I am a Liberal

[Tex]

Yes, I am a liberal. And I don't even mean it in the "Adam Smith was a liberal" or "Jesus was a liberal" sense (both of which are true, btw), I mean that modern left-wing policies are more appealing to me than right wing policies. I would love government run corporations (insurance, automobiles, rail lines, post office, electricity, etc.), I like tax brackets, I like redistribution of wealth, equality of outcome and opportunity, I like governments with power, I like alternative energy, I like regulations on all sorts of stuff. I am a liberal.

And there is nothing wrong with it.

Regardless of your political preference, you must agree that there is nothing "evil" with ascribing to big government. Nothing "evil" about taxes, nothing "immoral" about progressive social reform. However, there are certain positions that are evil within what is called "liberal". Abortion is the murder of a human being, and many liberals are for it's legalization, continuation, or expansion. Euthanasia is equally the murder of a human being. Stem cells are occasionally extracted from human beings, killing them in the process. Pushing extreme separation of church and state is somewhat wrong (and many liberals support these extremes), but used naturally is a logical and beneficial to all of society.

With exception of these 3.5 positions, what is so satanic about modern liberalism?

 

[lforrest]

Equality of outcome, with inequality of input creates a self-destructive economic system. Equality without fairness is a lie, and not equality at all, It removes the incentive to produce or aspire to greater things.

The satanic part of Liberalism is this lie perpetuated by the covetous have-nots with their unjust scales.

 

[RANDOR]

With exception of these 3.5 positions, what is so satanic about modern liberalism?

Ya know.............maybe years ago there would be no problem being a liberal and Christian........but today @ 6:45pm on a Friday 2014....NO WAY!
You must not know your party very well................
You say you love Jesus...............but in 2012 your party kicked God out of their democratic platform.
So, your telling me you are for a party that is totaly against everything your God stands for?

Or let me put it this way.....I think you know more about your Savior
Than you do about bein a Liberal.
But hey....if you have been watchin your party for the
past month.....and things are happening fast......you would
not be proud of calling yourself a liberal......for the ones you
run with..........are panicking, and is at awe as to what is happening
to their party.....but of course the Godless ones are as happy
as satan wants them to be.


God Bless †

Actually myself................I'm against them all....................for they seem to be against us.

 

[Tex]

Equality of outcome, with inequality of input creates a self-destructive economic system.

Although I disagree with you, there is nothing immoral about economic ignorance. There is nothing immoral about poor political decisions either.

Equality without fairness is a lie, and not equality at all,

Yes. I don't believe bracketed taxes are unfair. At all. In fact, I think a flat tax would be unfair and, therefore, not equal.

It removes the incentive to produce or aspire to greater things.

There is nothing immoral in taking away incentives.

The satanic part of Liberalism is this lie perpetuated by the covetous have-nots with their unjust scales.

"Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s"

Covetousness is a sin of certain liberals. It is also a sin of certain conservatives. Enforcing charity is not covetousness.

You must not know your party very well.............

......but in 2012 your party kicked God out of their democratic platform.
So, your telling me you are for a party that is totaly against everything your God stands for?

Emphasis added

Who ever said I was a democrat? I already said in a thread you posted in I don't wholeheartedly support democracy, and the democrats don't even want voter IDs.

 

[Dan57]

Liberal philosophy nullifies the following;

“The worker deserves his wages” (1 Timothy 5:18 )

"the worker deserves his wages" (Luke 10:7)

"the worker is worth his keep" (Matthew 10:10)

"If any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel" (1 Timothy 5:8)

So when you say; "There is nothing immoral in taking away incentives", your denying a basic biblical moral principle.

When you say; "I like redistribution of wealth", you de-incentivise a worker. What your really in favor of is favoritism, taking from what hard workers earn and giving to those who refuse to work. Also, a flat tax is completely fair because EVERYONE pays the same rate, you can't get any more fairer than that.

When you say; "I like governments with power", I'm guessing your not just liberal, but an extreme leaning leftest (communist). Pontius Pilate had power, the power to kill and torture an innocent man.

"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s". What exactly is Ceasar's? What did he create, what did he come into the world with, and what did he exit the world with? Zip.. If you place government above God, your government is your god. jmo

 

[lforrest]

I was going to post yesterday but lost what I was writing.

Dan57 has said it well.

There is nothing fair about progressive income taxes. What would be fair is everyone pays 15 cents on every dollar they earn. But the way it is someone making 50k a year pays 7 cents on their dollar, and someone making 135k a year pays 20 cents on their dollar.

Also concerning forced charity I have had some concerns with this before:
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/19089-which-is-greater-voluntary-or-compulsory-sacrifice/

 

[Tex]

@ dan57

By denying basic needs to the workers, you are "denying him his wages". The workforce is large, and so many are willing to work for less than a denari a day. They still deserve their daily wage, from the employer. Bracketed taxes force the charity that should be given to those workers.

Pay a man a just wage for his work, but understand that supply and demand is for commodities, not people.

To clairify, this should be for workers. Workers. And not the consistently or long term unemployed. Refusing to pull your own weight is adding an undue burden upon our neighbor.

 

[RANDOR]

@ dan57

By denying basic needs to the workers, you are "denying him his wages". The workforce is large, and so many are willing to work for less than a denari a day. They still deserve their daily wage, from the employer. Bracketed taxes force the charity that should be given to those workers.

Pay a man a just wage for his work, but understand that supply and demand is for commodities, not people.

To clairify, this should be for workers. Workers. And not the consistently or long term unemployed. Refusing to pull your own weight is adding an undue burden upon our neighbor.

Tex....love your love for Christ...Amen to that brother!
But I'm a business man........and I tell ya.......what is happening will come knocking on your door.
We just got our health insurance canceled last week..........watch yourself.....be alert...be ready.....there is nothing you can do about what these liberals
are going to do with your life.

I guess ya missed the headlines...3 weeks ago......32% of all business.s will shut their doors when this mandate hits.
Good luck findin a job or keeping yours when that takes place.
Business's shutting down right and left .

People...........also known as low informed voters are screamin for 15 dollars an hour for working at Mcdonalds.
HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! think you can afford one of their hamburgers when what i mentioned above comes to your household.

Actually the CEO of Mcdonalds....said NO WAY!!!!!...if ya want to go down that road, then we have no choice but to break out the robots we been
experimenting with.
So the 15.00 people screwed themselves.

It's called...give....... give me...give me everything I've never worked for...........even your home Tex.

Oh and by the way Tex.........................maybe ya better write down what we are discussing here...or make note of it.....date it and
put it above your computer.......and see how ya feel.......lets say in 9 months.....do believe your tune will change....sadly.

It sucks my friend...Your America.......will be no more. Sheeeeeeeeesh...can't even recognize it today

 

[lforrest]

By denying basic needs to the workers, you are "denying him his wages". The workforce is large, and so many are willing to work for less than a denari a day. They still deserve their daily wage, from the employer. Bracketed taxes force the charity that should be given to those workers.

When your forced to give something by definition it isn't charity...

Pay a man a just wage for his work, but understand that supply and demand is for commodities, not people.

I thought you wanted to focus on the morality of these issues, and ignore socioeconomics.

To clairify, this should be for workers. Workers. And not the consistently or long term unemployed. Refusing to pull your own weight is adding an undue burden upon our neighbor.

There are the employed that are a burden on their co-workers. Proverbs 26:10.

 

[Dan57]

@ dan57

By denying basic needs to the workers, you are "denying him his wages". The workforce is large, and so many are willing to work for less than a denari a day. They still deserve their daily wage, from the employer. Bracketed taxes force the charity that should be given to those workers.

Pay a man a just wage for his work, but understand that supply and demand is for commodities, not people.

To clairify, this should be for workers. Workers. And not the consistently or long term unemployed. Refusing to pull your own weight is adding an undue burden upon our neighbor.

Well that's a little more sensible Tex... But Obama's "Spread the wealth around" philosophy is an attempt to make everyone equal. Why would anyone strive to get ahead in a society like that? Economic growth depends on expansion and people take risk in business in order to prosper. Take that incentive away and people won't look at it as an opportunity, but a penalty for trying to succeed.

Need a doctor, call the government. Need a house loan. call the government. Want to go to college, call the government. Getting hungry, call the government. Want to retire, call the government. Don't have a phone to call the government, they'll give you one, etc, etc. When the government does everything but govern, we end up with 17 trillion in debt and a lazy society dependent on entitlements. Thank goodness Jesus said "and render to God the things that are God's", and not "Need salvation, call the government". You can bet that Caesar (king) and Obama (the anointed one) would both put a hefty tax on heaven if they could get their hands on it.

 

[RANDOR]

Well that's a little more sensible Tex... But Obama's "Spread the wealth around" philosophy is an attempt to make everyone equal. Why would anyone strive to get ahead in a society like that? Economic growth depends on expansion and people take risk in business in order to prosper. Take that incentive away and people won't look at it as an opportunity, but a penalty for trying to succeed.

Need a doctor, call the government. Need a house loan. call the government. Want to go to college, call the government. Getting hungry, call the government. Want to retire, call the government. Don't have a phone to call the government, they'll give you one, etc, etc. When the government does everything but govern, we end up with 17 trillion in debt and a lazy society dependent on entitlements. Thank goodness Jesus said "and render to God the things that are God's", and not "Need salvation, call the government". You can bet that Caesar (king) and Obama (the anointed one) would both put a hefty tax on heaven if they could get their hands on it.

Exactly right!!!!
But.....shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ....Nancy Pelosi might hear you....and call for a tax on heaven
What was it?.....yep....about three months ago about her remarks for gay marriage....the high preist or bishop what ever ya call those guys told her...
"denounce your faith, for the God you serve we don't recognize'....ooooooRahhh!

These people are sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What's the bible say about people such as this?.............oh-ya...............they have a form of religion....but deny its power.....
HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM!


Michael Savage wrote a book a few years back called.......Liberalism is a metal disorder.

Hey?............................conservatives are no better now.............they have no....well...ya know what they don't have

Just get your house in order.....and be prepared..........for the Libs are wakin up.....and fast.........but still to late.


Our LIAR_IN_CHIEF.......has one mission and one mission only......and I think you see it becoming reality.

 

[Tex]

@ Randor

Where did I say I wanted 15.00 minimum wage? I don't think minimum wage should ever move. Leave it as is.

@dan57

I don't think I like obama's "spread the wealth" programs. I do like the mentality of the "spread the wealth" though. It takes money to make money, so the millionaires should be taxed slightly more.

My problem right now is that there are too many loopholes. Money has been hidden in foreign accounts by companies, they pay themselves bonuses when the company gets bailed out.

 

[RANDOR]

@ Randor

Where did I say I wanted 15.00 minimum wage? I don't think minimum wage should ever move. Leave it as is.

@dan57

I don't think I like obama's "spread the wealth" programs. I do like the mentality of the "spread the wealth" though. It takes money to make money, so the millionaires should be taxed slightly more.

My problem right now is that there are too many loopholes. Money has been hidden in foreign accounts by companies, they pay themselves bonuses when the company gets bailed out.

Sorry dude..............i guess you're not a liberal after all your post said you were...or i read it wrong along with everyone else who replied to your thread.....according to as many who did reply......that's enough to call liberalism 100% wrong!!!
Because my friend...............what all we have talked about...and we just touched the tip.......that is liberalism.

And that is what is destroying your life, your childrens lives and their childrens lives.


Oh----and pertaining to sharing the wealth.........then get ready Tex..............because you are not exempt.....it will come out of your finances.....
Oblama has not said one word of truth....not one....and everything he sayzzzzzzz, he does the opposite.

Land taxes, wage taxes, ....heck dude..........watch what happens to your healthcare.....
you aint goin to be for share the wealth in a few months....when it's Tex paying for some low life (liberal) sittin on the couch.

Yes...you are right....many things are messes up...........but...they are messin things up worse....why?

Because America is done......goin to be pushin 21 trillion here pretty soon.
But that's ok...........the border crossers will be eyeing your job..............and doin it a lot cheaper........
Tex..................the soup lines are a comin................don't be caught in them.

i know you don't know me........but...this is what i do.....amongst other things.........
get prepared......for states and cities are about to fall..............remember date this........

 

[Tex]

@randor

But I already stated I don't to pay the mooches. Most liberals don't want to pay the mooches. Stop assuming we're retards.

And I want to pay more taxes. I only make about $700 a month, but bring it. I take no government assistance, but do take the tax discounts I qualify for.

And I am a liberal; low minimum wage and rational welfare restrictions don't stop that. I mean, government owned companies don't make me a liberal? Dan57 is kinda right calling me radical (not communist though, technically it'd be like "aristocratic socialist" or something).

 

[RANDOR]

@randor

But I already stated I don't to pay the mooches. Most liberals don't want to pay the mooches. Stop assuming we're retards.

And I want to pay more taxes. I only make about $700 a month, but bring it. I take no government assistance, but do take the tax discounts I qualify for.

And I am a liberal; low minimum wage and rational welfare restrictions don't stop that. I mean, government owned companies don't make me a liberal? Dan57 is kinda right calling me radical (not communist though, technically it'd be like "aristocratic socialist" or something).

You want to pay more taxes........what?????????????...well ok......it won't be long....that 700.00 per month will be 247.00 per month...good luck livin on that......but remember you wanted it..................now...when that happens...you will remember you had been warned.
all i can say to ya is.........................hope your legs don't fall asleep when you and your family are in the soup lines.......and ya know why you will be and us along side of you in those soup lines....it will be because of liberal thinking.....
I can't believe you can't see this happening............sheeeeeeeeeeeeeshhhhhh...it's all over the internet and news 24/7
In new york in some places it is close to 50% tax.............that would give you 350.00....so 2 weeks out of four you are working for the government or 6 months out of a year your working for the government. and that's just wages....don't forget land taxes, so on and so forth.

And i don't mean to get personal with ya.....but Tex...how ya makin it on 700.00 per month? I wouldn't of even asked that question if i wasn't concerned since you are a brother in Christ.
Remember....Jesus wants the best for you....He wants you to prosper....so you can help others.
God Bless †

 

[aspen]

i cant believe it took solong to find this thread! i applaud you, Tex. You are actually more liberal than me and your views make a lot of sense.

Unfortunately, many conservative Christians feel the need to demonize everything they disagree with or at least declare war on it....

 

[Tex]

@Randor

If I were to pay more taxes, where would the tax money go? It's not like the government can make a profit. If I payed 50% in taxes total, either prices would go down or I would be receiving tax deductions because I don't make enough. The taxes would have to go somewhere. Money just doesn't magically disappear. The government is going to replace dollar bills in the market. It's psuedo-free as compared to laissez faire.

Here's how I see it. Each individual has a set number of resources: that which is consumed and that which is invested. Lets say Allan makes 50,000 a year and Bobby makes 100,000 a year, a 2x difference. Allan consumes 75% of his resources, leaving 12,500, and Bobby consumes 75% of his resources, leaving 25,000. They take the money left and invest and double their money. Allan at the next following year has 75,000 and Bobby has 150,000. Right?

No. Allan makes $50,000, but has to consume 95% of it. Bobby at 100,000 doesn't have to consume as much, just 80%. The extra resources of Bobby allow him to invest more simply because he starts with more. This system allows the wealthy to get wealthier at an exponential rate. This is why bracketed taxes are necessary: money makes money.

And $700 a month is plenty. I even have enough left over for a girlfriend. $300 a month on rent, $100 on gas, and $300 for food and the girly. I do feel bad because I do not tithe in a traditional fashion, but I donate about 10-12 hours to my church in the course of a week. At 7.25, I tithe just over 10%.

@aspen

I am socially conservative, as listed in the first post. So long as you understood that points like abortion will come above any political decision, we're good to go =)

 

[aspen]

well, i am personally socially conservative, but i recognize the rights of people in our country who are not. That being said, i do not believe churches should have to conform to secular beliefs. No minister or ministry should be forced to marry homosexuals and no catholic hospitals should be forced to provide contraceptives.

I am also not a one issue voter

 

[Dan57]

@Randor

If I were to pay more taxes, where would the tax money go? It's not like the government can make a profit. If I payed 50% in taxes total, either prices would go down or I would be receiving tax deductions because I don't make enough. The taxes would have to go somewhere. Money just doesn't magically disappear. The government is going to replace dollar bills in the market. It's psuedo-free as compared to laissez faire.

That's a good question, where would your tax dollars go? $355 billion goes to pay the interest on the national debt every year. And your president just asked for another $3-$4 billion for the thousands of illegals flooding across our southern border. If the rich paid 100% tax, we couldn't balance the federal budget, and if we spent ZERO on defense, it wouldn't balance the budget. When I look at how the government blows my tax dollars, I don't want to give them another dime. I don't feel patriotic paying taxes, I feel like I'm buying a heroin addict his next fix.

And when the government prints new money, it devalues the money that already exist and causes inflation. If nothing changes, the dollar will collapse and we'll see hard times like never before. So instead of paying more taxes, buy some gold and a gun.

 

[RANDOR]

Dan57......you said it...........the dollar is about to collapse....I don't know where Tex has been livin....apparently he doesn't know that what he is proposing is the cause of Russia and China dropping the dollar and many others are starting to follow. Tex is living like there is a solution....I guess he is willing to give up most of his rights if not all as an American. Even the Libs are coming out now and calling what Tex is wanting a disaster...they are finally seein it
God...help us all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And this at this point has nothing ot do with liberal or conservative.....the damage is already done....it's becoming each man for himself.
I have more to tell Tex.....but.......I need to get to church...later