gives me the VICTORY"..

Yes, I live in VICTORY. No longer a sinner, but a child of God.

So, Reader,
do you see the same Paul, yet one was not yet walking in the Spirit, and one is the refined understanding, which is Paul having the Mind of Christ, renewed, and that Paul tells you this.....>"if you WALK in the SPIRIT, you will not SIN".

No, it is the latter that is every true Christian. No one who is still a slave to sin and struggling has been born again. Paul no longer sinned, yet taught those under the law that the Law of Moses was not enough to be truly righteous. Only through Jesus is there no condemnation when they walk by the Spirit and not by the flesh.

So, that is what im teaching you how to do. Im simply showing you how to come into the same understanding, the same "right Believing" that is the renewed MIND of Christ, that Paul teaches as "walking in the Spirit".
See my THREADS.