CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Look at #105 that shows both of our posts. Let me ask a different way. Does a Christian still sin, but still lives? THAT is what you left out.
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Look at #105 that shows both of our posts. Let me ask a different way. Does a Christian still sin, but still lives? THAT is what you left out.
Im not going to read what you wrote.'
Ive defined your theology, already.
But i'll answer your question.
Paul said that we are in the spirit if we are born again.
That is a certain context......as the "spirit" in this case, is referring to being born again INTO IT, which is to be born again into the Spirit of God.
THat is our "sonship" position, as a joint heir with Christ and an Heir of God, as we are become SPIRITUALLY "ONE" with God and Christ, = in union spiritually with them, as proven by being born again.
But there is "walking in the Spirit" and there is "walking in the flesh".
Pay attention.
In both cases, the person is BORN AGAIN, and has the "divine nature".
But in one case they are not BELIEVING RIGHT, so they are in the "flesh". = CARNAL MIND
My Threads teach how to BELIEVE RIGHT< so that you can stop sinning, confessing and repenting, and in fact lose the desire to commit carnal deeds.
That is what Paul defines as "Christ always gives me the Victory".
I teach THAT.
Read my THreads.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Not until you read my post. You are WRONG about Romans 7, and that is your main problem.
The liberation that comes when you discover your freedom from sin in all respects, the commision of sin, the guilt of sin, the stain of sin, coming to realize this unleashes our faith in God.
We so limit ourselves, I think, by our thinking that we have disqualified ourselves from God's blessings because we see the ongoing presence of sin in our lives. Isaiah, Jeremiah, both put it the same way . . . Our sins testify against us . . . and that's what happens. We've trusted in Jesus, we've been born again, we see the change, but we also see our sins, and they declare us guilty.
And when we are fooled into thinking this way, we feel our sense of guilt, instead of relying on God's promise. So while we're all busy feeling guity - actually it's the 'old man' who is feeling guilty, the new man has given place at this point - while we're busy feeling guilty, we're not participating in Christ life, not walking in His works, not drinking in, not gushing out.
So then, when we come to realize that no amount of human effort can do for us what is needed to stop sinning, and when we come to realize that all that need be done HAS been done to fully and forever reconcile us to God, the feeling of this weight lifted from us can feel like being reborn all over again.
And we can find our lives transformed by the abounding faith that surges within us now that we are no longer convincing ourselves that we can't fully enjoy every aspect of being a child of God, and of being in His Son.
Coming to realize that we are not governed by law takes the power out of temptations to sin, so the testings are provings, proving that our faith is genuine. We know that even if we do sin, we can just move on without looking back, since Jesus has cleansed us of this sin too!
The realization Christ alone is our righteousness is the turning to Christ that is the freedom from committing that sin. In this is our justification.
Much love!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
This is where you and Behold agree, and I know that this is false. Anyone who has experienced the awesome baptism in the Spirit and becomes a new creature KNOWS IT IMMEDIATELY, because they are suddenly free from the DESIRE to sin from the old nature. Those who still "see the ongoing presence of sin in our lives" have NEVER had this experience. They are not born again, let alone filled with the Spirit.
This is the main part of my ministry - to get pseudo-Christians saved.
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Ok, I see why you say JBF is wrong also. I've seen various ideas expressed as a "second benefit", but then, since this isn't something that's taught as such in the Bible, there will be many different ideas.
Perhaps the most common is the idea that the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" is something that comes later, and empowers us to actually live like Christians.
About the gifts, is there always a 'waiting period'? Do you receive gifts only once during your life? I've long understood the gifts of the Spirit to be given by God whenever He chooses, whether immediately upon rebirth, or decades later, based on God's individual plan for each of us.
As I think about the idea of "second benefit", the way I normally hear it, like, an extra empowerment towards right living or special service, I can think of several times I've had what at the time seemed like that kind of advancement, but then, in retrospect, I've come to see how these just been the more visible parts of my growth, but that underneath were times just as important, just not as "stand out".
As far as Jesus' primary reason for dying for us, I'd say it would be to provide the death in which we could die and live, so that we could be alive with Him. Both taking care of sin, and taking care of us.
Much love!
And, in this, you both misrepresent yourself to those who don't know you better, as you still allow for the presence of "certain sins", and you affirm the falseness of my rebirth. By your POV, I've never met God, not been redeemed or reborn. Not filled with the Spirit.
Yes; in the sense that I am indwelt by the element of sin.
No; in the sense that as one who is born of God, I "do not commit sin" and "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9).
I am a sinner who has been set free from the power of sin; in effect, a sinner who doesn't sin.
It has been said that we sin because we are sinners and not that we are sinners because we sin.
Therefore, I am a sinner even though I don't sin for the most part; because if I am not "a sinner because I sin", then I can be a sinner even though I don't sin.
I am a sinner in that I have indwelling sin; but this indwelling sin can be rendered dead so that it has no authority over my behaviour. And if it has no longer dominion over me (Romans 6:14), the only sense in which I am a sinner is in that I am still indwelt by it (1 John 1:8, 1 Timothy 1:15).
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2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is what I have been saying all along ‘be holy, because I AM holy’ ‘ take every thought captive to obey Christ’ ‘choose life...’ ‘ be perfect...’ and He does the rest
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I do see it taught in the Bible. However, it is not as clear because the disciples walked and learned from Jesus, but didn't have the Spirit to not sin, i.e., Peter's denial. But after the resurrection, Jesus blew His Spirit into the 11 disciples, John 20. That was their "first." Yet, Jesus told them to wait in Jerusalem to receive POWER. That power is the ministry gifts, the "second." But to minister you must be a clear representative of Jesus and have already received the "first" the rebirth, the freedom from sin. That is how Peter preached to those 3000 devout Jews that this was what Joel said in Joel 2. That was one of the uses of "Prophecy" - supernatural understanding and interpretation of that Old Testament prophecy.
So at that time, here is how I see the two fillings.
The apostles - first filling - John 20
The apostles - second filling - Acts 2.
The 120 disciples - first filling - Acts 2 - Mark 16:16-18 - individual gifts for private use.
The 120 disciples - second filling - Acts 3:29-31 - 1 Corinthians 12 - corporate ministry gifts for the profit of all.
I don't see it that way. In fact, that's impossible. We MUST be born again and baptized with His power. Romans 8:9b "Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His."
Not if you already believe they are real and for today. Many Cessationists (like yourself) can receive the power for freedom from sin, but do not have faith to receive the supernatural individual or ministry gifts. Though I went to church for 30 years believing in Jesus, but never having repented, I wasn't born again. But when I did repent, I got both fillings at once. Like both barrels. I was free from sin immediately, AND could see visions, hear is voice clearly - word of wisdom, word of knowledge, and prophecy - the personal revelations and the supernatural understanding of the Word of God. And learned immediately from His Spirit to receive 100% answers to prayer, where before, I never had an answer to prayer in all those 30 years. But I already believed in the gifts for about 6 years before actually receiving them when I was born again. Before that I was a Cessationist.
We receive the all-powerful Holy Spirit of Christ once. But He doesn't give us all the power He possesses. So what you are experiencing are releases of His Spirit for growth. And that can happen many times - just like the 2nd filling is the start of the more powerful gifts. For you it may be the 10th if you ever develop the faith to believe in them. But in the meantime, you are growing.
Yes, Romans 6 and 1 John 3:5 show that.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
But because of the power of the Holy Spirit in us killing our desire to sin, Jesus' yoke is easy, and His burden is light.
Without this power, we would be struggling as those without Christ, but only the Law of Moses in Romans 7.
What I'm saying is that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not something that comes at a different time than rebirth.
Much love!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
To me, they are the same thing. To a Pentecostal, that is what they would say just because of semantics. They believe you receive the Holy Spirit at the rebirth, but the 2nd filling is the "baptism." I don't.
Scripturally, Acts of the Apostles 1:5 calls the first, the "baptism," so, so do I; and all other releases are called fillings, as in Acts of the Apostles 4:29-31 for signs and wonders (ministry)
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Really? Do you speak in tongues? I thought you didn't believe that the tongues spoken today by Pentecostals was scriptural?
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