Inconsistency of Christians never being sinless

[Ghada]

Let's look at the logical and doctrinal inconsistencies of teach that Christians can never being sinless on earth.

The Bible says being sinless is being innocent and guiltless of sinning and transgressing the law of God.

Sinless is not sinning. Sinful is sinning.

And so, logically speaking, if we are not ever sinless and not sinning, then we are always sinful by sinning.

And so once again logically speaking, as pertaining to the Christian doctrine of sinning from time to time. If we are only sinful some of the time, then we must also be sinless some of the time.

Therefore, the Christian doctrine against Christians ever being sinless and not sinning, can only be taught by those Christians sinning all the time, and not just some of the time.

And so with more logic applied, if we preach only sinning from time to time, we cannot also preach never being sinless at any time.

The real question then is what about the rest of time we are not sinning? Why does that sinless time have to end at all? Why must we change and be sinful at any time? The inconsistency is clear and the question is telling. Especially since Bible doctrine commands man since the garden not to sinfully disobey God,

This shows that those Christians preaching only sinning from time to time, are not really preaching against ever being sinless at any time. What they are preaching is simple double heartedness in the faith of Christ. They preach a Christian lifetime of sometimes sinning and sometimes not sinning.

They are preaching the partial sinless gospel of the double minded in Christ. They are preaching Romans 7 for life.

Which of course is not unheard of since Paul himself spoke of his own affliction at finding himself double hearted in Christ Jesus. And I for one know exactly what that is like, having been there and done that myself.

And so preaching double heartedness and not being sinless all the time, would be one thing I would not do. However, not all Christians leave well enough alone, but must go out there way not only to preach their imperfect partially sinless gospel, but they must also attack the full-time sinless Gospel, which is that of Jesus Christ in the Bible.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Their part-time righteous gospel is based upon unbelief in the all the words of the Bible, and some of them resent Christians that believe and do all the word of God, even as we are commanded to do in the Bible with a whole heart. Some even attack preachers of righteousness, and I have even seen some declare such preachers are not saved and condemned to hell.

And why? Because they preach being sinless and doing righteousness at all times like the Bible, while they themselves only preach being sinless part of time? Doesn't seem very fair to me.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Many cannot resist the temptations of the flesh because they are not in the Spirit.

“Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” (Matthew 26:41, KJV)

 

[Windmill Charge]

Christians are not perfect, we are being changed by the indwelling spirit, but we will only be perfect following our resurrection, until then we are sinners saved by grace.
Sinners who still sin.

 

[bluedragon]

Let's look at the logical and doctrinal inconsistencies of teach that Christians can never being sinless on earth.

The Bible says being sinless is being innocent and guiltless of sinning and transgressing the law of God.

Sinless is not sinning. Sinful is sinning.

And so, logically speaking, if we are not ever sinless and not sinning, then we are always sinful by sinning.

And so once again logically speaking, as pertaining to the Christian doctrine of sinning from time to time. If we are only sinful some of the time, then we must also be sinless some of the time.

Therefore, the Christian doctrine against Christians ever being sinless and not sinning, can only be taught by those Christians sinning all the time, and not just some of the time.

And so with more logic applied, if we preach only sinning from time to time, we cannot also preach never being sinless at any time.

The real question then is what about the rest of time we are not sinning? Why does that sinless time have to end at all? Why must we change and be sinful at any time? The inconsistency is clear and the question is telling. Especially since Bible doctrine commands man since the garden not to sinfully disobey God,

This shows that those Christians preaching only sinning from time to time, are not really preaching against ever being sinless at any time. What they are preaching is simple double heartedness in the faith of Christ. They preach a Christian lifetime of sometimes sinning and sometimes not sinning.

They are preaching the partial sinless gospel of the double minded in Christ. They are preaching Romans 7 for life.

Which of course is not unheard of since Paul himself spoke of his own affliction at finding himself double hearted in Christ Jesus. And I for one know exactly what that is like, having been there and done that myself.

And so preaching double heartedness and not being sinless all the time, would be one thing I would not do. However, not all Christians leave well enough alone, but must go out there way not only to preach their imperfect partially sinless gospel, but they must also attack the full-time sinless Gospel, which is that of Jesus Christ in the Bible.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Their part-time righteous gospel is based upon unbelief in the all the words of the Bible, and some of them resent Christians that believe and do all the word of God, even as we are commanded to do in the Bible with a whole heart. Some even attack preachers of righteousness, and I have even seen some declare such preachers are not saved and condemned to hell.

And why? Because they preach being sinless and doing righteousness at all times like the Bible, while they themselves only preach being sinless part of time? Doesn't seem very fair to me.

Trust me and the Bible. According to scripture ......you are sinning .....

 

[Jack]

I know some 'Christians' say they haven't sinned since they got saved years ago. That can be very dangerous. If someone doesn't confess his sin he may not be forgiven!

Luke 18
11 "The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: 'God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.12 'I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.' 13 "But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!' 14 "I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

 

[bluedragon]

I know some 'Christians' say they haven't sinned since they got saved years ago. That's very dangerous. If someone doesn't confess his sin he may not be forgiven!

Luke 18
11 "The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: 'God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.12 'I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.' 13 "But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!' 14 "I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

I sing to my wife each day and ask God to forgive known and unknown sins .....

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Ghada,

I have to be honest and still admit there is times where anger is my issue, and sometimes hatred can be my issue, however the more one goes to the solution is to keep ones eye on Christ, the easier to deal with that issue can be mitigated. To be authentic is an important trait when it comes to the Creator which one serves, as it says in the bible that He resist those who are proud, and gives grace to the humble.

Therefore I will never be perfect in my flesh; although Christ with-in me can hold it back and through God and his chastening; there are times when my flesh desires it's on way, and when the thought comes up and it just happens - those are the times I must realize my weakness, and realize the strength of Christ, and the importance to continue to walk humbly before the Lord God Almighty.

It's definitely died from where it use to be when I was younger it still comes up though from time to time. It's important to be honest and authentic with oneself otherwise we forget.

All the best,
Matthew

 

[bluedragon]

Hello @Ghada,

I have to be honest and still admit there is times where anger is my issue, and sometimes hatred can be my issue, however the more one goes to the solution is to keep ones eye on Christ, the easier to deal with that issue can be mitigated. To be authentic is an important trait when it comes to the Creator which one serves, as it says in the bible that He resist those who are proud, and gives grace to the humble.

Therefore I will never be perfect in my flesh; although Christ with-in me can hold it back and through God and his chastening; there are times when my flesh desires it's on way, and when the thought comes up and it just happens - those are the times I must realize my weakness, and realize the strength of Christ, and the importance to continue to walk humbly before the Lord God Almighty.

It's definitely died from where it use to be when I was younger it still comes up though from time to time. It's important to be honest and authentic with oneself otherwise we forget.

All the best,
Matthew

I drive all day. I get angry in traffic, because most drivers never took a driving lesson in their life. When I arrive at my destination, I take a few moments to ask forgiveness at my anger and thank God for ability to quiet my heart. Then I'll joke .....if he had been a linebacker, not looking, blindside to cure his ills .........

 

[MatthewG]

I drive all day. I get angry in traffic, because most drivers never took a driving lesson in their life. When I arrive at my destination, I take a few moments to ask forgiveness at my anger and thank God for ability to quiet my heart. Then I'll joke .....if he had been a linebacker, not looking, blindside to cure his ills .........

It's so good to be honest with oneself, in the mirror. Thank you for your words.

Sometimes people look in the mirror and walk away and forget what manner of a person they can be.

I remember the times being younger and having murderous intentions towards my mom. I remember the thoughts of stabbing her in her sleep because of my own choices and never knowing God, or what true love was. I really hated God... I didn't understand at all. I really hated everyone else too, and just did not understand anything... I was maybe 17-18.

Praise be to Yahava, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who never gave up nor stopped calling out, by the spirit and met them at 26, and am 32 now.

 

[bluedragon]

I still look for linebacker not looking, so I can blindside him ......LOL

Insurance Company doesn't like that.

 

[MatthewG]

Sorry, I lack a sense of humor on the internet, most of the time @bluedragon. Just desired to share some truths about the self - the flesh by interaction of the (heart/mind/will/emotion) of the inner soul that needs to be renewed. :)

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7266713237100449067

 

[bluedragon]

Sorry, I lack a sense of humor on the internet, most of the time @bluedragon.

Your good Brother ....I am a wee bit of a rebel at heart. It keeps me motivated ....

 

[Ghada]

Christians are not perfect, we are being changed by the indwelling spirit,

So, you agree in being sinless part of the time, and sinful part of the time. Or are you sinful all the time?

but we will only be perfect following our resurrection,

Yes, this is the imperfect Christian gospel of partial religious conversion only. Those who teach it don't believe they will be wholly newborn with all things now being of God, until after the grave. They don't believe 2 Cor 5:17-18 applies in this life.

until then we are sinners saved by grace.
Sinners who still sin.

Yes, those believing in the gospel of your incomplete conversion in this life, certainly are still sinners still sinning. There's no reason to doubt your testimony of yourself and others believing and living like you. However, not all are like you, because they at least want to say Christian sinners who still sin. They want to distinguish themselves from the rest of the world by a title at least.

And there's no doubt you are saved by your grace and faith alone, with a better life than before, since you are no doubt sinning much less. Unless I am mistaken and you are always still sinning and sinful.

But, the only question remains to be answered, is to see whether your salvation by your faith alone will go beyond the grave to resurrect you unto life.

I only trust in the eternal salvation that endures beyond the grave, which is that of Jesus Christ in the Bible, where only those obeying Jesus in the end obtain His eternal salvation.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

 

[Ghada]

Since there is an inconsistency in never being sinless in this life, then we see there are three different gospels preached among Christians today. The Bible one without sinning, the double hearted one of part time sinfulness, and the fallen away one just as sinful as before.

The Bible gospel of Jesus Christ is to be made perfectly whole as a newborn babe, just like Jesus as a child, where by repenting and believing the gospel, all things are now of God, and there remains nothing of the devil in nor working through the purified convert to Jesus Christ. As Jesus says of Himself, so it is with His newborn babes of the Father.

Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Then there is the Christian gospel of incomplete conversion and life time double heartedness, where they are never made perfectly whole and without sin of Satan, but continue to sin less and less by partial repentance unto the end. They live sometimes sinfully and sometimes without sinning unto the end. Along with their command to gradually repent, they also can judge the faith of believers as being saving faith nor by their works. If there is too much resemblance to their past life of sinfulness, then they are judged as not having saving faith, so that their faith alone does not save them.

And then finally there is the fallen away Christian gospel of mental conversion only, where they now at least believe sinning is not ok and so much fun like the rest of the world However, they do not preach any kind of repentance necessary to ever being saved by their own faith alone. Their works can never be used to judge their salvation, as to whether their faith is saving faith or not. They are still as likely to be as sinful after their Christian conversion, as they ever were before. Afterall, not all sinners sin the same sins, nor spend the same amount of time sinning on earth.

 

[marks]

I know some 'Christians' say they haven't sinned since they got saved years ago. That's very dangerous. If someone doesn't confess his sin he may not be forgiven!

Luke 18
11 "The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: 'God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.12 'I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.' 13 "But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!' 14 "I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

When I find those who claim they are without sin, I know at least one of two things is true of them. Either they lack self-awareness, or they justify certain sins. Well, there is Door #3, that they are lying. I think some do that.

This is the hardship of failing to understand justification by grace through faith. You end up having to either lie to others, or lie to yourself.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The Bible says being sinless is being innocent and guiltless of sinning and transgressing the law of God.

Sin is anything that is not of faith. Sin is the good you know to do that you don't do. There is a lot more to it than just the letters on stone. So then, did you murder someone? I'm guessing not. But then, loving others the way Jesus does is a lot more then just not killing them. Lots more!

Much love!

 

[Jack]

When I find those who claim they are without sin, I know at least one of two things is true of them. Either they lack self-awareness, or they justify certain sins. Well, there is Door #3, that they are lying. I think some do that.

This is the hardship of failing to understand justification by grace through faith. You end up having to either lie to others, or lie to yourself.

Much love!

Amen!

 

[Ghada]

Many cannot resist the temptations of the flesh because they are not in the Spirit.

“Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” (Matthew 26:41, KJV)

It's always obvious and refreshing when the Bible is being taught. It's mostly just repeating the Bible verses themselves. It only gets confusing when people change the Bible around with their own thinking.

The Bible speaks of believers walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh. And so if we are sinning with the flesh, it's because we're not in the Spirit.

Some Christians teach sinning with the flesh, while also being in the Spirit. Confusion.

The motivation is obvious though. Some Christians want to believe we are in the Spirit and not condemned, even while walking after the flesh. While we can understand the motivation, we must not allow ourselves to give ourselves to such self-deceit.

If we do sin, we must always be willing to acknowledge our sinning openly as unjustified with God, and that we are in just as much need of His forgiveness and reconciliation as anyone else in the world doing the same things.

 

[Ghada]

Hello @Ghada,

I have to be honest and still admit there is times where anger is my issue,

Being angry is not a sin. Sinning out of anger is the sin. (Eph 4:26)

A common error among sincere Christians is going by what they think or what they are taught by others, about what sinning is, rather than sticking only with the Bible. God is does not at all hide, nor is He ever vague about what He says sin is.

It's not our calling as Christians to say what sin is, but only to say what God says sin is in the Bible. It's our calling not to do what God says sin is.

Jesus was very angry several times in the gospels, but without sinning. Even when whipping the merchandizers out of the temple. Twice.

and sometimes hatred can be my issue,

This is true, but once again the sin of hatred in the Bible is defined as wicked, only when covering it up while plotting revenge, as Joab did with Abner.

The Lord says by David, that He hates with a perfect hatred.

Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Anyone that does not hate iniquity and those working iniquity upon others, does not have the heart of Christ. What to do about it is the matter of faith with Jesus.

however the more one goes to the solution is to keep ones eye on Christ, the easier to deal with that issue can be mitigated.

Exactly. What to do about such things is seeking the wisdom of God. Of course some things don't need nor give much time for thought, such as seeing some man trying to rape a women.

The doctrine of Christ is not a guru fest on mountain tops completely separated from the real world. John the Baptist was called to the wilderness, but Jesus was right there in the middle of it all.

I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Satan's seat was in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus and Stephen. It will be again at the time of the last antichrist beast on earth.

To be authentic is an important trait when it comes to the Creator which one serves, as it says in the bible that He resist those who are proud, and gives grace to the humble.

That's it. The seed bears fruit that is sown in an honest and good heart. Honesty first, with God and ourselves. God prizes honesty from the heart above all things, because that is the only way Jesus can help us to repent and change into His image.

Therefore I will never be perfect in my flesh;

All our flesh is imperfect and mortal by nature. It's how Christ creates all natural flesh on earth like grass and dust, began with the first day of grass and herbs, and with the first day creating man and woman on earth. Jesus' own flesh was made of the seed of David, Abraham, Noah, Seth, and Adam. Jesus' flesh was no more sinful than Adam's, and Adam's flesh was no more righteous than any man's.

Flesh and blood is neither sinful nor righteous, but just natural. All righteousness and sin is spiritual in nature, because only creatures created by God in His image can think, intend, and imagine righteously or sinfully.

When the Bible speaks of corruptible flesh and blood, God is not saying the flesh is sinful in itself, but only that all flesh is as grass and the flower of grass and fades away naturally. The corruptibility is not of sin, but of natural mortality only.

although Christ with-in me can hold it back and through God and his chastening; there are times when my flesh desires it's on way,

This of course is the false Christian doctrine of being made by Christ today with sin nature or sin in the flesh. Christ doesn't make anything sinful in nature, and flesh and blood are neither nor.

When we cease trying to blame our body for things we lust to do with our bodies, then we are honest in our hearts, and Jesus can deliver us from our lusting for the flesh.

There are a number of Christian doctrines made specifically to justify Christians sinning with the flesh, this is one of the worst ones, because it accuses Christ the Maker of all things, of being the devil making man sinful at conception in the womb.

and when the thought comes up and it just happens - those are the times I must realize my weakness, and realize the strength of Christ, and the importance to continue to walk humbly before the Lord God Almighty.

Now this is the spiritual warfare that some Christians do not fight. Paul tells us we have power in Christ to cast down any and all tempting thoughts and fiery darts of the devil, and so bringing our thoughts, intents, and imaginations into obedience to Christ.

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Is everything in the world sinful? The trees, hills, and rivers? That is old Paganism where there are demons and evils spirits in natural things. Do eyeballs lust? Tissues of flesh? Is it proud just to live on earth? No. The proper doctrinal translation is: For all that is of the world, the lust for the flesh, and the lust with the eyes, and the pride by life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Simply put, by the power of Christ living within us, we don't have to take any thoughts of the devil to heart, so as to lust from the heart for the flesh and the world.

We fight that battle one day at a time sweet Jesus.

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

It's definitely died from where it use to be when I was younger it still comes up though from time to time. It's important to be honest and authentic with oneself otherwise we forget.

Your heart is honest enough, but your doctrine is off. What comes up from time to time is not sin, but is only tempting thoughts of your owld past and washed away sins, just like the rest of us. Without the devil reminding us, we'd forget about them just like God.

The god of this world is a spirit, even as God is a Spirit, and so speaks to the mind of man. How? Because also is made in the image of God is a spiritual being to hear the things of the spirit. The devil tells us his things of spiritual filth and wickedness, but God speaks to the heart of His charity, peace, and righteousness. The thoughts for old sin by by devil, are what we must cast down at the feet of Jesus, until the devil flees from us, for a season.

This is the spiritual warfare that believers can fight, who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh.

I.e. the devil whispering sinful thoughts into our mind is not sinning, nor is it lusting to sin, unless we allow him to keep whispering long enough. Just slap him in the face with the shield of faith and walk on with Jesus. Even as Abraham chased off every single fowl of the air, that came swooping in to eat of his sacrifice pieces cut for the Lord.

King Saul did not fight such tempting thoughts long enough, because of his fear about his own people, so that he disobeyed the Lord and then blamed it on Samuel.

And so remember: the flesh is not the problem, but our hearts. We fight the warfare in the spirit of our minds, not with our bodies. Jesus was tempted with the same exact thoughts of all men, including those of you and me, and that did not make the man of immortal flesh Jesus, a sinner.

Resisting the devil is proof of our love of God. The world welcomes the devil as an old friend, where temptation is an invitation for pleasuring in sin. Them that love righteousness to do it with Jesus, and hate iniquity to not do it with the devil, are the sons of God walking with the Son, even as He walked on the earth.

Stop worrying about the devil's thoughts for you old sins, and cease giving the devil more credit than he deserves, as though we sin because he helps us to remember them. Just shove them aside, shake them off, and so long as we don't lust and do them, then all is well with our souls, and we can rejoice in winning another battle with the Lord.

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

The only Christians teaching that imperfect thoughts are sin, are those looking to excuse themselves when sinning with the flesh. They condemn all Christians as sinners, so they might justify their own sin. They think there is safety in numbers. They think if they can convince themselves that all Christians are doing it like them, then that makes them justified with God. The opposite is true, that if all are doing it like them, then God will flood the whole earth to be rid of them.

All the best,
Matthew

Thank you, you too.

 

[Ghada]

The major inconsistency of never being sinless, along with all Christian teachings and gospels not agreeing with the Bible, is of course being inconsistent with the Bible.

Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin;

2 Peter 2:14 speaks of those believers that never cease from sinning and are never sinless.

The Christian doctrine of never being sinless in this life at any time, is not the gospel of Jesus Christ in the Bible.

It is inconsistent with Jesus commanding believers to sin no more and walk as He walked without sinning. It is also inconsistent with Jesus' first preaching to repent and believe His gospel.

In fact teaching Christians that we cannot cease from sinning, is in direct opposition to the gospel and doctrine of Jesus Christ.