If a Christian Commits Suicide

[Fire-7]

OK, I know that this has been one of those arguments of the ages. But all of my life, I have been taught, matter of factly, that suicide is a automatic first class ticket to hell. I still am trying to find out where the scripture vers is that this doctrine is based on??? I have yet to hear a preacher quote a passage that points to suicide being an unpardonable sin.

I was surprised when I heard Curt Karr, a famous black gospel music leader, give his testimony on TBN about his unsuccessful suicide attempt. He made a comment that caught me off guard. "I would have gone to Heaven...". This was especially surprising to me, coming from a black preacher, being that black people were especially brought up in denominations that strongly enforced the hellfire-and-brimestone message (me being black myself), and suicide being one of those things that our culture was especially taught was a NO-NO. He was the first preacher I heard say that he would have gone to Heaven after his suicide. So, obviosly, everyone does not agree that suicide will send you to hell.

I even heard a story a while ago of a preacher who's mother was also a preacher, who shot herself in the head. Even prophetess Juanita Bynum a couple of years ago, admitted that she tried to kill herself after her very public divorce. so now I'm wondering about this issue of suicide. If it is an unpardonable sin, why are so many Christians doing it? And where did the doctrine come from?

 

[Joshua David]

OK, I know that this has been one of those arguments of the ages. But all of my life, I have been taught, matter of factly, that suicide is a automatic first class ticket to hell. I still am trying to find out where the scripture vers is that this doctrine is based on??? I have yet to hear a preacher quote a passage that points to suicide being an unpardonable sin.

I was surprised when I heard Curt Karr, a famous black gospel music leader, give his testimony on TBN about his unsuccessful suicide attempt. He made a comment that caught me off guard. "I would have gone to Heaven...". This was especially surprising to me, coming from a black preacher, being that black people were especially brought up in denominations that strongly enforced the hellfire-and-brimestone message (me being black myself), and suicide being one of those things that our culture was especially taught was a NO-NO. He was the first preacher I heard say that he would have gone to Heaven after his suicide. So, obviosly, everyone does not agree that suicide will send you to hell.

I even heard a story a while ago of a preacher who's mother was also a preacher, who shot herself in the head. Even prophetess Juanita Bynum a couple of years ago, admitted that she tried to kill herself after her very public divorce. so now I'm wondering about this issue of suicide. If it is an unpardonable sin, why are so many Christians doing it? And where did the doctrine come from?

There is only one unpardonable sin, and that is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. This teaching comes from the erroneousness thought that after you are saved if you commit a sin then you lose your salvation until you repent of that sin. So in effect, you are saved, sin,so you are lost, repent, get saved, sin,so you are lost, repent, get saved, sin,so you are lost, repent, get saved, ect. If you commit suicide, and are successful, then by definition you are unable to repent, therefore, they believe that you die in a lost condition and go to hell. The bible refutes this teaching, by telling us that we are sealed until redemption.


Eph 4:30 [sup]30[/sup]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


[font="'Times New Roman"]Now whether that seal can ever be broken, is still a matter of discussion between bible scholars, depending on their belief of Once Saved Always Saved. But a seal is not something that can be broken, resealed, broken, resealed, broken, resealed, and so on.[/font]
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[font="'Times New Roman"]So no, while I do not believe that suicide is an automatic sentence to Hell, it is NEVER the will of God.[/font]
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[font="'Times New Roman"]Joshua David[/font]

 

[Fire-7]

There is only one unpardonable sin, and that is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. This teaching comes from the erroneousness thought that after you are saved if you commit a sin then you lose your salvation until you repent of that sin. So in effect, you are saved, sin,so you are lost, repent, get saved, sin,so you are lost, repent, get saved, sin,so you are lost, repent, get saved, ect. If you commit suicide, and are successful, then by definition you are unable to repent, therefore, they believe that you die in a lost condition and go to hell. The bible refutes this teaching, by telling us that we are sealed until redemption.


Eph 4:30 [sup]30[/sup]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


Now whether that seal can ever be broken, is still a matter of discussion between bible scholars, depending on their belief of Once Saved Always Saved. But a seal is not something that can be broken, resealed, broken, resealed, broken, resealed, and so on.


So no, while I do not believe that suicide is an automatic sentence to Hell, it is NEVER the will of God.


Joshua David

This is what I have heard that the teaching was based upon--the matter of enternal security. Eteranl Security: this is an issue that deserves a thread of its on. I'm not sure if it has been discussed here, but it is definitely THE argument of the ages; along side the matter of "free will". I find it very confusing, and sad, at least, that christians disagree on so many important and central issues. Why would G-d be so vague on issues that have to do with your eternal soul, I don't know. But I would hate for someone to follow a doctrine that says suicide won't send you to hell, commit suicide and find out that they were wrong That would be such an eternal tragedy.

 

[Disciple]

It is an unpardonable sin, don't have the scripture handy but suicide comes with no repentance, unless its a situation or one like Samsons in the book of Judges.

 

[Joshua David]

It is an unpardonable sin, don't have the scripture handy but suicide comes with no repentance, unless its a situation or one like Samsons in the book of Judges.

I would really like to see the scripture that you have to back that up. Please take your time looking it up.

Joshua David

 

[Templar81]

I once heard from a local Catholic priest that when a person is driven to suiicide, they are actually suffering from a mental illness because no Christian in their right mind would do such a thing. He said that a loving God would not codemn them to Hell because their judgement was clouded and they could not be held accountable for the sin. This isn't what Catholics have traditionally said about suicide I know, but it makes sense.

I woudl say also, that for a Christian believerto do such a thing shows that he/she was in an even greater state of confusion than say an athiest would be.

 

[Disciple]

It is written that our bodies are the temple of the living God, so if we destroy our body we are destroying Gods temple.

1John 5:16 in the KJV holy bible, it is written about if you see your brother sin a sin not unto death pray to God and he will forgive him, and it talks about a sin that is unto death and says not to pray for the man who does it. And since suicide is the only sin unto death, read the verse and let the holy Spirit teach.
verse 17 goes onto say 'ALL unrighteousness is sin' therefore suicide not being a righteous thing to do is sin, and it is a sin unto death, and the sinner being dead, where is the repentence?

 

[Joshua David]

It is written that our bodies are the temple of the living God, so if we destroy our body we are destroying Gods temple.

You are right, but when you overeat, and die from complications directly related to your bad habits, you have destroyed the temple just as sure as someone who took a bottle of pills. Does that mean that all the over-weight people are going to hell too?

I am still waiting for a scripture that says that suicide is an unpardonable sin. Suicide is murder, but it is not unpardonable. If you ever find that verse then please don't hesitate to post it.


Joshua David

 

[Disciple]

Okay suicide is murder, and murder is a sin, and after doing it your dead having destroyed yourself and Gods temple, and you are no longer living.. how can you then pardon or repent of the sin?
If you are contemplating suicide please privately msg me, I have been in the situation before, more than once. Dont hesitate to pm me, text message me or even call me. (615)420-5952
Devon.

 

[Joshua David]

Okay suicide is murder, and murder is a sin, and after doing it your dead having destroyed yourself and Gods temple, and you are no longer living.. how can you then pardon or repent of the sin?
If you are contemplating suicide please privately msg me, I have been in the situation before, more than once. Dont hesitate to pm me, text message me or even call me. (615)420-5952
Devon.

Because you do not lose your salvation when you sin. Am I saying do not repent? Absolutely not. What I am saying is that at the moment that you gave your life to God, ALL your sin was placed on the cross. The sin that you have done the past, the sin that you are doing at the time, and the sin that you will do in the future. In fact, all sin, from Adam's sin to the last sin committed at the end of the Millennium was placed on the cross. This is what being sealed until the day of redemption means.

To break the seal, if it is even possible, means to totally, and completely reject God. If it is possible, then once the seal is broken, that's it. You're done. Game over. So it can't be just committing a sin, any sin, including murder, or even suicide. The other thing to consider is this. We are saved by grace through faith, not of works. Right? This means that we do not receive our Salvation by works, but also it means that we do not maintain our Salvation by works. Our Salvation is totally given to us and maintained by the finished work of Christ on the Cross. Now I am not saying that we are incapable of rejecting that Salvation, but committing a sin is not enough to separate you from the love of God. It may cost you some of your rewards, but it will not send you to Hell.

Joshua David

 

[Disciple]

Like that verse in 1John says there are sins that are to be repented of and there is a sin unto death..

It is written in Hebrews 6:4-7 and Hebrews 10:26, that if we sin willingly or willfully after coming to the truth there remains no more remission or forgiveness of sins. Suicide being done willingly is a prime example in this matter. Therefore if it is done, like it says in Heb 10:27 there only remains a fearful looking for of judgement and firey indignation.
Context from the KJV Holy Book.
Sometimes the answers not always clear in ink and paper but with the Holy Spirit put the peices together and its clear.
With love, Devon.

You say that it is not by works that we are saved, which is true we are saved through grace by faith in Jesus.. And the word also says Faith without works is dead.

 

[Templar81]

"Thou shalt not kill" or 2thou shalt do not murder."

Couldn't this be applied to suicide since murder is forbidden and suicide si the murder of the self.

 

[TexUs]

This is what I have heard that the teaching was based upon--the matter of enternal security. Eteranl Security: this is an issue that deserves a thread of its on. I'm not sure if it has been discussed here, but it is definitely THE argument of the ages; along side the matter of "free will". I find it very confusing, and sad, at least, that christians disagree on so many important and central issues. Why would G-d be so vague on issues that have to do with your eternal soul, I don't know. But I would hate for someone to follow a doctrine that says suicide won't send you to hell, commit suicide and find out that they were wrong That would be such an eternal tragedy.

First, why do you use "G-d"?

Second, the Bible is abundantly clear Eternal Security is a real thing. "He who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it"... God would be a LIAR if that was not true.

The passages you'll see that seem to address "falling away" are addressing false/fake Christians.

I also don't know why a true Christian would kill themselves.

Here's my view.
Will killing yourself net a ticket to hell? NO.
But why did you kill yourself? I cannot fathom why a Christian would ever do it. The act of killing yourself, from what I can see in the Bible, shall call into question that individual's salvation legitimacy.

I once heard from a local Catholic priest that when a person is driven to suiicide, they are actually suffering from a mental illness

Nonsense. I think the mental illness is a bunch of crap excuse created by an excuse-ridden society and not found anywhere in the Bible.
But Catholics make stuff up all the time that's not in the Bible so I guess I'm not surprised.

Like that verse in 1John says there are sins that are to be repented of and there is a sin unto death..

I think drawing parallel lines between another NT passage (Acts 5) and the OT passage regarding Moses... There's two "types" of sin.
1) Deliberate/Habitual/Reigning. The Bible is clear those that do this are not Christians.
2) Remnants of sin from your old self.

 

[Joshua David]

Like that verse in 1John says there are sins that are to be repented of and there is a sin unto death..

It is written in Hebrews 6:4-7 and Hebrews 10:26, that if we sin willingly or willfully after coming to the truth there remains no more remission or forgiveness of sins. Suicide being done willingly is a prime example in this matter. Therefore if it is done, like it says in Heb 10:27 there only remains a fearful looking for of judgement and firey indignation.
Context from the KJV Holy Book.
Sometimes the answers not always clear in ink and paper but with the Holy Spirit put the peices together and its clear.
With love, Devon.

Devon,

Please understand brother, that I am not trying to tear you down or pick on you. And I really do understand what you are saying because I used to think exactly like you do. But consider this. If we take your interpretation of the scripture you just quoted and really apply it to everyday life.

Let's say that you had a friend who was slightly annoying at times. Maybe he just had some annoying habits that just get on your nerves sometimes. Well you have this date that you are really looking forward to, but your friend asks you if you are going to come over and hang out.. You don't want to hurt his feelings, so you say, "Sorry man, my mom has really been on my case about my homework. I can't, but I will try next week." Now your mom hasn't said anything to you lately about your homework, so what you did, was just lied... willfully.

And before everyone starts ripping my example apart and saying, "yeah will I would have just told the truth," remember this is just my example. Unless you claim to live a completely sinless life. Anyone want to make that claim?

My point is every sin we do, unless somone has a gun to our head is willful. We may know it is wrong to say our little white lies, or to talk behind someone's back, or anything. It is all willful. So if you are going to apply that verse to all sin that is done willfully, then you have to apply it to all sin.

Now what does the verse say?

Hebrew 10:26-27 [sup]26[/sup]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[sup]27[/sup]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

<a name="28">This means that if we apply this verse to all sin then the first time you told a little white lie, the first time you willfully looked at something you know you shouldn't have, the first time we did something that we knew was wrong, we were done because there remains no more sacrifice for sins. Which means that there is no hope for us. The only thing that we have to look forward to is judgment and fiery indignation. I don't know about you, but if that was true, then I am in real trouble. There is no second chances, there is no do overs, there is no forgiveness. How could God forgive our sin if there remains no more sacrifice for our sins?

So then if this doesn't mean that then what does it mean? To find out, we have to consider the term sin. What is sin? Sin that which is not holy. That which runs counter to God. Sin means to turn away from God. What this verse is saying is that if we willfully reject God, and turn away from him, then there remains no more sacrifice for sins. When we reject God, we reject the Holy Spirit. And in rejecting the Holy Spirit, we reject the one thing that allows us to turn back to God, because it is the Holy Spirit that convicts us.

God in his love provided a way for our Salvation, that was based on Christ's work. If we reject this, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, and all we are left with is a fearful looking for judgment and fiery indignation.

Joshua David

 

[Fire-7]

It is an unpardonable sin, don't have the scripture handy but suicide comes with no repentance, unless its a situation or one like Samsons in the book of Judges.

What would make Samson's situation any different? If it is definitely an unpardonable sin, then G-d would not compromise his H-ly, eternal law for one person, regardless of his reasonings--that would make G-d unstable.

 

[Disciple]

Do you know the story of Samsom? and he is even mentioned in one of the NT epistiles as a hero.

 

[Fire-7]

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The Jews use a *dash* for the o in God's name because they believe that G-d's name is too Holy to utter. I use it in this manner--not as tradition or religion, but as a symbol of reverence.


There are also passages in the bible which clearly suggest that a person can lose their salvation. i listened to a thorough teaching by Perry Stone on the subject, and he pointed out many of the passages in scripture in favor of the "conditional-eternal-security side. Maybe this is why it is so controversial; because there's evidence for both sides of the argument--which is confusing in itself.

 

[TexUs]

The Jews use a *dash* for the o in God's name because they believe that G-d's name is too Holy to utter. I use it in this manner--not as tradition or religion, but as a symbol of reverence.

I wasn't aware the Jewish cared about the English name for God.

There are also passages in the bible which clearly suggest that a person can lose their salvation. i listened to a thorough teaching by Perry Stone on the subject, and he pointed out many of the passages in scripture in favor of the "conditional-eternal-security side. Maybe this is why it is so controversial; because there's evidence for both sides of the argument--which is confusing in itself.

It's actually not confusing. I do suggest, if you're leaning on a teaching of some other person to form your beliefs, Google both sides of the issue and study both sides, and all applicable passages, for yourself, before forming an opinion.

So then if this doesn't mean that then what does it mean? To find out, we have to consider the term sin. What is sin? Sin that which is not holy. That which runs counter to God. Sin means to turn away from God. What this verse is saying is that if we willfully reject God, and turn away from him, then there remains no more sacrifice for sins. When we reject God, we reject the Holy Spirit. And in rejecting the Holy Spirit, we reject the one thing that allows us to turn back to God, because it is the Holy Spirit that convicts us.

Yes and no...

Sin is doing anything contrary to God's law.

You can sin by getting plastered drunk. It doesn't necessarily mean you've rejected God (though in a sense, it does- hence why I said yes and no).

Since I brought it up, let me just use it as an example. Let's suppose you had a problem with drinking. You meet Christ, you're beating that problem.
However, you know if you drink: you might give into the temptation and just go all out again.

Intentionally starting to drink, when you know you can't keep from getting drunk... Would be a blatant and intentional sin. Is this a habitual thing? Does sin like this reign in your life? This is what John was talking about, sins that lead to death... These are the sins he talks about that don't mark a true Christian.

 

[Joshua David]

[/color]
I wasn't aware the Jewish cared about the English name for God.


It's actually not confusing. I do suggest, if you're leaning on a teaching of some other person to form your beliefs, Google both sides of the issue and study both sides, and all applicable passages, for yourself, before forming an opinion.

Yes and no...

Sin is doing anything contrary to God's law.

You can sin by getting plastered drunk. It doesn't necessarily mean you've rejected God (though in a sense, it does- hence why I said yes and no).

Since I brought it up, let me just use it as an example. Let's suppose you had a problem with drinking. You meet Christ, you're beating that problem.
However, you know if you drink: you might give into the temptation and just go all out again.

Intentionally starting to drink, when you know you can't keep from getting drunk... Would be a blatant and intentional sin. Is this a habitual thing? Does sin like this reign in your life? This is what John was talking about, sins that lead to death... These are the sins he talks about that don't mark a true Christian.

This is why I do not believe that Hebrews 10 is talking about sin as in lying, stealing or even committing suicide. All I am saying is that you can't take Hebrews 10 and apply it to just suicide. If there is no remaining sacrifice then there is no remaining sacrifice. What is true about suicide, is true about lying, stealing or getting drunk.

Joshua David

 

[Templar81]

Nonsense. I think the mental illness is a bunch of crap excuse created by an excuse-ridden society and not found anywhere in the Bible.
But Catholics make stuff up all the time that's not in the Bible so I guess I'm not surprised.

If you don't think suicides got to Hell, then what why do you think that my statement is such a bad thing.

The reason why you woudl have to be mentally ill to kill yourself is because self preservation is something that all living things have and the prolonging of life is something that all living things have built into them to do. (except for lemmings maybe). To not wish to preserve one's life but to end it is therefore contrary to nature and God. For someone to go through it, how can they possibly be in the right mind since being in the right mind is to want to preerve one's life.

it is the Devil that gives people thoughts of suicide, in an attempt to lead us away from God, but God's love is stronger and he knows the differnce between wilful sinning and doing something wrong when he are not mentally capable of normal reasonning.

Scripture is not so clear on suicide, so we have to look outside for ansers. Whislt the scriptures conttain all we need for salvation we mut remember that they can't give us the answers to everything and soemtimes we have to look outside, like it or not.