In Revelation the word "church" is not mentioned......

[afaithfulone4u]

after Chapter 3:14 and many would have you believe that it means the church has been taken out or CAUGHT UP before Chapter 4.
But!.... the word SAINTS is mentioned 13 times from Rev.5:8 to Rev.20:9 and here is one of those mentions:

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
KJV

 

[Angelina]

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22

 

[afaithfulone4u]

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22

You are correct that the word churches is in Rev.22 I stand corrected... But it doesn't change the outcome of what my OP shows. That the saints are mentioned past Rev.4 which is when many believe the rapture takes place yet it does not.
Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

The rapture is not for the church. You are correct.

The Jews were waiting for the rapture.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

After the rapture on the last day (end of the age of law) in 70 AD the new covenant was complete and now if we believe in Jesus we will never die (spiritually).

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?


None of the bible was addressed to our generation.

 

[daq]

The rapture is not for the church. You are correct.

The Jews were waiting for the rapture.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

After the rapture on the last day (end of the age of law) in 70 AD the new covenant was complete and now if we believe in Jesus we will never die (spiritually).

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?


None of the bible was addressed to our generation.

The Word is addressed to all generations including your own fourth generation subspecies of tree.
However, without Torah you will not see that fourth generation genos until it is too late; and he is Legion. :lol:

 

[veteran]

You are correct that the word churches is in Rev.22 I stand corrected... But it doesn't change the outcome of what my OP shows. That the saints are mentioned past Rev.4 which is when many believe the rapture takes place yet it does not.
Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

The Pre-tribbers got a supposed 'out' for the existence of the Rev.13 mention of "saints" too. They treat that passage to mean Israelite tribulation saints that are left-behind (which of course is false).

Anyone with a thread of common sense ought to realize that idea as stupid, since it is like saying the only ones to be raptured means the 'Church of the Gentiles'.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

after Chapter 3:14 and many would have you believe that it means the church has been taken out or CAUGHT UP before Chapter 4.
But!.... the word SAINTS is mentioned 13 times from Rev.5:8 to Rev.20:9 and here is one of those mentions:

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
KJV

Then please tell us who is Israel in Revelation ???????????????

Everything focuses on Israel in the end

Revelation is not just about some little christian in North America !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[veteran]

Then please tell us who is Israel in Revelation ???????????????

Everything focuses on Israel in the end

Revelation is not just about some little christian in North America !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Col 3:10-11
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him That created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
(KJV)

Either you believe what Apostle Paul said there, or you don't.

Dispensationalism has wrongly taught you to think Israelite saints are not in the same Church as Gentile saints. They have told you a lie.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Col 3:10-11
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him That created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
(KJV)

Either you believe what Apostle Paul said there, or you don't.

Dispensationalism has wrongly taught you to think Israelite saints are not in the same Church as Gentile saints. They have told you a lie.

Don't change the subject !!!!!!!!!!!!
Pretty clever !!!!!!!!!
Typical false teacher !!!!!!!!!!!

When end time nations are coming from the north and south and east .... are they heading toward Israel or Pennsylvania ?????

 

[veteran]

Don't change the subject !!!!!!!!!!!!
Pretty clever !!!!!!!!!
Typical false teacher !!!!!!!!!!!

When end time nations are coming from the north and south and east .... are they heading toward Israel or Pennsylvania ?????

I suppose you will better understand when the Pre-Trib preachers start telling you to trek to Jerusalem to worship the one that is coming there to set himself up as God in the Jew's soon to be built temple. It will be an event that will affect all peoples in all... nations. That is to occur prior to the northern armies of Ezekiel 38 coming upon the land of Israel in final to destroy.

Concerning the nation alignment of Ezekiel 38 that will come upon Israel in final, what makes you think that alignment today isn't already affecting the nations outside the middleast? That alignment = Russia, Libya, Persia (Iran, Iraq), Ethiopia (Sudan, Yemen), Togarmah (Turkey), Gomer (Georgia and ex-Soviet states).

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I suppose you will better understand when the Pre-Trib preachers start telling you to trek to Jerusalem to worship the one that is coming there to set himself up as God in the Jew's soon to be built temple. It will be an event that will affect all peoples in all... nations. That is to occur prior to the northern armies of Ezekiel 38 coming upon the land of Israel in final to destroy.

Concerning the nation alignment of Ezekiel 38 that will come upon Israel in final, what makes you think that alignment today isn't already affecting the nations outside the middleast? That alignment = Russia, Libya, Persia (Iran, Iraq), Ethiopia (Sudan, Yemen), Togarmah (Turkey), Gomer (Georgia and ex-Soviet states).

What in the world ever gave you the idea that some pre-trib preachers control anybody ???? Did you just make that up ???

And about Eze 38 ... yes of course it has an effect today .... and of course those nations will head toward the Israel you do not believe in .... and guess what ..... in the midst of the slaughter guess who comes to Israel and put a stop to the killing ?????

 

[veteran]

What in the world ever gave you the idea that some pre-trib preachers control anybody ???? Did you just make that up ???

And about Eze 38 ... yes of course it has an effect today .... and of course those nations will head toward the Israel you do not believe in .... and guess what ..... in the midst of the slaughter guess who comes to Israel and put a stop to the killing ?????

Even though there's probably a greater number of Jews that live in the Christian West, you think we in the Christian West are going to be left out of that northern army's wake? The fact of the 9/11 events ought to make you consider more carefully. You probably wouldn't even have understood much about the Ezek.38-39 events if there hadn't already been lengthy debates about it here on this forum in the past.

Just which Biblical 'house' did God give Ezekiel to prophesy that to anway? Ans: "house of Israel". If you concentrate on the Ezek.39 prophecy you should see a problem with thinking it only involves the area of the middleast...

Ezek 39:12
12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
(KJV)

The "house of Israel" was defined for us back in the Ezekiel 37 chapter, pointing to Ephraim and the ten tribes of Israel as one stick, and the other stick representing the "house of Judah" or Jews. The majority of the ten tribes were scattered out of the holy land first, and then the majority of Jews of the house of Judah later also, with only a small remnant of the house of Judah returning to the middleast. Over the centuries after Jerusalem's destruction, more Jews began returning to the holy lands, but not the ten tribes which were never known as Jews. God reveals this here...

Ezek 39:22-29
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against Me, therefore hid I My face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

Did God scatter the Jews also, and not just the "house of Israel" ten tribes only? Yes... but, God did not hide His face from scattered Judah (Jews). When the ten tribes were scattered to continue in their pagan Baal worship and forgot God, that's when He forgot the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) and hid His face from them. Here, He is telling us that will have ended, and even the whole world at this point will know about the ten tribed scattered house of Israel and how He hid their heritage from them, and from the whole world. Today, the "house of Israel" is still scattered among the Gentile nations with the majority of them not knowing who they are, even as this point of prophecy reveals.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid My face from them.
25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for My holy name;

When God brings that judgment at the very end of this present world, that's when He will gather the 12 tribes of Israel back to Him. Because Jacob is mentioned, that means both 'houses' of Israel, the Ezek.37 joining of the two sticks. That involves the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and gathering to Him.
26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against Me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

Even today, have the Jews in the middleast dwelt safely in their lands per this? No. They have constantly had to battle invaders and attackers from the nations of Islam around them that seeks to destroy them, many terrorist bombings, mortar and rocket attacks. Radical Islam's weapons are mostly supplied by Russia and Red China and its allies.

Many of the Jews in the middleast walk around carrying a weapon in public because of the immediate threat to their safety (I saw a picture of a girl in Jerusalem dressed in blue jean shorts and blouse with an AR-15 strung across her back with a thirty round magazine in her back pocket, and a bottle of lotion in her hand, strolling the sidewalk). What about the Christian West then, have we dwelt safely in our lands in the West? Compared to the middleast definitely yes. That's why 9/11 was such a shock, many figured something like that could never happen in America. It was a wake-up call for many, but obviously not for the majority. Also, Ezek.38 refers to a people dwelling safely in their lands without walls (Ezek.38:11).

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

That is not about Judah living in the middleast. It's about the scattered 12 tribes dwelling in lands outside the middleast, i.e., in their "enemies' lands", an immediate wider scope than just the middleast.

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, Which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29 Neither will I hide My face any more from them: for I have poured out My spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
(KJV)

When God does this upon Gog and Magog, that's when the scattered ten tribes who lost their heritage as the other part of Israel will then understand how God had scattered them among the nations.

This Judgment at Armageddon will include the event of God's consuming fire burning up man's works off all this earth (2 Pet.3:10), so it will be an event the whole world will experience. And nations in the Christian West do have lands north where the Gog and Magog armies can access.

 

[Dodo_David]

You are correct that the word churches is in Rev.22 I stand corrected

Technically, the word church isn't in the Greek manuscripts at all.
The word church is Germanic in origin, and the New Testament writers didn't use Germanic words.

The actual word in the Greek texts is ἐκκλησίας, which is transliterated into English as ěkklēsias.
Vine's dictionary defines ἐκκλησίας as "congregation".

So, it appears to me that the book of Revelation uses ἐκκλησίας when talking about a specific formal congregation.
That is why we don't see ἐκκλησίας between Rev. 3:14 and Rev. 22:16, because no specific formal congregation is mentioned.