Is believing in the trinity necessary to be a christian?

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

One of the most misunderstood ideas in the Bible concerns the teaching about the Trinity. Although Christians say that they believe in one God, they are constantly accused of polytheism (worshiping at least three gods).

The Bible do not teach that there are three Gods; neither do they teach that God wears three different masks while acting out the drama of history. What the Bible does teach is stated in the doctrine of the Trinity as: there is one God who has revealed Himself in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and these three persons are the one God.
Although this is difficult to comprehend, it is nevertheless what the Bible tells us, and is the closest the finite mind can come to explaining the infinite mystery of the infinite God, when considering the biblical statements about God’s being.
The Bible teaches that there is one God and only one God: “Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one!” (Deuteronomy 6:4, NASB). “There is one God” (I Timothy 2:5, KJV). “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me’” (Isaiah 44:6, NASB).
However, even though God is one in His essential being or nature, He is also three persons. “Let us make man in our image” (Genesis 1:26, KJV). “God said, ‘Behold, the man has become like one of us’” (Genesis 3:22, RSV).
God’s plural nature is alluded to here, for He could not be talking to angels in these instances, because angels could not and did not help God create. The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ, not the angels, created all things (I John 1:3; Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:2).
In addition to speaking of God as one, and alluding to a plurality of God’s being, the Scriptures are quite specific as to naming God in terms of three persons. There is a person whom the Bible calls the Father, and the Father is designated as God the Father (Galatians 1:1).
The Bible talks about a person named Jesus, or the Son, or the Word, also called God. “The Word was God… ” (John 1:1, KJV). Jesus was “also calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God” (John 5:18, NASB).
There is a third person mentioned in the Scriptures called the Holy Spirit, and this person—different from the Father and the Son—is also called God (“Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit?… You have not lied to men but to God” (Acts 5:3, 4, RSV).

The facts of the biblical teaching are these: There is one God. This one God has a plural nature. This one God is called the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, all distinct personalities, all designated God. We are therefore led to the conclusion that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God, the doctrine of the Trinity.

What's a personality? As defined in the trinity concept?

 

[ChristianJuggarnaut]

JB,

1. it is not a biblical doctrine, the concept of the trinity as defined is not a biblical word or a biblical definition.

2. The early church were modalists as has been mentioned. Tetullian admitted as much. I can find the reference if you need it.

3. Jesus was the also the son of Mary who was not eternal. Jesus is indeed eternal as the one and only God. God was manifested in the flesh at the incarnation. This is when the sonship began. The thought the logos of Christ had been determined from the foundation of the world. The concept is that you need to understand that Jesus is the one and only God. There are not three different persons. The fullness of the Godhead is in Jesus (father, son and holy ghost) no separation, distinction in manifestation only.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

JB,

1. it is not a biblical doctrine, the concept of the trinity as defined is not a biblical word or a biblical definition.

2. The early church were modalists as has been mentioned. Tetullian admitted as much. I can find the reference if you need it.

3. Jesus was the also the son of Mary who was not eternal. Jesus is indeed eternal as the one and only God. God was manifested in the flesh at the incarnation. This is when the sonship began. The thought the logos of Christ had been determined from the foundation of the world. The concept is that you need to understand that Jesus is the one and only God. There are not three different persons. The fullness of the Godhead is in Jesus (father, son and holy ghost) no separation, distinction in manifestation only.

Thanks for the reply. I think the bottom line is as Jesus stated: Who do the people say I AM. If God the father has made this clear to us then we will not only see Jesus as a sinless man but God himself. i.e Emmanuel

let us all remember that even a simple man can understand/know this if God the father has revealed Christ to him. After all it's about knowing Christ Jesus and him knowing us that defines us from others, who ONLY know about him but have never had an intimate connection with the LORD himself.

Everything else is mental gymnastics and if it's about that then NO-ONE has a chance.



At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Mathew 11: 25-30

 

[Axehead]

There is no eternal son. How can there be? God was manifested in the flesh. The fullness of the Godhead resides in Jesus Christ. He is God. He is the Holy Ghost.

No eternal Son?

John 17:5 KJV And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus had glory WITH the Father NOT AS the Father.

Heb_10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

 

[aspen]

Well, knowing doctrine does not save you; however, the doctrine of the Trinity is foundational to Christianity. The only critical doctrine that separates Mormonism from Christianity, for example is the doctrine of the Trinity. So, although salvation is not restricted to people who believe in the Trinity - rejecting it places you outside Christian orthodoxy.

 

[ChristianJuggarnaut]

Axehead,

So you believe that Jesus is not the Father? He said He was. John 8:24-27

Do a search on the 'Right hand of God" and see how many times it is mentioned in scripture and look at the context honestly.

How do you explain the contradictions between the trinity definition and biblical principles.

How can there be a son without Mary? Is she eternal?

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Axehead,

So you believe that Jesus is not the Father? He said He was. John 8:24-27

Do a search on the 'Right hand of God" and see how many times it is mentioned in scripture and look at the context honestly.

How do you explain the contradictions between the trinity definition and biblical principles.

How can there be a son without Mary? Is she eternal?

Interesting post, I look forward to the responses. But check that scripture reference again.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Why is believing in the trinity crucial to one's salvation?

Flee from anyone who tries to impose that requirement on you.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the nations, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 1 Corinthians 13:12.

No eternal Son?

No. The son did not exist until he was born through Mary. The logos preexisted the son and became the son. The term son merely refers to his manifestation as flesh.

 

[ChristianJuggarnaut]

He rose,

We are in agreement.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

A thorough reading of Isaiah puts modalism in the dirt. The Trinity became doctrine because their simply is no way to harmonize anything different.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

A thorough reading of Isaiah puts modalism in the dirt. The Trinity became doctrine because their simply is no way to harmonize anything different.

There are alternatives to modalism. Trinitarians misrepresent this issue continually.

 

[ChristianJuggarnaut]

"The trinity became doctrine....."

Yes, this much is accurate.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

Really, the trinity makes no sense to anyone. I am marveled at this
and wondered how people could be so passionate about something that is so
obviously incorrect. I just put it down to doctrine of demons and realize
that it is the demons that energize this heresy. People that are caught
in this error simply cannot see differently because of the demonic nature of
it. Coming to a knowledge of the truth about the trinity is more about deliverance
from fear than teaching. Why is this so?
It is because of the cost involved in knowing the truth. Trinitarianism is a bully doctrine. You must believe it or else (in most Christian
circles.) Some even go so far as to
equate trinitarianism with salvation.

Shunning is a very coercive force within many denominations and when
someone starts to question the three in one doctrine they are let know that
doing so will have consequences. Questioning
the trinity or believing something else, even if it is more accurate to the
word, is not merely an intellectual exercise but a choice between being part of
their current group or being kicked out.
To many, this is too high a price to pay.

And really, most should not have to pay this price because those who are mature in God
should have already paid it.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Flee from anyone who tries to impose that requirement on you.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the nations, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 1 Corinthians 13:12.


No. The son did not exist until he was born through Mary. The logos preexisted the son and became the son. The term son merely refers to his manifestation as flesh.

AGREE.

Dear All,

Really, the trinity makes no sense to anyone. I am marveled at this
and wondered how people could be so passionate about something that is so
obviously incorrect. I just put it down to doctrine of demons and realize
that it is the demons that energize this heresy. People that are caught
in this error simply cannot see differently because of the demonic nature of
it. Coming to a knowledge of the truth about the trinity is more about deliverance
from fear than teaching. Why is this so?
It is because of the cost involved in knowing the truth. Trinitarianism is a bully doctrine. You must believe it or else (in most Christian
circles.) Some even go so far as to
equate trinitarianism with salvation.

Shunning is a very coercive force within many denominations and when
someone starts to question the three in one doctrine they are let know that
doing so will have consequences. Questioning
the trinity or believing something else, even if it is more accurate to the
word, is not merely an intellectual exercise but a choice between being part of
their current group or being kicked out.
To many, this is too high a price to pay.

And really, most should not have to pay this price because those who are mature in God
should have already paid it.

Blessings,

Justin

Ok then. Who or what is the Holy spirit. Then explain to me the divinity of Christ.When did Jesus become God? Also show me that God the father is or isn't separate from Christ himself. Unless Jesus was talking to himself or addressing a phantom. Or was it he was having a schizophrenic break, when he heard his fathers voice from heaven.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Ok then. Who or what is the Holy spirit. Then explain to me the divinity of Christ.When did Jesus become God? Also show me that God the father is or isn't separate from Christ himself. Unless Jesus was talking to himself or addressing a phantom. Or was it he was having a schizophrenic break, when he heard his fathers voice from heaven.

If I may... Jesus never became GOD; he always has been GOD. He is the image, or form, of the invisible GOD, and preexisted the son as the logos. Jesus isn't the father because he is the son, but the two are one. Your body is not your soul, but the two are one. Have you never in your life talked with yourself?

Concerning the holy spirit, it is certainly not a person for it is described throughout scripture as a woman, a wind, a breath, a dove, a man, an it, and lamps of fire.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

If I may... Jesus never became GOD; he always has been GOD. He is the image, or form, of the invisible GOD, and preexisted the son as the logos. Jesus isn't the father because he is the son, but the two are one. Your body is not your soul, but the two are one. Have you never in your life talked with yourself?

Concerning the holy spirit, it is certainly not a person for it is described throughout scripture as a woman, a wind, a breath, a dove, a man, an it, and lamps of fire.

Thanks for the reply, but I'm looking forward to Justin Mangonel interpretation.

In regards to your last paragraph, do you care to prove your point by providing all scriptures that refer to the HOLY SPIRIT and in particular those that Jesus himself has something to say on the topic.

Are you a Jehovah's witness, by chance?

 

[Angelina]

It does not really matter whether you believe in the Trinity or not. What truly matters is if you believe in Jesus and have received him as Lord of your life and your savior. God reveals himself to you as you get to know and understand him through his word and the Holy Spirit that Jesus sends into our hearts crying "Abba Father"

Blessings!

 

[Rex]

AGREE.




Ok then. Who or what is the Holy spirit. Then explain to me the divinity of Christ.When did Jesus become God?

JB you can look over the quotes I gathered from Justin, while you wait He certainly doesn't believe in the virgin birth. Conception by the HS.

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17036-is-the-emphasis-on-teaching-the-word-damming-our-souls/page-2#entry179028

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

It does not really matter whether you believe in the Trinity or not. What truly matters is if you believe in Jesus and have received him as Lord of your life and your savior. God reveals himself to you as you get to know and understand him through his word and the Holy Spirit that Jesus sends into our hearts crying "Abba Father"

Blessings!

SHALOM!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

In regards to your last paragraph, do you care to prove your point by providing all scriptures that refer to the HOLY SPIRIT and in particular ones that Jesus himself has something to say on the topic.

Are you a Jehovah's witness, by chance?

I don't care to prove anything, but I will indirectly reference the verses I referred to and you can make up your own mind.
The proverbs refer to wisdom as a woman. Knowledge and understanding are her sisters.
Isaiah 11:1 reveals that the holy spirit consists of 7 spirits of which three are wisdom, understanding and knowledge. I believe 2 or 3 more of the seven also have a Hebrew female gender.
Revelation describes the holy spirit as 7 lamps before the thrown.
Zechariah describes the 7 spirits as seven eyes.
The holy spirit in the NT appears in both the masculine and neuter genders.
The holy spirit descended upon Jesus as a dove.

That's all I can remember at the moment.

No, not a JW.