If you think Mary remained a virgin till she died, then bet on it

[Eternally Grateful]

Nope, not past tense. Luke 1 calls Mary a virgin AND she said she does not know man.

Show me in Scripture where that is rescinded, and I will join you and your ilk.

He did not know (sexually) his wife UNTIL after her FIRSTBORN was born

But you interpret this some other way.

You can't say I did not prove my point, i did. You just will never believe it, because of how YOU interpret that passage (I should say your church, because you admit you interpret nothing)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nothing in Scripture says she had other children. You say it's "Not true".

Give your evidence instead of your opinion please.

Many people have given you evidence.

You will never believe them, even if they are right.. because You believe your church only..

 

[Marymog]

Actually they started to appose the roman church, because they started to study the word..

Ok EG....lets delve into your opinion.

Some men started to oppose the "roman church because they started to study the word.

After those men started to study the word, they denied long held teachings and came up with their own teachings........DOZENS of different teachings.

So now we have the teachings of The Church, the teachings of Luther, Zwingli, Wycliff, Huss, Calvin etc. etc.! They all disagreed with each other, sometimes agreed with The Church and told anyone that disagreed with THEM that they were wrong.

So EG......Which one of those dozens of men got it right? Clearly you don't think The Church interpreted Scripture properly. So WHO, in your humble opinion got the Word of God right? Scripture said that the word of God is the TRUTH...which man got the TRUTH right?

Curious Mary

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ok EG....lets delve into your opinion.

Some men started to oppose the "roman church because they started to study the word.

After those men started to study the word, they denied long held teachings and came up with their own teachings........DOZENS of different teachings.

So now we have the teachings of The Church, the teachings of Luther, Zwingli, Wycliff, Huss, Calvin etc. etc.! They all disagreed with each other, sometimes agreed with The Church and told anyone that disagreed with THEM that they were wrong.

So EG......Which one of those dozens of men got it right? Clearly you don't think The Church interpreted Scripture properly. So WHO, in your humble opinion got the Word of God right? Scripture said that the word of God is the TRUTH...which man got the TRUTH right?

Curious Mary

2 Timothy 2:15
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

it does not tell me to be diligent to listen to men, or a church or an organization.

It says to be diligent to rightly divide the word of God.

4 people can look at a passage and can come up with 4 interpretations.

it is not my job to determine who is right or wrong. It is to test each spirit to see what the word says.

The jews followed the high priest. Who it considered the man of God. The high priest followed history. and used the same excuses you use.

Yet these same jews crucified christ, Because Christ protested the church of Israel

 

[Marymog]

Many people have given you evidence.

You will never believe them, even if they are right.. because You believe your church only..

Yes, many on this forum have repeated the words and opinions of other Protestant men. You are ok with that. But when we repeat the words and opinions of The Church, you are not ok with that. Weird!

Using Scripture, linguistics and Christian history I and others on here have shown them AND YOU how they/you are wrong.

With that said give me your best evidence, just one fact, that Mary had other children and let's see if I can debunk it.

DEAL?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

it does not tell me to be diligent to listen to men, or a church or an organization.

You should read all of Scripture instead of the parts that fit what YOU believe:

Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”

Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.
Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

But I get it...YOU know better than everyone else.

 

[dev553344]

It's lazy, prideful, and dishonest.

Ridiculous! Using an already good and accepted interpretation is perfectly acceptable. The lie that Mary is a perpetual virgin when she was married to Joseph is a Catholic fabrication. They began praising Mary when one of their members suggested praying to Mary to win wars that the Catholics were involved in. I've read the history of it all. The idea of Mary being a virgin even though she was married to Joseph came from Catholic "revelations".

I would be just as correct in saying that Mary was a perpetual virgin as I would saying the Mormons are right that they will be married in heaven. Both revelations created by their respective members at one point in time.

 

[Marymog]

He did not know (sexually) his wife UNTIL after her FIRSTBORN was born

But you interpret this some other way.

You can't say I did not prove my point, i did. You just will never believe it, because of how YOU interpret that passage (I should say your church, because you admit you interpret nothing)

Dear EG,

Yes, I can say that you didn't prove your point. Your Protestant teaching has been debunked and you are regurgitating a 500-year-old teaching. It's nothing new.

Scripture’s statement that Joseph “knew [Mary] not until she brought forth her firstborn” would not necessarily mean they did “know” each other after He was born. Until is often used in Scripture as part of an idiomatic expression similar to our own usage in English. I may say to you, “Until we meet again, God bless you.” Does that necessarily mean after we meet again, God curse you? A phrase like this is used to emphasize what is being described before the until is fulfilled. It is not intended to say anything about the future beyond that point. Here are some biblical examples:

• 2 Samuel 6:23: And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to (until) the day of her death. (Does this mean she had children after she died?)
• 1 Timothy 4:13: Until I come, attend to the public reading of scripture, to preaching, to teaching. (Does this mean Timothy should stop teaching after Paul comes?)
• 1 Corinthians 15:25: For he (Christ) must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (Does this mean Christ’s reign will end? By no means! Luke 1:33 says, “he will reign over the house of Jacob forever and of his kingdom there shall be no end.”)

Mary was perplexed by the angel's statement that she was going to give birth to Gods son. She said how can that be for I do not know man. If she planned on having sex with Joseph, whom she was already espoused to, she would have assumed that Joseph was going to be the father and never said that. But she had no plans to have sex. She had plans to stay a virgin. If you knew your own Christian history and looked at that passage objectively......You would know that. but you are not objective and you don't know your own Christian history (Proto of James).

You know PROTESTANT history very well....but you don't know Christian history.

NOTICE how you gave your opinion, and I gave multiple passages from Scripture and Christian history to debunk you?


Keeping it real with Scripture and history........Mary

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, many on this forum have repeated the words and opinions of other Protestant men. You are ok with that. But when we repeat the words and opinions of The Church, you are not ok with that. Weird!

Because I do not follow men, like you do

Just because something I say may be the same as others does not mean I follow them

You on the other hand make it clear. You follow your church.

Using Scripture, linguistics and Christian history I and others on here have shown them AND YOU how they/you are wrong.

With that said give me your best evidence, just one fact, that Mary had other children and let's see if I can debunk it.

DEAL?

Mary

You have not proven anything, Only that at best you MAY be right (cousin vs brother as an example)

The Jew followed Scripture; linguistics and history, yet the crucified Christ, why?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You should read all of Scripture instead of the parts that fit what YOU believe:

Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”

Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.
Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

But I get it...YOU know better than everyone else.

I will not listen to elders who do not follow the word of God. and I am not to blindly follow anyone

again, the jews did this,, and crucified Christ.

See how your church has imprisoned you?

 

[Marymog]

2 Timothy 2:15
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2Timothy is a pastoral letter from Paul to his student, Timothy.

Now that I have taught you that FACT here is what that passage would look like IN CONTEXT in modern form:

Dear Timothy my son.

Be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. 3 You therefore must endure hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Your teacher, Paul

Can you now see that this letter does not pertain to YOU?

Keeping it real with the facts.....Mary

 

[Marymog]

I will not listen to elders who do not follow the word of God. and I am not to blindly follow anyone

Let's be honest with each other EG.

You don't listen to anyone but yourself!!

If you want to throw away passages from Scripture that don't fit what you believe, then that is on YOU. I don't recommend you do it....but hey, to each their own!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Dear EG,

Yes, I can say that you didn't prove your point. Your Protestant teaching has been debunked and you are regurgitating a 500-year-old teaching. It's nothing new.

Scripture’s statement that Joseph “knew [Mary] not until she brought forth her firstborn” would not necessarily mean they did “know” each other after He was born. Until is often used in Scripture as part of an idiomatic expression similar to our own usage in English. I may say to you, “Until we meet again, God bless you.” Does that necessarily mean after we meet again, God curse you? A phrase like this is used to emphasize what is being described before the until is fulfilled. It is not intended to say anything about the future beyond that point. Here are some biblical examples:

• 2 Samuel 6:23: And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to (until) the day of her death. (Does this mean she had children after she died?)
• 1 Timothy 4:13: Until I come, attend to the public reading of scripture, to preaching, to teaching. (Does this mean Timothy should stop teaching after Paul comes?)
• 1 Corinthians 15:25: For he (Christ) must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (Does this mean Christ’s reign will end? By no means! Luke 1:33 says, “he will reign over the house of Jacob forever and of his kingdom there shall be no end.”)

Mary was perplexed by the angel's statement that she was going to give birth to Gods son. She said how can that be for I do not know man. If she planned on having sex with Joseph, whom she was already espoused to, she would have assumed that Joseph was going to be the father and never said that. But she had no plans to have sex. She had plans to stay a virgin. If you knew your own Christian history and looked at that passage objectively......You would know that. but you are not objective and you don't know your own Christian history (Proto of James).

You know PROTESTANT history very well....but you don't know Christian history.

NOTICE how you gave your opinion, and I gave multiple passages from Scripture and Christian history to debunk you?


Keeping it real with Scripture and history........Mary

So you gave me your opinion. and I gave you mine

But its ok if you give me yours??


2 samual does not work. It says until she died.

mary did not die. she lived long after her husband passed. So saying he did not have sex with her UNTIL the birth of her firstborn is not saying the same as until after she died

1 timothy also does not fit.. He is telling Timothy to not stop teaching until he comes. But to continue to teach..

the last one does not fit either.

But again, You will not listen to anyone but your church.. so you will never see.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

2Timothy is a pastoral letter from Paul to his student, Timothy.

Now that I have taught you that FACT here is what that passage would look like IN CONTEXT in modern form:

Dear Timothy my son.

Be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. 3 You therefore must endure hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Your teacher, Paul

Can you now see that this letter does not pertain to YOU?

Keeping it real with the facts.....Mary

so we are not to properly divide the word of truth?
I should blindly follow men?

Nice try. But God did not tell me to do this. He would never tell us to do that.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Let's be honest with each other EG.

You don't listen to anyone but yourself!!

If you want to throw away passages from Scripture that don't fit what you believe, then that is on YOU. I don't recommend you do it....but hey, to each their own!

I listen to many people

But I test what they say

But you have the normal catholic answer.

Notice how I asked you multiple times why the jews did what you say I must do and crucified christ.

It is typical of you. when you have to answer something that may appose you if you answer honestly. you ignore it..

Thats on you..

 

[Marymog]

So you gave me your opinion. and I gave you mine

NOPE....I didn't give you my opinion. I gave you passages from Scripture that put "until" in perspective. I gave you Christian history. I dissected the conversation between Mary and the angel to show how your opinion does not match up with Scripture. I hit you with 3 FACTS that you have yet to prove wrong.

YES, you did give me your opinion. Thank you for that.

 

[Marymog]

so we are not to properly divide the word of truth?
I should blindly follow men?

Nice try. But God did not tell me to do this. He would never tell us to do that.

Ok...you are right. That letter to Timothy was meant for YOU.

No, we are not to blindly follow men. Read the passages from Scripture that I quoted. I never said and Scripture never says, "blindly follow men". It does say men twist Scripture to their own destruction.

I get it EG. You have to much pride to obey your elders. That's fine. It does not effect my life.

BTW...Who are your elders?

 

[Marymog]

I listen to many people

But I test what they say

I know....that is why YOU will always be right and everyone else will ALWAYS be wrong.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ok...you are right. That letter to Timothy was meant for YOU.

No, we are not to blindly follow men. Read the passages from Scripture that I quoted. I never said and Scripture never says, "blindly follow men". It does say men twist Scripture to their own destruction.

I get it EG. You have to much pride to obey your elders. That's fine. It does not effect my life.

BTW...Who are your elders?

yet you blindly follow men.

I have many elders who I follow. i do not agree with everything they say.. Then again, i do not blindly follow them we are in 100% agreement on the gospel.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I know....that is why YOU will always be right and everyone else will ALWAYS be wrong.

Nope. i never said I was always right.

why would i tell people to blindly follow me when i will never blindly follow them

They should test what i say as i test what they say.

Again, you have failed to answer my question why? Does it scare you?