Imminent.

[rockytopva]

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. - 2 Peter 3:15-16


And I tell you brother Peter, no one can wrest scripture like the post trib folk!

 

[ATP]

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. - 2 Peter 3:15-16


And I tell you brother Peter, no one can wrest scripture like the post trib folk!

Why live in fantasy when reality is right here rocky....

Matt 24:29-31 NIV “Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ 30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

 

[blessedhope]

There is rock solid proof that the church is heaven before the tribulation, That is the 24 elders!> but you say so what!!> if youk now and read your bible only the church {bride of Christ are promised crowns in Heaven} not angles or anyone else. And

The 5 types of crowns for believers in heaven
The 5 types of crowns are: –

1. Crown of righteousness
2. Incorruptible crown
3. Crown of life
4. Crown of glory
5. Crown of rejoicing

 

[ATP]

There is rock solid proof that the church is heaven before the tribulation, That is the 24 elders!> but you say so what!!> if youk now and read your bible only the church {bride of Christ are promised crowns in Heaven} not angles or anyone else. And
The 5 types of crowns for believers in heaven
The 5 types of crowns are: –

1. Crown of righteousness
2. Incorruptible crown
3. Crown of life
4. Crown of glory
5. Crown of rejoicing

Well, you got your facts right, but you have no timing. The Bema Seat occurs after the distress of those days...

Matt 24:29-31 NIV “Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ 30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

 

[blessedhope]

And The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne

 

[ATP]

.

 

[blessedhope]

No! As we read the bible like a book and that's how as a whole it should be read!, It has a start and an end! We don't start in revelations and finish in Genesis so this is Revelations chapter 4 we have the church and our crowns but the anti_christ does not show up until the seals are broken in chapter 6 , so some one has the timing wrong and its not me! And



Revelation 6King James Version (KJV)
6 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

 

[ATP]

No! As we read the bible like a book and that's how as a whole it should be read!, It has a start and an end! We don't start in revelations and finish in Genesis so this is Revelations chapter 4 we have the church and our crowns but the ant_christ does not show up until the seals are broken in chapter 6 , so some one has the timing wrong and its not me! And



Revelation 6King James Version (KJV)
6 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

John was given a vision of the future 70th week in Rev 6-16. Do you understand what a vision is bhope?

Rev 4:1 NIV After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”

 

[blessedhope]

So as I read Revelations 4 the Bride of Christ is in heaven and in chapter 6 the anti_christ is let loose!> so yes I would say there is a pre_trib rapture of the church before Jacobs troubles Enjoy

 

[ATP]

So as I read Revelations 4 the Bride of Christ is in heaven and in chapter 6 the anti_christ is let loose!> so yes I would say there is a pre_trib rapture of the church before Jacobs troubles Enjoy

Uh no bhope. Christ has been in heaven for 2,000 years giving visions to his disciples on earth. Again, do you know what a vision is?

 

[blessedhope]

ATP> your disgusting if I read your thread right that some how the bible got it wrong >BUT YOU GOT IT RIGHT!

 

[blessedhope]

GoodBye I think I have had talking to you for Now.

 

[ATP]

Whether you're pinning the 24 elders as the church or not, your false theory doesn't stand......

Rev 4:4 NIV Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.

Rev 7:9 NIV After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

 

[blessedhope]

Your about as dumb as a skunk trying to prove your lusts!> did they have crowns ?>No as I said Rev is a book and it moves on to the end!

 

[ATP]

Your about as dumb as a skunk trying to prove your lusts!> did they have crowns ?>No as I said Rev is a book and it moves on to the end!

Well, considering the fact that you have no idea what a vision is I wouldn't be telling others they're dumb.

How can the church that is dressed in white robes be in Rev 4 and Rev 7 at the same time bhope? opcorn:

 

[ATP]

Bhope, do you like to read?

Prewrath Rapture of the Church by Marvin Rosenthal
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/proph/prewra01.JPG

1. Antichrist signs peace treaty with Israel to begin the 70th week Isa 28:15 NIV, Isa 28:18 NIV, Isa 57:8-9 NIV, Dan 9:27 NIV, Rev 6:2 NIV, Rev 6:8 NIV.
2. The third temple (the holy place) is built Exo 26:33 NIV, Ez 40-48 NIV, Dan 9:27 NIV, 2 Thess 2:3-4 NIV..http://thewordonpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Ezekiels-Temple-Logos.png
3. The first 3.5 years are birth pains, the first four seals are open along with apostasy of Jews Dan 11:36-45 NIV, Matt 24:4-7, 2 Thess 2:3 NIV, Rev 6:1-8 NIV.
4. At the middle of the 70th week the abomination of desolation takes place in the holy place Exo 26:33 NIV, Dan 9:27 NIV, Dan 11:31 NIV, Dan 12:11 NIV, Matt 24:15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:3-4 NIV, Rev 13:14-15 NIV.
5. Michael the angel, the restrainer is removed here Dan 12:1 NIV, 2 Thess 2:6-12 NIV, Rev 12:6-12 NIV.
6. Immediately after the abomination of desolation the fifth seal is open and the Great Tribulation begins, man's rebellion against God Rev 6:9-11 NIV.
7. This is right around where the two witnesses make their appearance and prophesy for 1,260 days Mal 4:5 NIV, Rev 11:2-3 NIV.
8. The last 3.5 years of the 70th week now begins.
9. Then the Great Tribulation is cut short around the middle of the last 3.5 years Matt 24:22 NIV.
10. Immediately after the Great Tribulation ends cosmic disturbances occur before the Day of the Lord begins.
11. The 144,000 are then sealed before the rapture, so they can enter the Day of the Lord without harm Rev 7:2-4 NIV.
12. The rapture occurs at the seventh seal, after the Great Tribulation and at the beginning of the Day of the Lord Matt 25:31-46 NIV, Rev 7:14 NIV, Rev 8:1-5 NIV.
13. The Bema Seat of Christ is here Matt 16:27 NIV, Luke 14:14-15 NIV, 2 Cor 5:10 NIV, Rev 19:8-9 NIV, Rev 22:12 NIV.
14. The Feast/Marriage Supper of the Lamb is also here Luke 14:14-15 NIV, Rev 7:9 NIV, Rev 19:1 NIV, Rev 19:9 NIV.
15. Then begins the Day of the Lord, the start of God's wrath of trumpets. The 5th trumpet will also last five months Rev 9:5 NIV.
16. At the end of the 70th week the beast will kill the two witnesses, but after 3.5 days they will come alive Rev 11:7-12 NIV.
17. Very few people will be left after the 70th week is complete Zech 13:8-9 NIV.
18. Jesus Christ landing on the Mount of Olives is here Zech 9:14-17 NIV, Zech 10:1-12 NIV, Zech 12:10-14 NIV, Zech 14:4 NIV, Mal 3:2-4 NIV, Matt 25:31-46 NIV, Rom 11:26-27 NIV, Jude 1:14-15 NIV, Rev 19:11-21 NIV.
19. After the 70th week is complete the bowl judgments begin for 30 days Dan 12:11 NIV, Zech 12:10-14 NIV.
20. Then the 45 days begin for cleansing of the Temple Dan 12:12 NIV, Zech 13:1-6 NIV.
21. After the 45 days are finished the 1,000 year millennium begins Rev 20:4-6 NIV.
22. Nonbelievers will also be a part of the 1,000 year millennium Zech 14:16-19 NIV.
23. After the 1,000 years are finished, the dead believers and nonbelievers that are left over will be judged Rev 20:11-15 NIV.
24. Then a New Heaven and a New Earth will appear making everything new Rev 21:1-8 NIV.
25. Lastly, Eden is restored in which we now live with Jesus Christ forever and ever. Amen Rev 22:1-5 NIV.

Side Note 1: The full seven years are never called "the tribulation period", rather the 70th week is the proper name to describe the seven years.

Side Note 2: The Great Tribulation and the Day of the Lord are not the same event. The GT is man's rebellion against God, and the Day of the Lord is God's wrath against man. These two events are split in half in the last 3.5 years of the 70th week. The church will have to go through the first five seals and also the GT, but they will be raptured before the Day of the Lord begins, God's wrath of trumpets and bowls. The church will witness the signing of the peace treaty, the third temple built, the first four seals opening, the abomination of desolation, the two witnesses, the fifth seal opening, the GT of man's rebellion and the sixth seal of cosmic disturbances in the sun, moon and stars before they are raptured.

 

[ATP]

Your about as dumb as a skunk trying to prove your lusts!> did they have crowns ?>No as I said Rev is a book and it moves on to the end!

I don't think saints are going to be living in lust in the 70th week bhope. Saints will have to endure persecution first before rapture. The "end" refers to the harvest/rapture...

Matt 24:13-14 NIV but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

..and also saints do not remain in lust because of progressive sanctification and God disciplining His children...Job 10:14 NIV, Job 36:8-10 NIV, Psa 118:18 NIV, Heb 12:4-13 NIV.

- ATP

 

[ATP]

but the anti_christ does not show up until the seals are broken in chapter 6 , so some one has the timing wrong and its not me! And





Revelation 6King James Version (KJV)
6 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

The antichrist signs the peace treaty in Rev 6:1 NIV. When he conquers he is going to deceive nonbelievers into thinking he is God. This will start the 70th week in Dan 9:27 NIV.

 

[rockytopva]

If I had to pick an end time date I would go with the scientist, Isaac Newton...

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christs coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However Isaac Newton notes

It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

Before Christ comes the Anti-Christ must be revealed and there must be a great falling away...

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2:3

Who....

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. - Revelation 13:16-18

The Anti-Christ could be revealed any day, fulfilling the prophecies for the day of the Lord, in which we call the rapture. Though I do not believe that I will experience this event in my lifetime, yet I treat it as an imminent event that could happen in my lifetime. I therefore live my life as though it could happen today, even though it may not.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

I take a literal approach. This does not attempt to make points of figurative speech that do occur in prophecy in a literal manner.

Ok, so you believe Jesus literally has seven eyes and seven horns? You believe Jesus literally vomits double edged swords to strike down the nations? You believer there are literally 10,000 x 10,000 angels circling the throne (not one more or one less?)? You believe there will be a literal dragon that walks around on the earth and that he calls literal beasts out of the ocean and land to do his bidding? I just want to make sure you are literally being literal here. The fact is, everyone takes Revelation figuratively, the question is to what extent. So lets not make this sound like one group doesnt take the Bible seriously and the other does.

What we have here - is a failure to communicate.

I don't know how to be more "clear" than saying that taking a literal approach doesn't mean I cannot adjust my interpretation to account for figurative speech.

You then pepper me with silly questions which are not serious so as to portray a literal approach as infantile, simple, and even comical.

No, everybody does not take Revelation figuratively.

And I didn't say you didn't take that book seriously - but you're not taking my viewpoint seriously either.

I'll get back to your other points after I take the truck into the dealership for new ball joints and an alignment.

(And by the way, if you have a problem with people calling your view willfully ignorant, take it up with them. As far as satanic and heretical, no you didn't say that, but "dangerous" fits in with those types of classifications my viewpoint has been called by holy rollers on message boards over the years.)

(I am continually amazed by the wide range of opinions that can exist on the Bible which allows fools and kooks to weigh in with equal footing, and how vicious Christians can be towards each other over serious differences in how they compare legitimate approaches to interpretation.)