I'm a non-Christian, where can I post?

[Ferris Bueller]

We don’t follow the Catholic Church, and we don’t follow the Apostles.

That's good that you don't follow an organization, but didn't you say the book of Revelation is also part of the canon of scripture for you?

"14The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Revelation 21:14
​

The apostles and their ministries are pretty foundational to the plan of God. I don't think the metaphor is inaccurate in any way. What they had to say is trustworthy.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It seems that you may have forgotten these passages:

Hebrews 5:9-10
and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 6:19-20
We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

No ordination necessary, just a personal relationship with the Saviour Jesus the Christ.

He knows about them. He has said he simply rejects them. He rejects the Apostle's letters. Only the Gospels are the gospel truth (and I think Revelation).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Astral Projection is Astral Projection.

The Projection of the Astral Body by Muldoon and Carrington is a book explaining it.

@Edward Gordon , could you explain where you go and why?

The danger of this occult practice, besides the obvious fact that it's demonic, is not being able to get back in the body, as what almost happened to a particular adherent to this practice, and it terrified him. And it should.

My sister was into these kinds of spiritual beliefs. She just died, suddenly, and it bothers me that she is in some level of torment right now. But it is what it is. I have to accept that.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Protestants have 66 books in our Bible - Catholic and Orthodox have a few more - the Tewahedo Christians have even more - some of which have not ever been translated into English.

But 4 Gospels plus Revelation, Thomas, Their own Gospel..

C'mon, Man!

Okay, so Revelation is included in their canon of scripture. I guess I remembered correctly.
We will see how true they are to their own canon of scripture.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, but who was the One who actually poured out the Spirit upon them? The answer is in Titus 3:4-7. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly [poured out upon us] through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

So Jesus Christ our Saviour is the one who pours out the Holy Spirit upon every believer. After that believers are baptized in water (see Acts 10).

If it’s important to you to highlight that while the Holy Spirit was received by the laying on of their hands but it was BY the Spirit IN them, that’s good. I assume men know that. But it’s good to remind them of this so they don’t fall into the pride and arrogance of satan.

My real question was why it was assumed water was being spoken of. I don’t think Jesus was commanding about water in the verse. Remember when Paul said, thank goodness I only baptized a few of you? I think there he WAS talking about water.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No, you don't need to join the Church. If you want to talk by e-mail, I look forward to it.

Yes, I will most definitely email you Edward. I think I would very much enjoy talking with you without so much angry chatter to wade through. I think I might help you with some things you have not seen or considered and I’m pretty certain you can help me with some things I have not considered. And of course our Lord will help us to more.

I have to go open my shop soon but I am not feeling extremely well, so I think I will have plenty of time to send an email as I will most likely not have the energy to drag my paintbrushes out!

 

[Truther]

No, because Jesus doesn't command that. In fact, baptism is a bit mysterious from Jesus' teachings. It's not water; it's something else. It seems to be a kind of test in one's life, perhaps even a test that is before them from the day they are born, and one has to go through it. Jesus said in Luke 12:

49. I have come to ignite a fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!
50. But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!


Jesus needed to be baptized by John in the water, because that's how John was doing it. But water baptism is a symbol of something else. The problem I find with it is that one can think it is important in itself and then ignore that real baptism God has for each of our lives.

I'm not opposed to water baptism, at all. It's just that in Veridicanism all atonement and salvation is accomplished through the Veridican Eucharist.


In fact, I do know a great deal about David Koresh and the Branch Davidians. As much as I am on their side, I think David Koresh got it wrong theologically. He applied it wrong. We ALL are to be Christ, not any one man. So, he saw himself as Christ, but he failed to realize that his mission was not that of a new Messiah. Jesus Christ was the Messiah. But all that notwithstanding, there would not be Veridicanism or a Veridican Church had David Koresh and the other 75 Branch Davidians not died at Mount Carmel on April 19, 1993. The Veridican Church is a direct result of the events at Waco, Texas.

We (and by We, I mean those in Christ) better wake up. We better check the oil in our lamps, we better start looking up, because the end is coming. The tribulation is not far off. It's like birth pains, you know? At first they are far apart and then they start coming closer and closer together. The baby's about to be delivered.



Veridicans maintain the entire Holy Bible. All of the extra-Gospel books are necessary for historical understanding and context--and wisdom. So, I have many Bibles. The Veridican Church canonizes only the Gospels, and Revelation. But yeah, I mean, like studying Matthew 24 requires one to also study the book of Daniel for instance.



We don't do any pagan occult practices. All our spiritual practices are in the Gospels. I've been asked not to talk about them by the admin, so I'm not going to. But I would suggest you study up a bit more before swinging so wide.



I'm not a pagan, and I'm not an alien. But because I'm new to the forum, I'm not going to counter-punch on that and talk about what I see in your walk with God. Suffice to say, it's you who chooses to be anonymous and "alien" in this forum. I'm using my full name and identity.



The letter to the Hebrews is a letter from a Jewish Christian to other Jewish Christians to strengthen their faith.



Gotta stop you there...Jesus was clear that we were to do the miracles He did. Granted, we went with science instead of faith, so now our faith is this tiny withered raisin in our soul, so we can barely trust God enough to get us down the freeway safely, but nevertheless, we were supposed to be miracle workers.



Truly, I have no idea what you're saying, my friend. I'm sorry.

I don't throw out Acts. In fact, the Book of Acts, Chapter 5, is very very important to my take on the early apostles, and it convinces me that the Gospels were written to counter the "acts" of the apostles.



I don't reject them at all. And I greatly respect the entire Holy Bible, and I'm not a Jew. And I think you're becoming insulting now.



Acts 2:38 (NIV 1984 ed.)

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

I don't actually like Peter--at all--but this verse is absolutely true. Or, at least, I would say that I absolutely agree with it. In fact, I even think it represents very much what baptism is. "baptized in the name of Jesus Christ." Now, think about that. What does it mean to take on the name of another person?

We don't reject the Bible. We canonize the life and teachings of Jesus Christ ONLY. Because Jesus is our ONLY teacher. We don't throw out the Bible, we positively confess the life and teachings of our only Lord, who is the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

......it convinces me that the Gospels were written to counter the "acts" of the apostles.



WOW!

Jesus gave Peter the keys.

Your doctrine calls Jesus a nincompoop.

 

[Truther]

"Mormons" believe that baptism is done for the remission of sins, in the name of the the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

I know.

They use the titles in the place of the name of Jesus Christ.

They too skip Acts 2:38 like 95% of modern "Christians" today.

By skipping Acts 2:38, the RCC, Mormons, Baptists, AOG , etc , are in an exclusive club of Acts skippers like the OP is.

 

[Truther]

Ten Reasons to be a Veridican (veridicans.org)

If Verdicans skip Acts 2:38, no thanks.

They are just another offshoot of an offshoot of false Christendom.

As a matter of fact, ALL Acts skippers are from the same mold.

 

[Waiting on him]

Ferris seemed to assume a verse he quoted HAD to be talking about water, so I asked why he assumed that. Then Enoch also assumed it had to be water, so I pointed out that some people received the baptism of the Holy Spirit when apostles laid hands on them. When one man saw that, he even offered to give them money if they would lay hands on him. So…I was not so much getting at anything, was just wondering why they assumed it had to be water being spoken of.

Maybe their hands were wet

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I know.

They use the titles in the place of the name of Jesus Christ.

They too skip Acts 2:38 like 95% of modern "Christians" today.

By skipping Acts 2:38, the RCC, Mormons, Baptists, AOG , etc , are in an exclusive club of Acts skippers like the OP is.

I disagree with you there.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Johns Water Baptism was a foreshadow of The Lords Baptism.
Dipping in Water, SAVED, SAVES no one.

I agree.
The sacrament speaks of the matter in spirit. It’s sort of like…the letter, literal versus the spirit of the word.
It’s all very amazing.

 

[lforrest]

That's fine. But it would be interesting to discuss it at some point because both are quite biblical. Astrology is practically mandated in the Gospels, and astral projection is what John was doing in the book of Revelation--even if we call it something else. Nevertheless, I can definitely respect your wishes on that, and if someone wants to discuss it, they need only e-mail me.

If you would like to discuss these biblical occurances where you believe astral projection or Astrology took place that is alright.

I agree the Magi used astrology, however they were foreigners in the land and had foreign practices. They divined that a king was born, who was born king of the Jews. It was unlikely they knew more than this about Jesus, and they likely feared him as a future conqueror.

Revelation 1:1 says God made it known by sending his angel to his servant John. You assume he met this angel through astral projection, however an angel wouldn't need to do that in order to give a vision.

I'm concerned with astral projection you may encounter what others call a spirit guide, which are demons at best. Have you encountered such an entity?

 

[Cassandra]

I agree the Magi used astrology, however they were foreigners in the land and had foreign practices. They divined that a king was born, who was born king of the Jews. It was unlikely they knew more than this about Jesus, and they likely feared him as a future conqueror.

I read somewhere that the Magi had known a king was coming, and were observers of time, They were astrologers, but in that time there was no astronomy, so astronomy and astrology were the same, and probably used this verse as to why they looked for a star.

Numbers 24:17 "I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.

They were familiar with the Jewish belief that a King was coming, and probably knew times from Daniel's writings.

 

[Edward Gordon]

Referring to one of your other posts, I would have never guessed that you would subscribe to a doctrine of election along the lines of Calvin's understanding of that.

I don't. I go with what Jesus said. That's it. If Calvin agreed with that, more power to him.

You brought this up in another post. Let's address this now.
Jesus was very interested in us being aware of other people's sin and calling it out:

"15If your brother sins against you,c go and confront him privately. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’d 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, regard him as you would a pagan or a tax collector." Matthew 18:15-17
​

There is no 'oh, just leave people alone' doctrine in Jesus' teachings.

And, again, I have to point out that the law of Moses was Jesus' teachings. And so this is what Jesus thinks about being concerned about other people's sin:

​

What sin did I commit against you?

Hopefully, as a Christian, you are, ultimately, in this to refute his theology, not endorse it or support it in any way.
When he's right, he's right, I give him that. But ultimately, our duty is to refute the falseness in his teachings.
Surely, the occult practices should have shut you down immediately concerning the validity of Veridican theology.
And all the more as the errors of that theology get exposed right from it's own canon of scripture, the Gospels, as we discuss those errors and shine the light on them.

Gonna start bullying her now? She's not on my side. You don't have to attack her as well.

I haven’t heard anything to refute yet.
I’m hoping he can ignore what needs to be ignored.
I mean, he used the phrase astral projection. But I don’t know what HE means by the phrase. I think I know what YOU think he means but I don’t know what HE means when he says it. All I know is the verse that came to my mind.

I don't really like the term astral projection, and I am willing to alter that term in our Articles of Faith if I find a more accurate one--and one that sounds less new agey--but for now, I don't know what else to call it. There are times when a person seems to leave their body and visits the spiritual realm. It happens in NDEs, trances, dreams, spontaneously, and there's no denying it. It happened to the John who wrote Revelation, and it probably occurred with the disciples during the Transfiguration. It probably also occurred when Jesus performed some of his miracles like walking on water, or transporting the disciples' boat, or calming the storm, or at least there was a type of fusion of the astral realm and physical realm.

Astral is just a term. It means the same as spiritual realm or etheric plane. They all mean the same thing. It's not heaven, but it is between here and heaven. Heaven is INSIDE God, for lack of a better term. Astral is spiritual and OUTSIDE of God. Physical is an illusory plane created by God. It's a kind of artwork wherein souls are grown into Christ--or perish.

If you want Biblical support, I offer up what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 and what John said in Revelation 1:10, and 4:2.

I saw in an earlier post that you see Matthew 24 as being yet futuristic. Is this true?

Well, not that much into the future. Armageddon will be upon us within 30 years. I know that sounds like a long time, but it's really not, given what is about to happen and the establishment of the Kingdom of God. And it could be a lot sooner, I'm studying that now.

Jesus told his disciples not to go in the way of the Gentiles and that He’d only came to the lost of the house of Israel, I can’t understand how it is you state you can only use the gospels for doctrine.

Because we follow ONLY Jesus Christ. So, we build our doctrine from His life and teachings only.

I'm stunned by stunnedbygrace saying she can't see anything to refute.

I wonder if she will capitulate to your bullying tactics?

Protestants have 66 books in our Bible - Catholic and Orthodox have a few more - the Tewahedo Christians have even more - some of which have not ever been translated into English.

But 4 Gospels plus Revelation, Thomas, Their own Gospel..

C'mon, Man!

Why do they get a pass and we don't. You don't make any sense.

"Classic Christians, on the other hand, believe they remain who they are even after they are saved. They form a kind of partnership with Christ, yes; they make Christ their leader, yes, but they always retain who they are. They "never give their soul to Christ the way Veridicans do."

To me, that is condescension to non-Veridicans -- "They never give their soul to Christ the way Veridicans do"

Sorry. Truth hurts.

Welcome!

I don't see where you mentioned the apostle Paul's writings in your canon, which is curious, since he is the only one who outwardly/plainly said "For me to live is Christ." Philippians 1:21 ...Did I miss it?

And the idea of following Jesus, but not those whom He sent out. Hmmm.
Should be interesting.

Inasmuch as they point to Christ, I will hear and heed what they have to say. But they were just men like me. They don't have authority over me.

Edward, you just quoted a serial killer favorably in declaring "I'm good with the Lord," which should bring into question for anyone paying attention here what "Lord" you likely actually serve.

I knew in large part what you were before I even responded to this thread. My responses were simply to confirm it. To continue doing so at this point would be to help you promote your religion, which I can't in good conscience do.

That's good that you don't follow an organization, but didn't you say the book of Revelation is also part of the canon of scripture for you?

"14The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Revelation 21:14
​

The apostles and their ministries are pretty foundational to the plan of God. I don't think the metaphor is inaccurate in any way. What they had to say is trustworthy.

There were 14 apostles. I mean, if you're going to take that verse literally, which you can't, then there were 14. You're not going to act like Matthias and Judas didn't exist are you?

@Edward Gordon

My sister was into these kinds of spiritual beliefs. She just died, suddenly, and it bothers me that she is in some level of torment right now. But it is what it is. I have to accept that.

I'm sorry to hear about your sister, but you don't know what her judgment and disposition was.

Yes, I will most definitely email you Edward. I think I would very much enjoy talking with you without so much angry chatter to wade through. I think I might help you with some things you have not seen or considered and I’m pretty certain you can help me with some things I have not considered. And of course our Lord will help us to more.

Sounds like a winner. I look forward to it.

I have to go open my shop soon but I am not feeling extremely well, so I think I will have plenty of time to send an email as I will most likely not have the energy to drag my paintbrushes out!

If you want a healing prayer, let me know. I've been having some good results lately.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Gonna start bullying her now? She's not on my side. You don't have to attack her as well.

Oh just ignore it. Maybe he will calm down.
I’m more on your side than his.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I don't really like the term astral projection, and I am willing to alter that term in our Articles of Faith if I find a more accurate one--and one that sounds less new agey--but for now, I don't know what else to call it. There are times when a person seems to leave their body and visits the spiritual realm. It happens in NDEs, trances, dreams, spontaneously, and there's no denying it. It happened to the John who wrote Revelation, and it probably occurred with the disciples during the Transfiguration. It probably also occurred when Jesus performed some of his miracles like walking on water, or transporting the disciples' boat, or calming the storm, or at least there was a type of fusion of the astral realm and physical realm.

Ah, very good. I thought that might be along the lines of what you meant.

 

[GaryAnderson]

Edward, so when is the world going to end?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Sounds like a winner. I look forward to it.

I sent earlier! I have to go baptize myself with soap and water and get to the shop. I hope to have a return sent when I arrive there but will be patient. I have recently found TWO brothers I’m eager to speak with more and can’t believe I will be able to leave either of you alone!

 

[Edward Gordon]

If you would like to discuss these biblical occurances where you believe astral projection or Astrology took place that is alright.

I agree the Magi used astrology, however they were foreigners in the land and had foreign practices.

Yep, and that's us. Veridicans. That's exactly how we see ourselves in relation to World Christendom. That hits it right on the head.

They divined that a king was born, who was born king of the Jews. It was unlikely they knew more than this about Jesus, and they likely feared him as a future conqueror.

Okay. That's speculation, but okay. I look at it more like they divined his birth, they traveled to where he would be born. They gave him expensive gifts and they were priests not kings, so I think they recognized his spiritual significance. But whatever...they protected him from Herod, and God used them.

Revelation 1:1 says God made it known by sending his angel to his servant John. You assume he met this angel through astral projection, however an angel wouldn't need to do that in order to give a vision.

I agree, but I was thinking more of Revelation 1:10, and also 2 Corinthians 12:2, and Revelation 4:2.

I'm concerned with astral projection you may encounter what others call a spirit guide, which are demons at best. Have you encountered such an entity?

Oh, God yes. The place is riddled with demons. I will grant that that our angels are there are as well, and we know them when we see them, but I will also grant that astral projection done outside of the grace and protection of the Holy Spirit and the discernment of Christ is just throwing people to the demons. Think of Dr. Chilton in "Silence of the Lambs." (This town can be quite fun--if you have the right guide.) There are so many demons. They feast on humanity. On the other hand, the kingdom of God is on the astral plane as well, and God meets us there in many forms that he takes on, and we can walk with him there, and sometimes enter heaven for a bit. But then we have to come back here. And that's besetting.