If our interpretation of scripture sidesteps common sense, did we get it right?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
That is a good point. However, John introduced Jesus as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Jesus was baptized but what accomplied that baptism? The Holy Spirit appeared and the Father spoke from Heaven. Just a water baptism by itself wouldn't mean much, wouldn't prove much to all the onlookers. Just as His talk was backed up by miracles. If He just came with talk, who would be convinced. That was an event, "God is with us" ... "Did you see and hear that?" " That has to be the Messiah, the Christ". They went out and spread the news. There were no doubts at that scene.
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Yes, which is what baptism by water symbolizes. In the same way that crossing of the sea was symbolic of being baptized unto Moses, the servant of the Lord. Death to slavery and life through the water, in which Israel was saved and saw "that great work which the LORD did..." In the same way Christians are baptized with water unto Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:2 (KJV) And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
Exodus 14:30-31 (KJV) Thus the LORD saved Israel that day out of the hand of the Egyptians; and Israel saw the Egyptians dead upon the sea shore. And Israel saw that great work which the LORD did upon the Egyptians: and the people feared the LORD, and believed the LORD, and his servant Moses.
I think this shows the connection between water baptism and Holy Spirit Baptism in the early church.
But the Holy Spirit Baptism was always confirmed with evidence of a manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
In the case of the house of Cornelius, the Baptism with the Holy Spirit came first, followed by water baptism.
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A baptism of repentance is.
Given here as a prerequisite to filling with the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38-39 NIV
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you,
in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.
And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—
for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
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Who here has argued that water baptism is the means of being justified before God? Just because some denominations wrongly teach that obedience to the Law is necessary to be justified before God, does not mean the ordinances of the Church should be done away with. Rightly taught and practiced water baptism, as I've said serves the purpose of making a distinction between the body of Christ, Church, and the world. That is the reason that Christ left us with the mandate: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" Matthew 28:19 (KJV)
It isn't so much a matter of 'common sense' (which isn't very common at all) but through Jesus we were taught to consider God not as a tyrant, hell-bent on condemning and torturing the disobedient evil-doers, but as a loving Father, eager to forgive, accept and restore.
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
The OP reminds me of atheist memes I see on the Net.
Since when is common sense a factor in religious faith? When secular reality very often doesn't make sense.
Oxymorons: Civil War. Pure evil.
A nation that boasts itself a free country. While its citizens labor to make a living only to be forced under penalty of the people's Constitution,and Federal law, to give their government a percentage of their earned income.
A "Lockdown Order", in the 21st century, commanding people stay in their homes to avoid infection but an air born virus.
If the Bible doesn't seem to make sense it could be because it was written by a people who thought the earth was flat. And they tried to communicate through idioms,metaphor,simile, etc... an understanding for why we exist. And that we should behave.
And in order to drive it home,they threatened that non-compliance to the controls the bible imparts would result in the disobedient burning alive for eternity once they're dead.
Since when is common sense a factor in religious faith? When secular reality very often doesn't make sense.
Oxymorons: Civil War. Pure evil.
A nation that boasts itself a free country. While its citizens labor to make a living only to be forced under penalty of the people's Constitution,and Federal law, to give their government a percentage of their earned income.
A "Lockdown Order", in the 21st century, commanding people stay in their homes to avoid infection but an air born virus.
If the Bible doesn't seem to make sense it could be because it was written by a people who thought the earth was flat. And they tried to communicate through idioms,metaphor,simile, etc... an understanding for why we exist. And that we should behave.
And in order to drive it home,they threatened that non-compliance to the controls the bible imparts would result in the disobedient burning alive for eternity once they're dead.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
The key distinction that John the Baptist made between his water baptism and a more powerful baptism is this:
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matt. 3:11
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I agree. People get baptized AFTER they have been touched, sealed, born again, accepted Christ, etc. The ceremony getting dunked under water merely symbolizes the end of the old life and the beginning of the new life, which has, in point of fact, already happened.
I believe this is akin to marriage. The couples commitment came when they agreed to get married. The ceremony of standing at the alter is just a formality, formally symbolizing that commitment.
John baptized those who believed the Messiah was coming--Jesus baptism was for those who believed on him.
Why do you think it was necessary that Jesus be baptized? What was he repenting of?
--Or do you think it was simply pretense? A charade?
That w
That with the greater of the spirit that came the lesser of water was done away with.
You must be baptised in the Spirit....by the “ Holy Spirit”
Water is a symbol, no more no less..
That's your opinion, and you're entitled to believe whatever you wish. Remember opinion without validation from the Bible remains opinion, and of no value in discerning biblical truths.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Certainly that depends on our definition of "common sense" or what context you mean.
In one context or respect "common sense" would mean "your own understanding", in which case it would be completely suspect.
However, I get your point and believe you do not mean that context, but rather as you also said about not "checking your brain at the door when we go to church." Which is true, one ought to be able to "reason" regarding the truth from and of God. The worst case scenario I come across is the intentional blindness to reasonably consider things against what is preconceived and therefore believed...or worse, heard and blindly believed against obvious contradictions, i.e., the blind leading the blind.
The greatest of these issues regarding these times, is the militant rejection against the idea that "false teachers" as foretold in scripture did in fact enter into the church teaching "destructive doctrines" that became so common that they are now accepted and believed to be the truth. As these things were foretold--everyone should as much as expect that what they have been taught should be considered as possibly being in error. But, no, what most call the very idea that the foretold "false teachers" entering into the church and teaching "destructive doctrines", is heresy. And by so doing, they themselves become the heretics.
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What do you make of this?
John 7:38 NIV
Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”
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