I see an awful lot of instances of people telling others they are cultists, not Christians, or that they are lost. An awful lot of it. And it is diametrically opposed to forum rules.
Intolerance And Judgmentalism In A Christian Forum?
- Thread starter BarneyFife
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I understand what point you are trying to make. And what I was stressing is it's Christians period. In every aspect of where they come together to discuss the Bible.Because we're all on a Christian Forum. There are no churches, homes, schools, or businesses here.
It wouldn't bother me at all if this thread were closed. I've completely failed to make my point clear enough, and my intentions are being almost totally misunderstood. I suppose it will fizzle out soon enough, anyway. No worries.
It's a condunrum.
There is a "supposed" understanding;
...all Jews believe the same.
...all Christians believe the same.
* However, in the OT, God caused Divisions.
(Hebrews and Gentiles)
* In the NT, Jesus reiterated.
Luke 12:
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Further...
John 7:
[43] So there was a division among the people because of him.
Result...
Jews were divided amongst the Jews.
...Continues to this day.
...Some Jews ARE Baptized with the Holy Spirit, some are not.
Forward...
Christians are divided amongst Christians.
...Continues to this day.
...Some Christians ARE Baptized with the Holy Spirit, some are not.
Baptism...
Of water is a "sign" for others to "see".
OF proclamation is a "statement of philosophical wisdom" for others to "hear".
Jews require...a sign (seeing)
Greeks (Gentiles) seek...wisdom (speaking)
(1 Cor 1:22)
It's a bit Confusing.
Observing...
One...dipping ANOTHER in Water.
One...speaking FOR ANOTHER with words.
* YET...a True Baptism of the Holy Spirit, according TO Jesus' WAY...
* IS...the Individual...MAKING HIS OWN DECLARATION....according TO....the Individuals Belief of the Thoughts IN his "natural spirit", IN his "natural heart".
(The Caveat Requirement "IF" / "THEN")
Romans 10:
[9] That IF thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, AND shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, (then) thou shalt be saved.
[10] For (because) with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
* On the FLIP SIDE...
*What "IF" the person did not believe in their heart?
*What "IF" the person did not confess with their mouth?
*What "IF" the person believes they ARE baptized because someone else spoke FOR THEM?
*What "IF" thereafter at some point in time;
The "supposed" Baptized person, with HIS MOUTH declares, "he does not believe or he never believed"?
* WAS HE EVER TRULY BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, "because" ANOTHER DECLARED IT WAS SO?
* Does Scripture EVER teach An Example OF ANY man having "RECEIVED" the Baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT, and "THEN" "changing the NEW creation "BACK" into his OLD creation"?
* "some" Christians preach a man CAN BE CONVERTED, then LOSE their Salvation.
* "some" Christians preach a man Who HAS RECEIVED the Holy Spirit, can NEVER LOSE their Salvation.
* A great Division IS among Jews.
* A great Division IS among men calling themselves "Christians".
Sure enough...Divided Christians, discuss, debate, speak from emotions that flare....
Bottom Line IS:
An Individual WHO HAS RECEIVED the Baptism of the Holy Spirit...
IS EXPRESSLY "BY" WHAT the "INDIVIDUAL" BELIEVES "IN" his OWN HEART, and "the "INDIVIDUAL" confesses.
(Rituals performed by men, IS NOT JESUS" taught WAY of "RECEIVING" the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.)
YET, some men DO teach and preach, PRECISELY, (rituals performed by one man FOR another), IS HOW, to receive, the Baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT.
AND, some men DO teach and preach,
PRECISELY, (that men who HAVE received the Baptism OF the Holy Spirit....)
ARE "subject to" LOSING their Salvation, "IF" they do NOT 'do' Works...TO KEEP their Salvation.
Again... Scripture TEACHES...
Receiving Baptism "OF THE HOLY SPIRIT"...
"IS the POWER of the Holy Spirit, IN the man, AND Gods POWER "IN" that man, "KEEPS that individual SAVED", AND the Lord God "WITH" that individual.....FOREVER.
Greater is His that is IN you, than he that is in the World.
That's a really good point, being able to see ourselves well enough to know when we're having some knee-jerk reaction, digging in our heels, or some such thing. Those who don't like looking at themselves, who are in the habit of self-justifying can easily miss when the flesh takes over. The desire to "win", to be seen "more spiritual", avoidance of being perceived "unrighteous". Fear of other people's opinions, or the need to bolster one's own self image, these can be hidden motivators.
We need to stay soft hearted, and willing to be wronged.
Amen!
Much love!
WADR, I've never encountered an offline Bible discussion situation where Christians were frequently calling into question other Christians' standing with God, intelligence, and even sanity to their face. Except for one individual who was fairly quickly encouraged to fellowship elsewhere. Spiritual bullying is a problem on most online Christian discussion platforms. And I believe all of this is planting a seed that will eventually yield very bitter fruit. Lots and lots of prayer is needed. That said, I believe Forum staff are doing everything they can to manage behavior.
I suppose it is normal to just say "Oh well, you have to expect this kind of thing." And, of course, it is common to hear people say that people should just have thicker skin.
However, while I realize there are a few Bible verses that declare there will be division and heresies, there are also these Scriptures to consider:
1 Corinthians 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree together, so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be united in mind and conviction.
2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brothers, rejoice! Aim for perfect harmony, encourage one another, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.
Philippians 2:2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being united in spirit and purpose.
Philippians 2:3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or empty pride, but in humility consider others more important than yourselves.
Romans 14:19 So then, let us pursue what leads to peace and to mutual edification.
John 17:23 I in them and You in Me--that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.
Psalm 133:1 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is when brothers live in harmony!
Ephesians 4:2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love,
Ephesians 4:3 and with diligence to preserve the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.
Romans 12:16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but enjoy the company of the lowly. Do not be conceited.
Ephesians 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has torn down the dividing wall of hostility
I find the same thing, online behavior is much different from offline behavior. People online can feel a sense of freedom in their anonymity that they don't feel in person. In person, there is more accountability, and therefore more buttoned up behavior.
And I agree, bitter seeds with bitter fruits, as those who allow themselves to just write whatever garbage they want are laying down those neural pathways that will be guiding them along those same ways in the time to come. It's an unwise choice, but I guess they think they can play with fire and not get burned.
Much love!
I find "some" people online, speak FOR others...
Saying, you think this, you believe this, (which you neither think or believe) and then make a Negative remark, and then want you to defend what they have said FOR you.
Gaslighting.
Well having personal experience with both I can say that there is some serious need for repentance in the church.
1 Peter 4 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁶ Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
¹⁷ For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
¹⁸ And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
What is most of the arguments based on in Christian Forums?
Is it because of differences of beliefs?
Differences of interpretation of scripture?
Where do members get their info and beliefs and so forth from?
Is it not their church?
So everyone comes here and shares their beliefs and someone debates them over it and that member gets angry and then you get hateful responses.
As I seem to recall you have responded to me with a bit of anger and sarcasm have you not @BarnyFife ?
But did we resolve it? I think so...
Desire Of All Nations
Well-Known Member
There is literally no excuse as to why all professing Christian churches don't start from the same position though, considering all of them claim to worship the same God and get their beliefs from the same book. Everybody who truly believes what God said in the Bible starts at the same place.
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Just imagine if there was a "hate" button. The forum would be untenable.
The issue is where people are believing from within themselves. Religions originate from the shallow outer man where every other preference derives from. The survival mechanism of the outer man is such that it will sacrifice the lives of others for its own benefit. But real membership to the church of Christ is only extended to the inner man who is weak and defenseless in this world. That is the part of us that is to be empowered by Christ. The outer man is meant to be dealt with by the power of the cross.
As long as people continue to trust in their own abilities and lean on their own understanding the inner man will remain under the power of the flesh.
Jesus came to set us free...inwardly. The power of the flesh is in the outer man. It is only with the inner man that we are allowed to become one with the Lord. It is by His strengthening grace that the inner man is able to be set free from the influence of the carnal mind of the outer man.
So then who will be our covering? Will we humble ourselves under the mighty covering of God in His righteousness? or will we pretend to be covered by God's righteousness even as we trust our outer man to protect us and project his religious prejudices and preferences on others?
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JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
Didn't you just call me Pope John Paul in another thread, isn't that a form of persecution against Catholics?
Perhaps a little hatred towards them?
Not really. Just a little fun. Why is it assumed that there is hatred for Catholics (the victims of false teaching) rather than hatred for false doctrine (which Jesus also hates)? There is no hatred for Catholics on Christian forums.
JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
I’ll take it as a little fun, we do need to have a little fun to relieve stress, no offense taken, my apologies if I took it the wrong way. I agree with the victims of false teaching part.
Have a blessed day Enoch111.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The Bible verse that sticks in my mind is the one about putting up with each other for Christ's sake. Colossians 3:13
I fear many Christians are completely intolerant about the tolerance limits others have. Sure, they are nice about not tolerating the human personality that is retained after an encounter with the Holy Spirit but they quickly disengage. Political abandonment is a frequent outcome of such intolerance, leaving those weak in the faith to fend for themselves against the wolves of the world rather than be strengthened by the brethren.
I had a friend who could not tolerate me venting the anger I had at someone else. The 30-year friendship died on the spot. Neither one of us wanted each other in our lives. If he cannot support me during my trials and tribulations and how I actually think and feel about, he is of no use to me. If he cannot be there for me during the bad times, I don't want him during the good times.
My church has a saying; "Do life together." Like all Biblical covenants, it is unconditional. A committed relationship is not only when the person is living up to another's expectations all the time.
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