If our interpretation of scripture sidesteps common sense, did we get it right?

[rwb]

Proverbs 2:7-17​

7 He grants a treasure of common sense to the honest. He is a shield to those who walk with integrity.
8 He guards the paths of the just and protects those who are faithful to him.
9 Then you will understand what is right, just, and fair, and you will find the right way to go.
10 For wisdom will enter your heart, and knowledge will fill you with joy.
11 Wise choices will watch over you. Understanding will keep you safe.
12 Wisdom will save you from evil people, from those whose words are twisted.
13 These men turn from the right way to walk down dark paths.
14 They take pleasure in doing wrong, and they enjoy the twisted ways of evil.
15 Their actions are crooked, and their ways are wrong.
16 Wisdom will save you from the immoral woman, from the seductive words of the promiscuous woman.
17 She has abandoned her husband and ignores the covenant she made before God.

Not sure what translation you use here, but I don't think "common sense" is a very good translation for "sound wisdom". The two are not necessarily the same thing.

Proverbs 2:7-17 (KJV) He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly. He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints. Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path. When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul; Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee: To deliver thee from the way of the evil man, from the man that speaketh froward things; Who leave the paths of uprightness, to walk in the ways of darkness; Who rejoice to do evil, and delight in the frowardness of the wicked; Whose ways are crooked, and they froward in their paths: To deliver thee from the strange woman, even from the stranger which flattereth with her words; Which forsaketh the guide of her youth, and forgetteth the covenant of her God.

 

[Peterlag]

Here is your premise.

Now you are including workarounds to accommodate your weak premise. IMHO

- The Ethiopian Eunuch was baptized in water.
- There is no reason to assume that the members of the house of Cornelius were NOT water baptized.
They had already received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence of such.

Furthermore, early church writings before the RCC was established indicate water baptism.
As we see here in the Didache (teaching of the Twelve Apostles) written in the first, or second century AD

Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

/

Again, water accomplishes nothing other than to get you wet. The power of God is in the new birth which is the result of the baptism of the spirit of Christ.

 

[St. SteVen]

As usual, You have a hard to understanding what people say

More like...
I'm trying to get people to understand what THEY are saying.
You presented an obvious conundrum.

/

 

[Peterlag]

Why did the Lord submit to being baptized in water? Was He not setting an example for His disciples (Church) to follow?

My apologies St Steven. I don't mean to highjack your thread!

John who was known as the Baptizer, and not a minister for the Church of God. John who was a prophet functioning under the old covenant was appointed by God to prepare and confirm the promises made to Israel. His message was to tell those who lived under the old covenant that the king had come and “the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” He used water as a sign to baptize those who believed the promised Messiah would be coming in just a matter of months and to illustrate that he would be the Christ.

 

[Ritajanice]

Not sure what translation you use here, but I don't think "common sense" is a very good translation for "sound wisdom". The two are not necessarily the same thing.

We all interpret differently and everyone has their “ own” opinion....as I’ve explained before, my opinion and your opinion is just that “ an opinion “....doesn’t make it God’s truth.

Proverbs 3:13-18 CEV​

God blesses everyone who has wisdom and common sense. Wisdom is worth more than silver; it makes you much richer than gold. Wisdom is more valuable than precious jewels; nothing you want compares with her. In her right hand Wisdom holds a long life, and in her left hand are wealth and honor. Wisdom makes life pleasant and leads us safely along. Wisdom is a life-giving tree, the source of happiness for all who hold on to her.

 

[Ritajanice]

More like...
I'm trying to get people to understand what THEY are saying.
You presented an obvious conundrum.

/

How can you get people to understand what they are saying?

Only God can get me to understand his word.

I say a load of tripe to a friend, at times, she does the same to me..what’s that about?

It’s about, both having a laugh and sharing an opinion, no common sense it.

 

[St. SteVen]

Again, water accomplishes nothing other than to get you wet. The power of God is in the new birth which is the result of the baptism of the spirit of Christ.

Water baptism is a religious ceremony. So, I believe baptism does more than get you wet.
The purpose of a religious ceremony is as an outward sign of an inward reality.
Intended to be a public confession of faith and an entrance into the fellowship of the church.
As we see here at the end of Acts chapter two.

Acts 2:41 NIV
Those who accepted his message were baptized,
and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

/

 

[rwb]

Again, water accomplishes nothing other than to get you wet. The power of God is in the new birth which is the result of the baptism of the spirit of Christ.

This is not true. Water baptism, like circumcision of Old, shows a separation between the body of Christ and the world. We are called to separate ourselves from the world, and this ordinance is a means the Church utilizes, as did Christ, to prove to the world that we are not the same because we are Christians, seeking things from above.

 

[Ritajanice]

This is not true. Water baptism, like circumcision of Old, shows a separation between the body of Christ and the world. We are called to separate ourselves from the world, and this ordinance is a means the Church utilizes, as did Christ, to prove to the world that we are not the same because we are Christians, seeking things from above.

Water baptism does not bring you Alive in Christ....only the Holy Spirit can do that.

Water baptism symbolises out with the old life as we are submerged.....as we come up out of the water, we have washed away our old life...we are in our new life.

Water just gets you wet....it just a symbol, that is all.

 

[St. SteVen]

Why did the Lord submit to being baptized in water? Was He not setting an example for His disciples (Church) to follow?

Jesus, and/or his disciples were baptizing as well.

John 3:22 NIV
After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside,
where he spent some time with them, and baptized.

John 4:1-2 NIV
Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John—
2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.

/ cc: @Peterlag

 

[Ritajanice]

Again, water accomplishes nothing other than to get you wet. The power of God is in the new birth which is the result of the baptism of the spirit of Christ.

Amen!!....it just symbolises out with the old in with the new..imo.( water baptism)

 

[rwb]

Water baptism does not bring you Alive in Christ....only the Holy Spirit can do that.

Water baptism symbolises out with the old life as we are submerged.....as we come up out of the water, we have washed away our old life...we are in our new life.

Water just gets you wet....it just a symbol, that is all.

Yes, it symbolizes the life, death and resurrection of Christ.

Romans 6:4 (KJV) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Colossians 2:12 (KJV) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

More like...
I'm trying to get people to understand what THEY are saying.
You presented an obvious conundrum.

/

You doing exactly what I said. You trying to get people to see it your way. I have only introduced a conundrum in your wisdom..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, it symbolizes the life, death and resurrection of Christ.

Romans 6:4 (KJV) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Colossians 2:12 (KJV) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Just remember

this is spirit baptism not water..

God baptized us into the death of Christ, And he raised us to new life

 

[Bob Estey]

We've all heard the vacuous mantra: "God said it, I believe it, that settles it."
What does this communicate parenthetically?
"It doesn't need to make sense, I just need to accept it." ??? (with a shrug?)

Do we really need to check our brain at the door when we go to church?

There are three subjects that I post a lot about:
1) Universalism (UR)
2) The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law (four different things)
3) LGBT issues and the church

On the forum, and elsewhere, I run into the common sense roadblock on all three.
Some Christians seem to be incapable of applying common sense to these things.

Perhaps you have subjects that give you similar problems?

If our interpretation of scripture sidesteps common sense, did we get it right?

/

Different people might define "common sense" differently. If the Bible quotes God or Jesus as saying this or that, then "common sense" tells me to believe what they said,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As far as proverbs 2 goes. it is best to look back in the origional language.

the word is tusiyya - by interpretation it means תּוּשִׁיָּה, תֻּשִׁיָּה Pr 3:21. †:—1. success, (good) results Is 28:29; ʿāśâ tûšiyyâ achieve success Jb 5:12; sugg. effective counsel 26:3;—2. circumspection, prudence? Pr 3:21.

So i agree, Common Sense is not a good translation

 

[Peterlag]

Amen!!....it just symbolises out with the old in with the new..imo.( water baptism)

What the heck is wrong with you? Why do you get it and so many others on here don't?

 

[Peterlag]

Jesus, and/or his disciples were baptizing as well.

John 3:22 NIV
After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside,
where he spent some time with them, and baptized.

John 4:1-2 NIV
Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John—
2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.

/ cc: @Peterlag

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not the "New Testament" since God did not put a paper in the Bible between Malachi and Matthew that says New Testament. Men did that... probably Catholics.

 

[Peterlag]

This is not true. Water baptism, like circumcision of Old, shows a separation between the body of Christ and the world. We are called to separate ourselves from the world, and this ordinance is a means the Church utilizes, as did Christ, to prove to the world that we are not the same because we are Christians, seeking things from above.

Galatians 3:21-22
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Galatians 5:1-4
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

We will fall from the understanding of the grace that is in Christ, and succumb to the doctrines and theories that are dictated by human conception if we seek justification by our own works. The concision was from those who taught circumcision was necessary for salvation. Circumcision is a work of the flesh required by the Old Testament Law, and by the way so is water baptism, which is a carryover from part of the Levitical Law.

 

[Peterlag]

Water baptism is a religious ceremony. So, I believe baptism does more than get you wet.
The purpose of a religious ceremony is as an outward sign of an inward reality.
Intended to be a public confession of faith and an entrance into the fellowship of the church.
As we see here at the end of Acts chapter two.

Acts 2:41 NIV
Those who accepted his message were baptized,
and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

/

No water mentioned in Acts 2:41

Galatians 3:21-22
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Galatians 5:1-4
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

We will fall from the understanding of the grace that is in Christ, and succumb to the doctrines and theories that are dictated by human conception if we seek justification by our own works. The concision was from those who taught circumcision was necessary for salvation. Circumcision is a work of the flesh required by the Old Testament Law, and by the way so is water baptism, which is a carryover from part of the Levitical Law.