In regard to what Jesus said to Peter, it appears that the Apostle John's presumption is in error.

[L.A.M.B.]

@The Third One

Visit this thread, participate or peruse it, up to you.
Along the same line as what you are discussing except I agree with @Bible Highlighter

 

[ScottA]

Should have been a blog. Sorry for the repeats.

Yes, you were rambling, ranting.

You also have the wrong guy. Paul was not the anti-Christ, just another nearly hopeless fellow Jesus chose to carry perhaps the harder burden than Peter--that of the gentiles; which was not one nation through the desert or the mop up of Israel, but every nation throughout the entire world. Meanwhile, it was both Peter and Paul who foretold what it is that you have now come onto, which was "false teachers" entering the church, the believing of a "lie", "strong delusion" and a "falling away" of "great apostacy." And he too preached against returning to "the beggarly elements", quite literally against the law.

The outcome of your thesis is correct, but again: You got the wrong guy. The works you have described are not the works of Paul, but are "according to the working of Satan" of which he also warned.

However--don't take it personal--or you will be allowing Satan a scapegoat.​

Rather, let us all understand that the warnings of Jesus, and Peter, and even Paul, were and are real. That during these times that were also to be a time of being "lead unto all truth"--we have had a very real problem of being lied to, and that it has been believed and has now been taught for 2,000 years. However, we should know better than to blame those who tried (even poorly) to carry the water of the gospel. I mean, my God--Jesus, just as Moses had done for Israel, and God before Adam and Eve--set before the church "life and death"--that is: "flesh and blood" and the "Father" and told them what He was "not" building His church upon--and they chose instead "flesh and blood." And we followed!

However, before going on to "all truth", let us also understand that these things were to come--that Jesus actually arranged it--not that any and everyone of us should not do just as you have outlined according to the gospel of Christ--because we should, and this should continue to be your message. But Jesus purposely did not leave us "peace, but a sword." And it is important now that we understand why--that had He not, and had He not allowed Satan to do his work among the gentiles for all this time, and had He not restrained--these many generations of gentiles would not have been born.

Rise, let us be going!

 

[The Learner]

Jesus Talks to Peter
15 When they finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these other men love me?”

Peter answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”

Then Jesus said to him, “Take care of my lambs.[c]”

16 Again Jesus said to him, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?”

Peter answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”

Then Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”

17 A third time Jesus said, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?”

Peter was sad because Jesus asked him three times, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know everything. You know that I love you!”

Jesus said to him, “Take care of my sheep. 18 The truth is, when you were young, you tied your own belt and went where you wanted. But when you are old, you will put out your hands, and someone else will tie your belt. They will lead you where you don’t want to go.” 19 (Jesus said this to show how Peter would die to give glory to God.) Then he said to Peter, “Follow me!”

20 Peter turned and saw the follower Jesus loved very much walking behind them. (This was the follower who had leaned against Jesus at the supper and said, “Lord, who is it that will hand you over?”) 21 When Peter saw him behind them, he asked Jesus, “Lord, what about him?”

22 Jesus answered, “Maybe I want him to live until I come. That should not matter to you. You follow me!”

23 So a story spread among the followers of Jesus. They were saying that this follower would not die. But Jesus did not say he would not die. He only said, “Maybe I want him to live until I come. That should not matter to you.”

24 That follower is the one who is telling these things. He is the one who has now written them all down. We know that what he says is true.

25 There are many other things that Jesus did. If every one of them were written down, I think the whole world would not be big enough for all the books that would be written.

 

[The Learner]

"
Then both Peter and Paul were led away from the presence of Nero. And Paul was beheaded on the Ostesian road.

And Peter, having come to the cross, said: Since my Lord Jesus Christ, who came down from the heaven upon the earth, was raised upon the cross upright, and He has deigned to call to heaven me, who am of the earth, my cross ought to be fixed head down most, so as to direct my feet towards heaven; for I am not worthy to be crucified like my Lord. Then, having reversed the cross, they nailed his feet up.

And the multitude was assembled reviling Cæsar, and wishing to kill him. But Peter restrained them, saying: A few days ago, being exhorted by the brethren, I was going away; and my Lord Jesus Christ met me, and having adored Him, I said, Lord, whither are You going? And He said to me, I am going to Rome to be crucified. And I said to Him, Lord, were You not crucified once for all? And the Lord answering, said, I saw you fleeing from death, and I wish to be crucified instead of you. And I said, Lord, I go; I fulfil Your command. And He said to me, Fear not, for I am with you. On this account, then, children, do not hinder my going; for already my feet are going on the road to heaven. Do not grieve, therefore, but rather rejoice with me, for today I receive the fruit of my labours. And thus speaking, he said: I thank You, good Shepherd, that the sheep which You have entrusted to me, sympathize with me; I ask, then, that with me they may have a part in Your kingdom. And having thus spoken, he gave up the ghost."
CHURCH FATHERS: The Acts of Peter and Paul

 

[The Learner]

Note last post Paul and Peter were taken together.

Acts 21:11
He came to us and borrowed Paul’s belt. He used it to tie his own hands and feet. He said, “The Holy Spirit tells me, ‘This is how the Jews in Jerusalem will tie up the man who wears this belt. Then they will hand him over to people who don’t know God.’”

They tied Jesus.

Matthew 27:2
They tied him, led him away, and handed him over to Pilate, the governor.

Mark 15:1
Governor Pilate Questions Jesus
Very early in the morning, the leading priests, the older Jewish leaders, the teachers of the law, and the whole high council decided what to do with Jesus. They tied him, led him away, and handed him over to Governor Pilate.

John 18:12
Jesus Is Brought Before Annas
Then the soldiers with their commander and the Jewish guards arrested Jesus. They tied him

John 18:24
So Annas sent Jesus to Caiaphas the high priest. He was still tied.

Hebrews 11:36
Some were laughed at and beaten. Others were tied up and put in prison.

Since Peter and Paul were taken together, Paul was tied up, as was Jesus, it is only reasonable that Peter would be tied up too. John outlived the other apolstles, it makes sense that he would know details not given in the Gospels.

 

[The Third One]

Hi @face2face,

Now, we’re talking. (Literally)

You state, “I’m not certain what you are making of this word ‘Gird.’”

Okay. Let’s try this again. In his Good-Bye Speech, Jesus specifically warns Peter that “Another will gird you.” Basically, to gird one’s self is to transform a tunic into a diaper around your hips. It allows mobility for hard labor (you can find the full details of this process on my second post in this thread).

We have indisputably established that Jesus is certainly NOT warning Peter about one of the Roman “Nailers” (at Pete’s crucifixion site) — some party to the execution squad, who will take the time and courtesy to gird Peter’s tunic around Peter’s loins, so that Peter can look presentable... before they slaughter him to death. Quite impossible. Why? Because, by order of the Roman Crucifixion Handbook, condemned men are ALWAYS crucified entirely naked.

Thus, the problem with YOUR theory:

You need to account for WHOM Jesus means by “ANOTHER.” Yet, even more perplexing, why on earth would ANOTHER person be girding Peter?

Actually, not so perplexing at all. There is one (and only one) reason why any living man (man 1) would be girded by ANOTHER man (man 2). Only if man 1 is a SLAVE, being prepared for hard labor by his MASTER, man 2.

Jesus warns Peter, “You will extend you hands.”

John mistakenly assumes, this means, “hands extended” out to Peter’s left and right. As in crucifixion. That is one of the big reasons John assumes that this is Jesus’ way of “Signifying by what death (crucifixion) Peter should glorify God” (John 21:19). Oops. John overlooked the, “ANOTHER will GIRD you” part — which completely rules out the idea that Jesus is talking about Peter’s death by crucifixion.

Yes, Jesus warns Peter that Peter will extend his hands outward. (Re-picture that image.) Extended out IN FRONT of Peter. Jesus is telling Peter what the future holds for him — that Peter will be led off as a slave... by ANOTHER... who “will gird you, and carry you where you do not want to go.” Not to martyrdom.

To slavery. Where no one wants to go.

This is nowhere near as complicated as you are trying to make it out to be. Concentrate on Jesus’ Good-Bye speech in its entirety. You are disagreeing, without considering what comes earlier in the speech. Jesus — reminding Peter of his FREEDOM.

Real FREEDOM — that Peter is destined to willingly trade off... for slavery.

EVERY BIT OF THIS is contained within the Good-Bye speech. And, THAT is what you need to address. But, first, take your time to reexamine the entire Good-Bye speech. Even THAT will do you no good unless you get your head out of the Box. Try your best to read it without the Church whispering in your ear. You have been Church-Taught HOW you are supposed to interpret these verses. Get your head out of the Box, and reexamine it... from every angle.

You write, “Peter being prepared to die… is actually false, because he denied his Lord three times.” I guess you must have forgotten what you, yourself wrote, only two sentences prior, “Peter was now fully aware how he would die, compare 2 Peter 1:14.”

Peter’s past “three times denial” is high octane gasoline for his present martyr fire: “I’ll never let THAT happen again!”

AND: “I’LL show ’em just how well I can die!”

 

[The Third One]

You are actually providing more proof, proving the Holy Spirit’s point. I thank you for it, and the Holy Spirit thanks you for it as well. “Being an alpha male” and a “natural born leader,” Peter was totally gung-ho about offing himself fer the cause. Not only was Peter prepared to die; moreover, as YOU say, he was “fully aware HOW he would die.” Face the facts. Peter WANTED to die... a martyr’s death — specifically, by crucifixion.

The Holy Spirit confirms it. “To crucifixion is EXACTLY where Peter wanted to go.”

Ahhh, grasshopper; but, in his Good-Bye speech to Peter, Jesus is talking about where Peter “DOES NOT want to go.”

Even the Catholic Church confirms it (lol)… and, holy folklore, Batman... if anyone knows our man Pete, it certainly should be the Catholic Church. Right? They even made him the first Pope. Posthumously, of course. But, then again, that’s the whole point, here. Peter DYIN’ fer the cause. As Catholic Rumor has it, Pete even instructed the Romans to “do” him upside down. (Oops.) Which became THE most... foremost… Satanic symbol (yep, an upside down cross). Would you like to just concede the point already, on THAT note? Point being, that Jesus (in his farewell speech) is certainly NOT talking about (nor is he encouraging) Peter’s crucifixion.

You are reaching for straws by trying to construe “Peter surrendering his will in humility” and his “will” “need(ing) to be broken.” Hogwash. You write, “I think you need to understand Peter’s character flaws and his struggle.” I think you need to concentrate on Jesus’ Good-Bye speech.

Jesus practically begs Peter, “Feed my sheep.”

But, alas, Jesus knows. Peter is NOT destined to feed his sheep.

ANOTHER will soon take over.

As for it being, the “Same language as used by Christ in John 12:33; John 18:32.” (LOL) I have no dispute about all the things Jesus said... “signifying”... his OWN death. Rather, I am stating an undisputed fact: that John is incorrect (in his assumption) that what Jesus says to Peter (in his Good-Bye Speech) in ANY way... “SIGNIFFIES”… PETER’S death.

Jesus is NOT talking about Peter’s death in his Good-Bye speech. Jesus is talking about Peter being led off as a slave.

You write, “In relation to who would gird him toward his death, it would obviously be the direction of his Lord and none other.” What are you talking about? GIRD him toward his death??? It is obvious to me that you are struggling with what the word, “gird” means. Go back to the second post. I am not going to repeat all those details for you here again. Whew! You have given me enough work to do as it is (lol). Nice, response, by the way; only much of what you have been taught to say, is incorrect. “The Lord” is not “directing” Peter to his death. The Lord is NOT talking about PETER’S DEATH in his Good-Bye speech. His Good-Bye speech. His Good-Bye speech. Hello? We are talking about Jesus’ Good-Bye speech. Concentrate on that.

You make an excellent point (based upon the incorrect Church-Taught dogma that has been taught to you). You write, “‘Follow Me’ is Peter follow(ing) his Lord even to death, as he had been told before Matthew 16:24.”

That is a huge, universally misconstrued saying of Jesus. “Pick up your cross and follow me.” Do you actually “believe” Jesus is suggesting that we all follow him to crucifixion? There are many Christians who LITERALLY take this literally.

Why not? It is official, In-Da-Box, Church doctrine.

One of the Church’s six most influential Atonement Theories, revolves around the idea that we can only truly be “saved” by dying a martyr’s death. It is called, “The Moral Influence Theory.” Also known as “The Moral Example Theory.” I call it, “The Christian-Kamikaze Pact.” Very much the Radical-Christian version of Jihad, with one loving and caring exception. The Christian-Way to kill-yourself-for-the-cause is to fly your single-pilot airplane (with no passengers on board) into an unoccupied building.

This theory completely dismisses the Savior-aspect, while it exclusively promotes the absolute moral rule of what a “fully-equipped” Church-Pilot thinks it means to “follow the Lord.” It focuses not only on the death of Jesus, but on emulating his entire Life and then, specifically, emulating his death:

We are not saved by what’s been done for us on the cross; but, rather, we gain Atonement through Justification by diligently following the complete moral example of Christ — the crucifixion itself, being Christ’s ultimate moral example for us. Christ showed us how we should die (in martyrdom) for the cause. “The cause” being morality itself and, Jesus, being our first martyr. Therefore, the only way you can complete your life as a true Christian is to figure out a selfless way to suffer and die as a martyr. You see, brothers and sisters, it is not enough to just become a tithe-offering member of the Body of Christ AND... a slave to all of our dos and don’ts. You must ALSO... suffer and die a martyr’s death.

If only we had more Christians like this, we’d have less Christians like this.

Hopefully, there is no one in OUR generation, who still thinks that Jesus is being “Real” about us picking up our own patibulum and, literally, following him to death by crucifixion (or by any other means). The cross was Jesus’ Mission. The cross was Jesus’ vocation. The cross was Jesus’ purpose. The cross was Jesus’ objective. Jesus said, “Pick up YOUR cross and follow me.” Get it? Pick up YOUR mission, YOUR vocation, YOUR purpose, YOUR objective and follow him.

 

[The Third One]

Team Light does not need martyrs. Humanity’s RANSOM is already paid-in-full.

Yet, face2face, HERE is where WE (you and I) are in TOTAL agreement. You are absolutely correct. The idea of “follow me...” TO DEATH... is exactly what both Peter and John assumed Jesus meant by “Pick up your cross and follow me.” Same wrong assumption they gathered from Jesus’ Good-Bye speech. TO Peter’s DEATH is NOT what Jesus is talking about in his Good-Bye speech. You are in good company, my friend. You and John and Peter are ALL forgetting what Jesus ALSO said in his exact same Good-Bye speech.

“YOU FEED MY SHEEP.”

We need to put every sentence of the Good-Bye speech together to fully understand what Jesus is talking about. I mean, duh, Jesus DID say it all.

And, what DID Jesus say to Peter?

“YOU FEED MY SHEEP.”

“YOU FOLLOW ME.” He said this command twice, to Peter.

The second time, Jesus said it like this, “YOU follow ME!” Get it?

Meaning, you (Peter) need to be following ME... NOT “ANOTHER.”

Bottom line? John... assumes... that Jesus is referring to Peter’s death (by crucifixion).

Can you think an assumption Real?

Do you think it is “impossible” for a hand-picked Apostle of Jesus to mistakenly assume what Jesus means by something Jesus says in his farewell speech to his hand-picked Apostles?

Think again. In the same Good-Bye speech, Jesus says:

John 21:22 (KJV) “If it is my will that he (the Apostle John) tarry until I come, what is that to you?”

In regard to this statement, ALL of Jesus’ hand-picked Apostles (including John) assumed what Jesus was “signifying.”

That the Apostle John would never die.

This folklore spread like wildfire “abroad among the brethren,” until John, himself renounced it. Had John not retracted this nonsense, “believers” today would still “believe” that John never died. In John’s hindsight, he corrected and retracted their mistaken assumption:

John 21:23 (NIV) “Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he (‘this disciple’ — John) would not die; he only said, ‘If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?’”

Likewise, Jesus did not say to Peter: Peter, you will be crucified upside-down.

He only said, “You will extend your hands and another will gird you, and carry you where you do not want to go.”

Only in OUR hindsight can the Holy Spirit correct this mistaken presumption, by helping us dutifully reexamine what Jesus is actually saying here. However — one must reexamine his ENTIRE Good-Bye speech to GET what the Holy Spirit is compelling us to GET. GET it?

Obviously (because of the “another will gird you” specifics), Jesus is NOT referencing Peter’s crucifixion in his farewell speech. Jesus is referencing something entirely different. Jesus is talking about Peter being led off as a slave.

Still don’t “believe” it? Open your Bible and look at the contents of the New Testament. Who ended up feeding the sheep?

The same guy who threw What’s-Been-Done-For-Us-On-the-Cross off of the airplane, resulting in a catastrophic plane crash.

Tell ’em, ANOTHER: (Romans 6:16) “I’ve got two dandy choices for you: You can be a slave... or... you can be a slave.”

Hope that helps. Do you finally GET it? Does it all make PERFECT sense from every angle? Well, then. If it does, then it is the Truth, the whole Truth, and not one more thing than the Truth. Jesus is not talking about Peter’s death.

Jesus is talking about Peter being led off as a slave.

 

[ScottA]

The Third One, theefaith replied to a thread you are watching at Christian Forums @ Christianity Board.

In regard to what Jesus said to Peter, it appears that the Apostle John's presumption is in error.

Is scripture wrong about Peter in Matt 16:18?



Wow, Theefaith.

One simple sentence.

A powerful question. Bravo.

As L3astAmOngManyB13ss3d said, “What a conundrum and where to start!” (After all, Christianity is stocked-full of conundrums.)

Let’s get it up in front of us and have a good look at it.

Here is how Matt 16:18 reads in the original Greek: “And I also say to you that you are Peter (a rock), and upon this rock I will build of me the gathering, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.”

Here is my one-sentence, simple answer to your question:

The Scripture verse (as it is written above in the original Koine Greek) is absolutely, 100% correct.

Here is where the conundrum comes in. What is absolutely, 100% wrong, is the Box-Stuffed dogma we have ALL been taught about this verse. Starting with how this verse has even been presented to us.

As an aside (for now), there is a very important word that has been inserted into this verse by our Mature-Christian, Church-Taught Bible-Makers. That word is certainly NOT the Word of God. In fact, this word is a manmade insert.

The word is “church.”

I guess we can put that on the back burner for now. Your question about Matthew 16:18 is in regard to Peter.

What you might find interesting about Matthew 16:18 (along with Matthew 16:19 — back-to-back verses), these verses have been INSERTED into the Caesarea Philippi scene. Why these sayings of Jesus were placed HERE in Matthew’s Gospel, is a mystery. Their misplacement creates a problem with context, which, overall, lends to misunderstanding the gist of what Jesus is saying.

Keep in mind, the Caesarea Philippi scene is where Peter blurts out what is commonly known as, “The Confession of Peter” (Pete’s outburst that Jesus is “the Son of God” and “the Christ”). True as Peter’s “Confession” is, Jesus was adamant about these highly classified secrets (concerning his identity) remaining exactly that. Secret. At Jesus’ directive, these secrets were NEVER supposed to be revealed to the general public at large (at least not in THIS lifetime). “Tell NO ONE I am the Christ” was a very serious and absolute command Jesus laid upon his Apostles — which was, ultimately, totally ignored by his the remaining eleven Apostles (or, at the very least, put aside by them).

Once Paul became privileged to this info (the Apostles’ insider talk about Jesus being “the Christ” and “the Son of God”), what should have remained a secret became the battle cry of a brand new Religion; of which, no one can dispute, Paul was greatly instrumental in creating.

Jesus is “the Christ,” the Messiah, for whom we have all been waiting!

The Jews could have come to that conclusion all on their own, once they truly accepted what had been done for them on the cross. But, as Paul and the Apostles’ began publically escalating the talk about Jesus, being the Son of God... then... furthermore, actually “God Himself,” the Fundamental-Jews saw this claim of divinity for Jesus as an abomination and, in terms of their “Faith,” absolute heresy. Even the Gentiles at Antioch joined in on the side of “abomination” and “heresy.” As an insult, they referred to these followers of Jesus as “Christians.”

The name stuck. And, so... it’s been two thousand years. And, here we are.

Had just Peter or Paul (either ONE of them) truly accepted, unto his own self, 100%, what’s been done for us on the cross, and taught others NOT ONE MORE THING than to do the same (no “ifs,” “ands” or “buts”), in less than 200 years, the entire world would have been RANSOMED.

We’d be living in a world that had long since been PERFECTED-back to what humanity thought about ourselves in the Garden of Eden (before disaster stuck). It’s ALL-GOOD. A world where sin (and the mental disease that causes sin — The Knowledge of Good & Evil) was forgotten nothingness. ALL the sin of the world... taken AWAY.

Instead, we ended up with a convoluted Religion stocked-full of conundrums.

Had Paul and the Apostles stuck, 100%, to the Jesus-Concept, we would ALL be Living in the “Kingdom-Come” world right this moment. The first century Jews would have had no problem with the Jesus Concept in its pure form. (What’s not to like about it?) But, the Jews were ruined for the Jesus Concept. By Paul and the Apostles letting the “Christ” and “the Son of God” cat out of the bag (and the “this means that Jesus IS God” cat out of the bag), the Jews became deaf as stone to hearing anything about what’s been done for us on the cross — what’s been done for ALL OF US on the cross — including the Jews.

Imagine, what a statement it would have made to the world, had the first century Jews (the very descendants of the people to whom the Living God revealed Himself) instantly embraced and truly accepted what’s been done for us on the cross.

You're rambling again.

Jesus did not mean for His identity to be a complete secret:

Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John 2 (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples), 3 He left Judea and departed again to Galilee. 4 But He needed to go through Samaria.

5 So He came to a city of Samaria which is called Sychar, near the plot of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. 6 Now Jacob’s well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied from His journey, sat thus by the well. It was about the sixth hour.

7 A woman of Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.” 8 For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food.

9 Then the woman of Samaria said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?” For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.

10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

11 The woman said to Him, “Sir, You have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where then do You get that living water? 12 Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?”

13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

15 The woman said to Him, “Sir, give me this water, that I may not thirst, nor come here to draw.”

16 Jesus said to her, “Go, call your husband, and come here.”

17 The woman answered and said, “I have no husband.”

Jesus said to her, “You have well said, ‘I have no husband,’ 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; in that you spoke truly.”

19 The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”

21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”

26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.” John 4:1-25​

 

[Scott Downey]

Gird, Girded, Girt (About, Up) - Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words
Gird, Girded, Girt (About, Up):

or zonnuo, "to gird" in the Middle Voice, "to gird oneself," is used of the long garments worn in the east, Jhn 21:18; Act 12:8 (perizonnumi in some mss.).

WHAT is the controversy about! There is none. Someone else dressed Peter to go to the place he did not want to go as in his death.
So he was forced to go with them. They dressed him against his wishes from his bed and took him to his execution. What a strange thing to harp on about. How many others here would also not cooperate in such a situation.
Likely they striped him there at that place. I do think they executed common criminals in the most undignified manner possible as an example to all who would see.

 

[Scott Downey]

Team Light does not need martyrs. Humanity’s RANSOM is already paid-in-full.

Yet, face2face, HERE is where WE (you and I) are in TOTAL agreement. You are absolutely correct. The idea of “follow me...” TO DEATH... is exactly what both Peter and John assumed Jesus meant by “Pick up your cross and follow me.” Same wrong assumption they gathered from Jesus’ Good-Bye speech. TO Peter’s DEATH is NOT what Jesus is talking about in his Good-Bye speech. You are in good company, my friend. You and John and Peter are ALL forgetting what Jesus ALSO said in his exact same Good-Bye speech.

“YOU FEED MY SHEEP.”

We need to put every sentence of the Good-Bye speech together to fully understand what Jesus is talking about. I mean, duh, Jesus DID say it all.

And, what DID Jesus say to Peter?

“YOU FEED MY SHEEP.”

“YOU FOLLOW ME.” He said this command twice, to Peter.

The second time, Jesus said it like this, “YOU follow ME!” Get it?

Meaning, you (Peter) need to be following ME... NOT “ANOTHER.”

Bottom line? John... assumes... that Jesus is referring to Peter’s death (by crucifixion).

Can you think an assumption Real?

Do you think it is “impossible” for a hand-picked Apostle of Jesus to mistakenly assume what Jesus means by something Jesus says in his farewell speech to his hand-picked Apostles?

Think again. In the same Good-Bye speech, Jesus says:

John 21:22 (KJV) “If it is my will that he (the Apostle John) tarry until I come, what is that to you?”

In regard to this statement, ALL of Jesus’ hand-picked Apostles (including John) assumed what Jesus was “signifying.”

That the Apostle John would never die.

This folklore spread like wildfire “abroad among the brethren,” until John, himself renounced it. Had John not retracted this nonsense, “believers” today would still “believe” that John never died. In John’s hindsight, he corrected and retracted their mistaken assumption:

John 21:23 (NIV) “Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he (‘this disciple’ — John) would not die; he only said, ‘If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?’”

Likewise, Jesus did not say to Peter: Peter, you will be crucified upside-down.

He only said, “You will extend your hands and another will gird you, and carry you where you do not want to go.”

Only in OUR hindsight can the Holy Spirit correct this mistaken presumption, by helping us dutifully reexamine what Jesus is actually saying here. However — one must reexamine his ENTIRE Good-Bye speech to GET what the Holy Spirit is compelling us to GET. GET it?

Obviously (because of the “another will gird you” specifics), Jesus is NOT referencing Peter’s crucifixion in his farewell speech. Jesus is referencing something entirely different. Jesus is talking about Peter being led off as a slave.

Still don’t “believe” it? Open your Bible and look at the contents of the New Testament. Who ended up feeding the sheep?

The same guy who threw What’s-Been-Done-For-Us-On-the-Cross off of the airplane, resulting in a catastrophic plane crash.

Tell ’em, ANOTHER: (Romans 6:16) “I’ve got two dandy choices for you: You can be a slave... or... you can be a slave.”

Hope that helps. Do you finally GET it? Does it all make PERFECT sense from every angle? Well, then. If it does, then it is the Truth, the whole Truth, and not one more thing than the Truth. Jesus is not talking about Peter’s death.

Jesus is talking about Peter being led off as a slave.

You do not believe the scriptures then, as plainly written.
I wonder what else you do not believe or believe that is contrary?
Once people are exposed as twisting the scripture, Peter warns us to be on our guard as they do also twist the other scriptures to their own destruction

 

[Scott Downey]

2 Peter 3:15-17
English Standard Version

15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.

 

[The Third One]

@ScottA,

Jesus said ALL this to one woman, at a private well. Even the disciples had no idea what Jesus and the woman were talking about. Team Light had no intention for this secret (True as it is) to be spread to the general public and, ultimately, to the world.

I've briefly discussed the serious impediments, that "letting the cat out of the bag" has caused, and why we (Team Light, if, indeed, you are part of it) are where we are at right now, in 2022 AD. We have a horrible 2000-Year Progress Report.

You had better go back and read your Gospels, and discern the Spirits. What did the demons (Team Darkness) cry out, as they were about to be cast from their victims? The exact same thing. Do you think they were helping Team Light, by declaring this "Confession" in public? How did Jesus react to their "help"? He STERNLY told them to shut the hell up.

And, @ScottDowney,

The whole thrust in this discussion comes from the Holy Spirit trying to provide us ALL with some BIG HELP in the matter of helping US truly accept, 100%, with no "ifs," "ands" or "buts," what's been done for us on the cross. If you have been perverted enough by your DOGMA, to think that truly accepting what's been done for us on the cross (or any part of the Truth I have been revealing to you to help us take ALL of these "ifs," "ands" and "buts" to the curb) leads to my "own destruction," then you need to have your head examined.

Let's keep it civil guys.

If you think I am doing this for my health or for a collection of dollars, you had best think again. The Holy Spirit is compelling me to do this. So, please, be careful. I could hurl an endless stream of denunciations against you... if you would like to turn this into a "You are the DEVIL!" contest.

I am not your enemy.

Quite the opposite.

 

[ScottA]

@ScottA,

Jesus said ALL this to one woman, at a private well. Even the disciples had no idea what Jesus and the woman were talking about. Team Light had no intention for this secret (True as it is) to be spread to the general public and, ultimately, to the world.

I've briefly discussed the serious impediments, that "letting the cat out of the bag" has caused, and why we (Team Light, if, indeed, you are part of it) are where we are at right now, in 2022 AD. We have a horrible 2000-Year Progress Report.

You had better go back and read your Gospels, and discern the Spirits. What did the demons (Team Darkness) cry out, as they were about to be cast from their victims? The exact same thing. Do you think they were helping Team Light, by declaring this "Confession" in public? How did Jesus react to their "help"? He STERNLY told them to shut the hell up.

Then your accusation is against Jesus Himself, who even publicly announced it:

And the high priest stood up in the midst and asked Jesus, saying, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” 61 But He kept silent and answered nothing.

Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?”

62 Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” Mark 14:60-62
​

As for your general assertion, I have addressed it in post #42.

 

[Scott Downey]

@ScottA,

Jesus said ALL this to one woman, at a private well. Even the disciples had no idea what Jesus and the woman were talking about. Team Light had no intention for this secret (True as it is) to be spread to the general public and, ultimately, to the world.

I've briefly discussed the serious impediments, that "letting the cat out of the bag" has caused, and why we (Team Light, if, indeed, you are part of it) are where we are at right now, in 2022 AD. We have a horrible 2000-Year Progress Report.

You had better go back and read your Gospels, and discern the Spirits. What did the demons (Team Darkness) cry out, as they were about to be cast from their victims? The exact same thing. Do you think they were helping Team Light, by declaring this "Confession" in public? How did Jesus react to their "help"? He STERNLY told them to shut the hell up.

And, @ScottDowney,

The whole thrust in this discussion comes from the Holy Spirit trying to provide us ALL with some BIG HELP in the matter of helping US truly accept, 100%, with no "ifs," "ands" or "buts," what's been done for us on the cross. If you have been perverted enough by your DOGMA, to think that truly accepting what's been done for us on the cross (or any part of the Truth I have been revealing to you to help us take ALL of these "ifs," "ands" and "buts" to the curb) leads to my "own destruction," then you need to have your head examined.

Let's keep it civil guys.

If you think I am doing this for my health or for a collection of dollars, you had best think again. The Holy Spirit is compelling me to do this. So, please, be careful. I could hurl an endless stream of denunciations against you... if you would like to turn this into a "You are the DEVIL!" contest.

I am not your enemy.

Quite the opposite.

Some errors are more obvious than others, and here you go with yours challenging what Christ really did say.
I have talked with other people who have also said that Christ did not say something, only something attributed to Christ by the writers of the gospel and He never actually said such a thing.

Peter also has an answer for that against you.
2 Peter 1
16 For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” 18 we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 19 And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus also tells us this, that scripture can not be broken, but you break it by your false teaching, so by going contrary to what Christ said about Peter's death, your proven to be teaching something false.

John 10:34-36
English Standard Version

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— 36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

 

[face2face]

Hi @face2face,

Now, we’re talking. (Literally)

You state, “I’m not certain what you are making of this word ‘Gird.’”

Okay. Let’s try this again. In his Good-Bye Speech, Jesus specifically warns Peter that “Another will gird you.” Basically, to gird one’s self is to transform a tunic into a diaper around your hips. It allows mobility for hard labor (you can find the full details of this process on my second post in this thread).

We have indisputably established that Jesus is certainly NOT warning Peter about one of the Roman “Nailers” (at Pete’s crucifixion site) — some party to the execution squad, who will take the time and courtesy to gird Peter’s tunic around Peter’s loins, so that Peter can look presentable... before they slaughter him to death. Quite impossible. Why? Because, by order of the Roman Crucifixion Handbook, condemned men are ALWAYS crucified entirely naked.

Thus, the problem with YOUR theory:

You need to account for WHOM Jesus means by “ANOTHER.” Yet, even more perplexing, why on earth would ANOTHER person be girding Peter?

Actually, not so perplexing at all. There is one (and only one) reason why any living man (man 1) would be girded by ANOTHER man (man 2). Only if man 1 is a SLAVE, being prepared for hard labor by his MASTER, man 2.

Jesus warns Peter, “You will extend you hands.”

John mistakenly assumes, this means, “hands extended” out to Peter’s left and right. As in crucifixion. That is one of the big reasons John assumes that this is Jesus’ way of “Signifying by what death (crucifixion) Peter should glorify God” (John 21:19). Oops. John overlooked the, “ANOTHER will GIRD you” part — which completely rules out the idea that Jesus is talking about Peter’s death by crucifixion.

Yes, Jesus warns Peter that Peter will extend his hands outward. (Re-picture that image.) Extended out IN FRONT of Peter. Jesus is telling Peter what the future holds for him — that Peter will be led off as a slave... by ANOTHER... who “will gird you, and carry you where you do not want to go.” Not to martyrdom.

To slavery. Where no one wants to go.

This is nowhere near as complicated as you are trying to make it out to be. Concentrate on Jesus’ Good-Bye speech in its entirety. You are disagreeing, without considering what comes earlier in the speech. Jesus — reminding Peter of his FREEDOM.

Real FREEDOM — that Peter is destined to willingly trade off... for slavery.

EVERY BIT OF THIS is contained within the Good-Bye speech. And, THAT is what you need to address. But, first, take your time to reexamine the entire Good-Bye speech. Even THAT will do you no good unless you get your head out of the Box. Try your best to read it without the Church whispering in your ear. You have been Church-Taught HOW you are supposed to interpret these verses. Get your head out of the Box, and reexamine it... from every angle.

You write, “Peter being prepared to die… is actually false, because he denied his Lord three times.” I guess you must have forgotten what you, yourself wrote, only two sentences prior, “Peter was now fully aware how he would die, compare 2 Peter 1:14.”

Peter’s past “three times denial” is high octane gasoline for his present martyr fire: “I’ll never let THAT happen again!”

AND: “I’LL show ’em just how well I can die!”

I see your dilemma now.

The term "gird" is used not literally in that context but as it's often used spiritually, such as Luke 12:35 - i.e Waiting time is spent in action! “Gird up loins of your mind” 1 Peter 1:13, “Girt about with truth” Ephesians 4:14 and so on.

I think you are missing out on the "why" Jesus is using that term...it's not literal!

Prior to the fire on the shore Peter girded himself! (in other words Peter used his own strength in service - produced shame!!!)
Post fire on the shore "another" will gird him (he will learn how to allow the strength of Christ to work in his life - produced love!!!)

Straight forward really.

 

[The Third One]

@ScottDowney writes, “Some errors are more obvious than others, and here you go with yours challenging what Christ really did say.”

Why are you twisting the Truth into such a bitter falsehood?

I have not challenged one Word that came out of the mouth of Jesus. That is the God’s-honest Truth. If you had bothered to read what I have posted (thus far within this thread), the thread itself confirms the Truth of what I am saying. I have praised the Apostles for bringing Jesus’ Words to us. I have repeatedly thanked them for their magnificent testimony. Especially the Apostle, John — whom, for the sake of the entire world, captured the Words of Jesus as accurately as any court stenographer could ever do.

You write that “Peter...has an answer...against you.”

Why, in God’s knowing sight, would Peter be against me? I am not against Peter. I never said it was Peter’s fault that he got bamboozled by “another.” Neither is it “another’s” fault. Jesus is talking about the devil when he says that, “the enemy came and sowed afterward Tares among the Wheat, and went AWAY. And when sprouted the grass and it produced fruit, then appeared also the tares.”

I have not accused Peter, Paul nor John of being the enemy. They are not the enemy. Quite the opposite. I don’t think YOU’RE are the enemy, either. Why ever would you think ME the enemy? I am neither “ignorant” nor “unstable” nor am I promoting “lawlessness” nor am I “twisting things to my own destruction.”

What is the REAL problem if the Apostle John simply DID make a simple mistake?

ALL of the remaining Apostles made the same Biblically documented mistake when they all assumed (from the Good-Bye Speech) that Jesus meant that John would never die. John was still around to recant their unanimous mistake. The world didn’t explode into smithereens, because all the Apostles made a mistake.

Face the facts. You are bias, because of your “beliefs.” If I was the foreman of our jury, summing up these facts up for us, and none of us knew these guys from Adam, we’d all be a unanimous jury at this point.

You are not defending facts. You are defending your Religion.

We can blab on and on, yet the overall FREEDOM versus SLAVERY Truth of what Jesus is warning every single one of us about (in his Good-Bye Speech to Peter), still remains undisputed.

If we concede that John made an incorrect assumption about guessing what Jesus means by something that Jesus said, does Your ENTIRE RELIGIOUS WORLD fall apart? Are you afraid that we’ll have to start tearing down Apostle John statues? (lol)

Isn’t the Truth the most important thing, above ALL other things?

Is this a game you are trying to win? Or is this a desperate attempt to reinforce the Box? A cardboard Box... that is beginning to fill up with holes. You can fuss all you want. But, when your defense are down, the Holy Spirit will speak to you. Try to listen.

The Holy Spirit scores a tiny, pencil-size hole in the side of the Box. And, here comes the Calvary! With duct tape and bubblegum to cover the fissure. No doubt, the soldiers are fearful that any dent will turn into a gapping aperture. How about we all make a pact to each other... to be very careful... be kind to other... and stick to the Truth? Is that okay with everyone?

@ScottA writes, “Then your accusation is against Jesus Himself.”

I must have missed something. My accusation? I don’t recall “accusing” anyone of anything.

These are not MY disciples. I did not command them to be silence about ME being “the Christ.” So, who am I to accuse them of anything? All I am doing is stating the facts.

FACT #1: We have a SERIOUS problem. It is 2022, and we are no better off (sin-wise) than the day before John the Baptist’s announcement about the sins of the entire world, being taken AWAY.

FACT #2: A huge contributing factor to this disaster is that we are run (like robots) by a Religion that found the whole “Christ” thing a more important thing than truly accepting what’s been done for us on the cross.

FACT #3: Jesus, absolutely, and without question, commanded his disciples to tell NO ONE that he is the Christ:

Matthew 16:20 (KJV) “Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.”

And:

Mark 8:30 (KJV) “And he charged them that they should tell no man of him (being the Christ).”

Even Luke carefully heeds the command of Jesus by NOT openly penning “the Christ” into his commentary. Instead, referring to it as “that thing”:

Luke 9:21 (KJV) “And he (Jesus) straightly charged them (the Twelve) and commanded them to tell no man that thing.”

It is a simple fact that what Jesus’ commanded these guys... was disregarded by them.

 

[The Third One]

As for Peter’s “confession,” the “demons” (who blurted out the same “confession”) were much more obedient to Jesus than were the remaining Apostles, once left to their own devices... and the bright ideas of “another.”

What was is that Peter called “another’s” brilliance (in defense of Pete’s newfound Master)? Oh yeah, “Wisdom given unto him.”

As for, whomever Jesus decides to tell? ie: “Hey, dude. I’m ‘the Son of GOD’”? Or: “Yeah, ya sanctimonious bozo, I’m ‘the Christ’.” Uh... I would have to say, that is strictly up to Jesus.

If you are suggesting that this presents a contradiction — Jesus telling his Apostles never to blab a word (about him being “the Christ” and “the Son of God”), yet; him, telling certain people himself? I think you would have a hard time presenting that contradiction to a jury of your peers.

The two things happening simultaneously do not contradict what I have been telling you. Jesus had the ongoing opportunity to spread “the Christ” and “Son of God” news to the multitudes; if, in fact, him BEING “the Christ” WAS the Good News. It was not. The Good News was Jesus putting a little child on his knee and telling the multitudes, “Unless you become like this little child, you cannot get the Kingdom of Heaven.”

Do you think the High Priest was going to repeat what Jesus “claimed to be” to the multitudes?

As for WHY Jesus told them this, at his “trial”? Put on your Jesus-Head. Why NOT tell Caiaphas and his cohorts the Truth? If your goal is to get crucified, you would be hard-pressed to find a better way to make THAT happen.

As for @face2face,

Do you REALLY, HONESTLY get the idea that Jesus is NOT being literal about “the girding”?

If so, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I get the idea that you are still not taking Jesus’ entire speech into consideration. You never answered my question. By YOUR analysis, who is “another”?

Jesus is talking about FREEDOM... and SLAVERY. “

Another will gird you, and take you where you do not want to go.” “Another will gird you.” “ANOTHER will GIRD you.” You’d have to be blind not to see it.

I bet you REALLY WOULD be seeing it clearly, right now, if your Senior Pastor had taught ALL this to you... since you were seven-years-old.

And, now... with ScottA’s permission to “ramble” on a bit more… (to shay) allow me a moment to try my best to better explain what this thread is about.

We are truly blessed to HAVE as many of Jesus’ Words that HAVE come down to us intact. However, we are missing plenty. Some of his Words have been OVERDUBBED.

Thus far, I have mentioned only one. On the musical record that you have been listening to, “Jesus drawing ALL of humanity to himself” (meaning, his “GATHERING”) has been erased. In its place, the word “Church” has been PUNCHED-IN to the music — to make the song go platinum for “The Faithful.”

John tells us at end of his Gospel that “the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.” We have one book. Compare that to the size of “the world itself.” A twelve-point Bible stands about two inches thick. Less than half of that entails the Church-Selected portion of the inspired first century writings -- those which “the Church” deemed fit for us to read (The New Testament). And, one sixteenth-of-an-inch... of THAT... is the Gospels.

Specifically because of the “Faith” (that you guys are in such an uproar to protect and defend), many of Jesus’ Words have been completely lost to us. Including FIVE of his most important Words (BURIED before our very eyes) that teach us EXACTLY what’s been done for us on the cross: “RANSOM,” “AWAY,” “PERFECT,” “FREEDOM” and ALL.

ALL and AWAY are simply gone. Fallen by the wayside. Lost to us early on in the later part of the first century. Although wonderfully simple to understand when read in any other context, as these Words are read within Scripture, ALL and AWAY have become incompressible gibberish to Christian-Trained Bible readers from scholars to beginners.

FREEDOM? I have never heard this Word killed more PERFECTLY than by an affable evangelical deacon who recently explained it to me like this, “Paul wants us to be FREE, but not too FREE.” That’s Religion talking. FREE enough to properly work the Plantation. Ample mobility. So we can really put our backs into it.

As for the Word, PERFECT, consider this. If ALL your sins (past, present and future) are taken AWAY, you are sinless and stand in PERFECT righteousness. Correct?

Nope. Not according to our “belief” system. Not one Christian priest, pastor or organized person of any spiritual influence seems to understand the full and PERFECT power of what’s been done for us on the cross.

Accordingly, we are editing the Word PERFECT out of Scripture. Censored. Going bye-bye as we speak. Our “Faith” declares that no man can ever be sinless or PERFECT in this world; contrary to Jesus’ explicit blessing: “Be PERFECT, even as your Father in Heaven is PERFECT.”

RANSOM is the trickiest of the five, yet equally simple, having only one meaning. Unfortunately, that meaning remains lost to our “belief” system.

Simply put, these wonderfully simple Words of Jesus and their simple meanings simply do not fly in Christian circles. Specifically, the pilots do not allow them passage on board FCA (Fundamental Christian Airlines). Strictly refused as dangerous baggage.

And, so... Mature-Christian brothers and sisters, be warned. It is quite possible to feel apprehension, confusion, fear, defensive fury, even anger and hatred as we exhume the bodies: RANSOM, AWAY, PERFECT, FREEDOM and ALL.

Our level of defensive fury, anger and hatred comes to us in direct proportion to how after-the-fact complicit we are in killing and burying these wonderfully simple Words. Our mental state. Our participation and or our assistance. To put it bluntly, our conspiratorial liability.

 

[The Third One]

Mature Christians? Complicit to murdering the God’s-honest Truth? Furious, angry and hateful about being shown the God’s-honest Truth? Seriously?

Seriously. As were the Pharisees of 25 AD. We now have over two-thousand years of the Christian “belief” system behind us. To a person, the pilots flying FCA are indelibly convinced: We already have a solid handle on the Truth.

Such thinking builds fixed fortifications against the invasion of Truth. Hard heads encased in blocks of cheese.

Worse, yet typical to Religion, there is danger in parting the cheese, opening the eyes and unblocking the ears. It can be horrifyingly frustrating to the point of madness for a thoroughly-equipped “believer” to learn that the Truth, the whole Truth and not any other thing but the God’s-honest Truth lay outside of what he has been taught to “believe.” Especially frustrating when there is no defendable way for him to argue against it. It can be lethal. Yes, even to good, godly Christians. It can make a good, godly Christian want to kill somebody. It made the good, godly Pharisees of 25AD want to kill somebody... (the somebody who was telling them the Truth).

Jesus looked forward to this day and predicted, “The Truth shall set you FREE.” Hold fast to his sunny forecast as an encouragement to keep reading. Perhaps even for us to go off by ourselves and find a quiet place to keep reading.

Why would we want to do that?

Well... we might just be interested to know that Jesus’ definition of FREE is “FREE-Indeed.” Not “FREE, but not too FREE.”

A bumpy ride? Unimaginable, if one remains stuck in the Box. Kind of like a trailer caught-up in an F-5 tornado. If you stay inside the Box, it is going to be a catastrophic ride. The Holy Spirit (the “Mighty Wind” of Genesis) is about to blow the Box into the path of a speeding freight train. So, guys and gals, how about we just take it easy on each other. Trust me. While we are in this room, you have the God-Given Right to simply step out of the Box. Take a nice easy look at It from the outside. You see? Then, it’s not so personal to any one of us. It’s not all so tragic. We are simply about to bump hard against a cart-full of carefully placed apples.

The Holy Spirit is the One Who suggested that we start with FREEDOM.

The more I read the Gospels, I find that Jesus is always talking about what’s been done for us on the cross. In his final Words, Jesus warned Peter that Peter’s cross-earned FREEDOM would soon be taken AWAY from him. Actually, taken AWAY from ALL of us. By “another.” I suggest we move on to Romans 6:16 — it is in my last posting to @L3astAmOngManyB13ss3d. You guys should be ALL-OVER that one.

If you can pray up enough strength to continue onward, do yourself a big favor. Let the onset of fear and anger go. Pray for the God’s-honest Truth above ALL things. Even above “faith.” Truth (and the acceptance of it) is much more important than “believing.”

RANSOM, AWAY, PERFECT, FREEDOM and ALL. What’s been done for us on the cross cannot be honestly accepted without them. These Words are pillars of Truth, with which we can no longer argue nor ignore. “Believer,” if you are determined to “believe” something, “believe” this. Continue onward and these five wonderfully simple Words of Jesus will mean something to you.

Either a comeuppance. Cheese melted. Indoctrinated fear and faithlessness parted. Houses turned over. Corpses exhumed. You and your priest or senior pastor led AWAY in handcuffs, or...

These wonderfully simple Words will be your cherished gifts forever. Belated (or early) Christmas presents for you and your priest or senior pastor to lovingly unwrap.

Peace and love to you all,

The Third One