How to recognize a real Teacher... Pt 2

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Behold

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Yelling again.

What I said is what I mean. Just knowing about Jesus is not enough. Even the demons believe in Him. Again, you didn't understand a thing I said, let alone what I meant.


You said...

""""We can try to turn away from sin, but we are only successful AFTER we have received the Holy Spirit. So true repentance is not turning away from sin all by yourself. Repentance is acknowledging you are a sinner and that you can't stop sinning on your own.

*******. NEXT ******. = after this acknowledgement that you are weak,...... it is then you cry out to Jesus to free you from your desire to sin. Jesus fills you with His own Spirit"...


Notice that you said...

1.."after we have received the Holy Spirit

So, that is you saying you have received the Holy Spirit...

then "NEXT".....

Notice the "next".

that is Part 11, after you have already received the HS, as you wrote.

so, NEXT....... you "cry out" to get #2 Infilling, "Jesus fills you with His own Spirit".

Yet, you were already in possession of the Spirit of Christ, before you then wrote NEXT, .....

So, do you want to now go back and rewrite it all, so that you can pretend you didnt say all that?

Go back now and write...."before we are born again, we are sinners, crying out for help"...so, Jesus fills us with his divine nature, and we are then freed from sinning"...

Umm. no.
= This wont work, because no SINNER is crying out to stop sinning.
Sinners love to sin.
They only cry out when they are convicted that they are sinners, and want to be SAVED.

a BELIEVER has a Totally different situation, then a "sinner" crying out to Jesus to get help to stop sinning as a sinner wont cry this out to Jesus...to stop sinning.

So, you are confused here, and you need to rework it, and re-present it, so that it sounds like what some Baptist would teach, as this way, it at least resembles being born again ONCE, and Jesus coming to live inside, as our DIVINE NATURE. = us as a New Creation in Christ.
 

justbyfaith

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God does not give you part of His righteousness so that you can be a saved sinner,.... then later...as you falsely teach.... if you "cry out" .... He gives you part 2 of Himself (Divine nature) so that you can finally stop sinning.

As a matter of fact, God imputes righteousness to the one who believes in His promises and wavers not in unbelief but believes that, what God has promised, He is able also to perform (Romans 4:20-22). Such promises as 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:14, and 1 John 3:9. When He fulfills those promises, it is very often a second benefit (2 Corinthians 1:15).

Again, a person receives everlasting life at the moment of first faith (John 5:24 (kjv), John 6:47). But a person can begin to walk in real holiness as the result of receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost; which is a second benefit (2 Corinthians 1:15).

To walk in the Spirit is not a self effort, or a deed you do, or something you obey.

It is not self-effort but it is obedience. To say that it isn't is rather preposterous.

Im not the one "sinning".

No...you are committing "the works of the flesh"...

You don't realize that in this, you are sinning.

That sin is not imputed where there is no law; but that this does not make it any less sin.

Let me tell you what a "divine nature" 2nd infilling is, after you already have GOD in you...
=Its a demonic infilling.

Wow! That is borderline blasphemy of the Holy Spirit if you didn't actually cross the line.

Its like this, you have never been taught that you can stop sinning,

Actually, I have taught them that they can stop sinning in my own way.

If instead you want to stay in the ditch of confused theology so that you can spend the rest of your life sinning and confessing, while worrying that you can lose your salvation.... then go and read ..

1. Justbyfaith

I don't teach that the genuine believer can lose their salvation. As Luke 8:13 applies to the person who has a lukewarm, nominal, or shallow faith.

And, I also do not deny specific passages of scripture as you do, such as 1 John 1:7-9.

So, I think that the smart people among us will follow me (and others) rather than you; because the sure sign of a false teacher is when someone denies in concept whole passages of the Bible; and this is what you do.

Its that worn out, horse beaten to death.....>"you dont have what i have, you dont have that 2nd infilling"., or in your case, you refer to it as "divine nature" infilling = the SECOND one.

A second benefit is indeed possible (2 Corinthians 1:15; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:14, 1 John 3:9).

You are teaching that the "divine nature" is a second infilling, that we are to beg God to give us, because we are born again and can't stop sinning.

= Heresy.

Not heresy.

See Deuteronomy 4:29, Jeremiah 29:13.
 

Behold

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As a matter of fact, God imputes righteousness to the one who believes in His promises and wavers not in unbelief.


This is a denial of the Gift of Salvation.
You've just twisted the Gift of Salvation, into your Cross Rejecting Legalism by denying that Salvation is a Gift.
You denied the Gift of God AGAIN, by saying that its based on not "wavering".....which is a self effort.

God's salvation is not...."all that believe and do not waver, shall be saved".
God's salvation is given as a GIFT, to all that believe, and there is no other CONDITION.
So, you are teaching legalism in place of Grace, again.
You are Galatians 1:8.
 

marks

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Marks, would you care to explain your views on this subject then?
Being born again is being baptized into Christ in His death and resurrection. When we die in Him, "the soul that sins shall die", we've died, and all is just as God said. Without Christ, the soul that sins dies, and is dead. But in Christ, we can die, but still live!

Our required death has been exacted, and so there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

When Adam ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, all of life changed and became about trying to do good, and not do evil. And that good or evil would be recompensed in kind by God. And all human activity became formed around this way of life.

In Christ, we are removed from the line of Adam, having died, and are now born from God, a new humanity, which is not subject to the laws and principles of the old humanity.

We are not under law, except the law of love in Christ.

When Adam ate, his flesh became corrupted by this knowledge, and instead of simply being innocent before God, now, he judged himself, in the first case, I'm naked! And he hid.

All men hide from God, afraid to come to the light and be seen, as He searches for us with brooms, and lanterns. His creation, whom He created to share His love with, now afraid to come to Him.

We hear the Gospel and believe, and are born again, born from God, a new and holy creature. But the mind needs to be renewed to think the new way.

The Law empowers and incites sin, and living according to law, living as if we make ourselves more or less acceptible to God based on better or worse behavior, this is to live as if we have to control ourselves so that we can be right with God. And we cannot control ourselves.

But the reality is that we are neither more acceptible by doing good, nor less acceptible by doing evil, all is determined not by us, but by Christ.

When we realize that we are not condemned at any time for any thing, as all has been made new, and "it is no longer I that sin, but sin that lives in me", when we realize that we are in fact Fully reconciled to our Creator, Who loves us, then there is no hindrance to trusting in Him No Matter What is happening in my life.

Being free to just be in love with God, and receive His wonderful love for me, this is faith to stand in grace, to live our life in Christ. In Christ is no sin, and this abiding in Christ gives us righteousness in our lives. If we do sin, we don't need to dwell on it. God isn't. Why should we? God's not concerned. He has the answer in His discipling of us. He will sanctify me. It's His work to do, that's what the Bible says.

If I do sin, Jesus cleanses me, advocates for me. Sin is no longer my problem. Not that I never commit sin. I mean, I don't, that is, the new creation doesn't. But if I falter in my faith, forgetting to live in God's love, the old creation may do his thing, and that's never good.

But with all that being said, having a mind focused on God, His presence here with me, His unfailing and unending love for me, that there is no hindrance of any kind, other than my disbelief, having this mind, knowing His peace, and joy, this is being empowered by the Holy Spirit in the new man, and this is not where sin comes from.

This is the freedom in Christ, where the abundant life simply grows in us, in love and joy and peace and patience and the rest.

Much love!
 

marks

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Marks, would you care to explain your views on this subject then?
Here is something I wrote the other day, maybe less murky . . .

Having been born from Adam, we are born into a life where we are all about trying to earn God's acceptance by obedience, and we can not be obedient in flesh, therefore, we are never accepted.

Having been born from God in Christ, we are now fully acceptable to God, and in fact are now fully righteous and holy, and not governed by any law other than that Jesus wants certain things from each of us personally.

Having grown up in a world where we are all about tit for tat, reward for performance, hardship for non-performance, punishment for disobedience, earning love, our brains are forms around those concepts.

Trying to have a relationship with God, though, based on that, doesn't work.

God has set aside everything wrong about us. He's made us brand new.

So now, the abundant life is realized by realizing that we are completely new people, who never sinned, never will, and are never condemned.

Sin lives in the old man, we are the new man. If we live the life of the new man, the old man has no opportunity to sin.

Not being guilty of our sin (we are new creatures, righteous and holy) there is no hindrance towards our being with God in intimacy at any time.

It seems many people think - I did - that realizing we can never be guilty of sin again causes us to go headlong into sin, but I've found that this is what releases us from the power of sin.

Law empowers sin, and if we live as if under law, then sin has much more presence in our lives. But in living free from law, we are free to live the new man.

Life according to the knowledge of good and evil, or life according to the life of Jesus.

So then by trusting in the completed work of Jesus, done on the cross, I am free from all guilt and condemnation, and this releases me to cast myself upon God, and to know that His love will be working in my today.

Much love!
 

Jane_Doe22

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Being born again
For starters, Marks I want to thank you for addressing my question, even though I saw your post and did chuckle to myself for about how I should specified a pithy response.

Being born again is being baptized into Christ in His death and resurrection. When we die in Him, "the soul that sins shall die", we've died, and all is just as God said. Without Christ, the soul that sins dies, and is dead. But in Christ, we can die, but still live!

Our required death has been exacted, and so there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

When Adam ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, all of life changed and became about trying to do good, and not do evil. And that good or evil would be recompensed in kind by God. And all human activity became formed around this way of life.

In Christ, we are removed from the line of Adam, having died, and are now born from God, a new humanity, which is not subject to the laws and principles of the old humanity.
Ok.
We are not under law, except the law of love in Christ.
Here is where I'm seeing a lot of confusion coming from word choice and a person's specific definitions of those words.
The Law empowers and incites sin, and living according to law, living as if we make ourselves more or less acceptible to God based on better or worse behavior, this is to live as if we have to control ourselves so that we can be right with God. And we cannot control ourselves.

But the reality is that we are neither more acceptible by doing good, nor less acceptible by doing evil, all is determined not by us, but by Christ.

When we realize that we are not condemned at any time for any thing, as all has been made new, and "it is no longer I that sin, but sin that lives in me", when we realize that we are in fact Fully reconciled to our Creator, Who loves us, then there is no hindrance to trusting in Him No Matter What is happening in my life.

Being free to just be in love with God, and receive His wonderful love for me, this is faith to stand in grace, to live our life in Christ. In Christ is no sin, and this abiding in Christ gives us righteousness in our lives. If we do sin, we don't need to dwell on it. God isn't. Why should we? God's not concerned. He has the answer in His discipling of us. He will sanctify me. It's His work to do, that's what the Bible says.
Yeah, I'm seeing complete different interpretations on this based on a person's specific definitions of certain words.
If I do sin, Jesus cleanses me, advocates for me. Sin is no longer my problem. Not that I never commit sin. I mean, I don't, that is, the new creation doesn't. But if I falter in my faith, forgetting to live in God's love, the old creation may do his thing, and that's never good.

But with all that being said, having a mind focused on God, His presence here with me, His unfailing and unending love for me, that there is no hindrance of any kind, other than my disbelief, having this mind, knowing His peace, and joy, this is being empowered by the Holy Spirit in the new man, and this is not where sin comes from.

This is the freedom in Christ, where the abundant life simply grows in us, in love and joy and peace and patience and the rest.
I want to write more on this, but it'll have to wait a few hours before I have the time to do it justice.
 

justbyfaith

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This is a denial of the Gift of Salvation.

So, you're saying that the apostle Paul denied the gift of salvation, here:

Rom 4:20, He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21, And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22, And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

I believe that you have also diverted the reader away from the actual issue; which is, that righteousness is imputed to the one who believes; but that a second benefit can be obtained once a man receives the promise that he is believing God for.
 

2 Chr. 34:19

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This is a denial of the Gift of Salvation.
You've just twisted the Gift of Salvation, into your Cross Rejecting Legalism by denying that Salvation is a Gift.
You denied the Gift of God AGAIN, by saying that its based on not "wavering".....which is a self effort.

God's salvation is not...."all that believe and do not waver, shall be saved".
God's salvation is given as a GIFT, to all that believe, and there is no other CONDITION.
So, you are teaching legalism in place of Grace, again.
You are Galatians 1:8.
You do seem to rub posters up the wrong way @Behold :) I’m sorry your under attack (but pretty certain you can handle yourself)...Many times I’ve heard the term ‘legalistic’ and it has usually come from the worldy ‘greasy gracers’ who haven’t moved on in years...Sorry, but that’s just my experience. If Believers are legalistic, or religious-it’s certainly better than what they were before Jesus found them...Wouldn’t you agree?
 

justbyfaith

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Therefore it is no longer I that sin, but sin that lives in me. This was Paul's answer.

Justification = new life apart from sin.
So, sin in me is sinning.

It should be understood that there is sin being committed, at the very least.
 

2 Chr. 34:19

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So, sin in me is sinning.

It should be understood that there is sin being committed, at the very least.
I don’t think Romans 7 was paul’s Bio ;)
He was an ex-Pharisee, and more than likely had more self control than we could dream of.
 

2 Chr. 34:19

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You do seem to rub posters up the wrong way @Behold :) I’m sorry your under attack (but pretty certain you can handle yourself)...Many times I’ve heard the term ‘legalistic’ and it has usually come from the worldy ‘greasy gracers’ who haven’t moved on in years...Sorry, but that’s just my experience. If Believers are legalistic, or religious-it’s certainly better than what they were before Jesus found them...Wouldn’t you agree?
I remember hearing Ulf Eckman say ‘when you choose to get serious with The Lord, people will say you’re religious or legalistic...you know what, I’m going to get MORE religious!’ (Unfortunately, he became too religious, but his intentions were good)
 
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justbyfaith

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So now, the abundant life is realized by realizing that we are completely new people, who never sinned,

1Jo 1:10, If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

To be more accurate, justification means, "just-as-if-I'd-never-sinned".
 

marks

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So, you're saying that the apostle Paul denied the gift of salvation, here:

Rom 4:20, He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21, And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22, And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

I believe that you have also diverted the reader away from the actual issue; which is, that righteousness is imputed to the one who believes; but that a second benefit can be obtained once a man receives the promise that he is believing God for.
This idea of a "second benefit" denies the power of our rebirth.
 

justbyfaith

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The way I see it, the second benefit, often is the rebirth.

That a person is justified by faith is indisputable in the holy scriptures. So, if someone has faith in Jesus, they are saved, irregardless of their walk or performance.

But, often after the initial step of faith, a person can indeed be seeking the Lord for a holy walk; because if they are truly born again, they will be discontented with a Romans 7:14-25 lifestyle (Romans 7:24).

Deuteronomy 4:29 and Jeremiah 29:13 show the way, to receiving the second benefit that = a holy walk in Christ.

I do believe that 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:14, and 1 John 3:9 speak of this second benefit. Often people who are truly justified by faith do not yet have it.

There is justification by faith; and then there is being born again of the Holy Spirit, so that the one who is born of God "doth not commit sin" and "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9). To me, this is often a second benefit that is over and above salvation through faith alone; which belongs to us if we have faith regardless of our walk or performance.

It comes as the result of being discontented with a lifestyle of sinning (Romans 7:24).

We can no longer abide in our conscience as hypocrites who claim to have faith in Jesus but do not live the life that is told about in the holy scriptures. We begin to seek the Lord for deliverance from the sin that so easily besets us; and when we seek Him with all of our hearts, we find the victory.