Is Christ now only a spirt or still a resurrected man

[Peanut]

Wow, Peanut, you obviously don't like anyone disagreeing with you!!
Breath deeply...it's good for you.

Please don't keep telling me what I don't understand about the scriptures.
It changes nothing.


...you are entitled to your opinion...because that is what it is...I don't have to agree.

*As I already said...we will just have to agree to differ on it.

( If we can't both disagree agreeably, then we aren't very mature. )

I teach deep breathing techniques in a Bible study group I've been a member of for some time. How does it work for you?
The peace of Christ in the believer tells us we are to share among one another in the spirit of love. And also that the Bible is there for learning, correction, etc....
If someone who is wrong about scripture doesn't know that verse, and they can't accept their view of scripture is in error, they're not aligned with scriptural teachings.

Using catty remarks, making accusations, lobbing snarky remarks like breathe, isn't anything that shows you're correct in your view. It shows you love to be offensive. That isn't mature. If you were into disagreeing agreeably you wouldn't have resorted to slights right off the bat.

God Bless.
I don't have time for your tactics.

 

[Peanut]

It is obvious that there are some people who are still veiled to the correct understandings of God's word and no matter what evidences are brought to their attention from God's word it is simply denied or asserted to not hold the meaning that God has clearly meant for it. In the passage below is a prophecy from God to HIS PEOPLE and he specifically states that he will reform their bodies and he will put their life back into those bodies and that they shall live because God will put his spirit in their bodies as well. This was an old testament prophecy BTW.
In the new testament the entire concept of the Holy spirit being added to the believer as a helper to them brought clarity to the meaning of the old testament prophecy and it clarified who God meant by "O my people". God's people would be comprised of both Jew and gentile and the gentiles would be those grafted into Israel to become part of the original church created by God.


Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, 2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.
4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

Notice that God states "and I shall place you in your own land". This describes the second Adam, just as the first Adam was placed into eden so will the second Adam be placed on the new (redeemed) earth. In that time will this prophecy be fulfilled;

Isaiah 11:6The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. 9They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Those that think Christ taught as other than what he stated he taught are far more a devil than liars brother.
I'm going to leave this community. It is just not acceptable that a handful of persons here resort to insults when trying to discuss the teachings of our Lord who always taught with Love.
Perhaps if they read the scriptures long enough as they make the effort to attack persons here who know the scriptures they'll fall into Love. And change their current tactics. Speaking hate while teaching Jesus just doesn't cut it.

God be with his people.

 

[bbyrd009]

It is obvious that there are some people who are still veiled to the correct understandings

Scripture tells us that "all are deceived"

of God's word

Scripture is not God's Word though, so you become one of the people you are condemning, with all due respect.

and no matter what evidences are brought to their attention from God's word it is simply denied

like you are in denial about God's Word? Tell us about it

or asserted to not hold the meaning that God has clearly meant for it.

clearly meant lol, good one.

I did like the rest of the post though, just doxxing ya

 

[KBCid]

Scripture tells us that "all are deceived"
Scripture is not God's Word though, so you become one of the people you are condemning, with all due respect.
like you are in denial about God's Word? Tell us about it
clearly meant lol, good one.
I did like the rest of the post though, just doxxing ya

If all are deceived then none are saved.
The words written in a translation are not really God's word per se which is why it is best to learn to read ancient Hebrew. I would also say that if you know the truth and don't try to correct error when you see it that you are not living according to Christ's or the disciples examples.
I am in no denial about God's word. In many cases it comes down to denial of interpretation.
Some translational scriptures state things in a very clear manner and they are still denied because of the traditions of man that have been accepted.

 

[bbyrd009]

If all are deceived then none are saved.

imo "saved" is a vastly misunderstood concept anyway, as long as the supposed payoff is only realized after one dies.

I would also say that if you know the truth

ah; imo the problem lies in someone who believes they know "the truth," when Scripture plainly states that they do not

and don't try to correct error when you see it that you are not living according to Christ's or the disciples examples.

i'm doing my best; how is it working out for you so far?

I am in no denial about God's word.

so you say, yes. wish i could say the same

Some translational scriptures state things in a very clear manner

ah; you would have to square this with "The words written in a translation are not really God's word" before i could really get what you are saying, i guess. Maybe God expects all seekers to learn ancient Hebrew, maybe. But i doubt it

 

[Pisteuo]

Those that think Christ taught as other than what he stated he taught are far more a devil than liars brother.
I'm going to leave this community. It is just not acceptable that a handful of persons here resort to insults when trying to discuss the teachings of our Lord who always taught with Love.
Perhaps if they read the scriptures long enough as they make the effort to attack persons here who know the scriptures they'll fall into Love. And change their current tactics. Speaking hate while teaching Jesus just doesn't cut it.

God be with his people.

I am new here and don't know who you are specifically speaking of. But I hope you don't leave. I've read many of your posts and don't agree with a lot of things the way you say them. Yet your input is valuable to me. This place ( compared to a lot of other forums) is mild at most. I always remember this when I think of leaving, the bible tells us "resist the devil and he will flee from you", not "flee from the devil". This seems simple and maybe out of context for this situation, idk. But you are part of the reason I'm here. So rethink leaving if you will. God bless your decision.

 

[bbyrd009]

 

[KBCid]

imo "saved" is a vastly misunderstood concept anyway, as long as the supposed payoff is only realized after one dies. ah; imo the problem lies in someone who believes they know "the truth," when Scripture plainly states that they do not
i'm doing my best; how is it working out for you so far?
so you say, yes. wish i could say the same

How often do I say that you need to pray for understanding or something with the same intent? I also always point out where possible understandings of men and call them that. The part you haven't quite picked-up on yet is that I am not asking anyone to follow my teachings / assertions because then they would be in the same boat if they were previously listening to other teachings of men. I am not here to convince anyone about what the truth is since they should get everything from those who were sent to do that specific job. 11 men from the new testament were sent to spread the truth to the whole world and many wrote their words down to pass it on to accomplish that goal. So, you can read the old testament Hebrew yourself and try to gain understanding of that first and then work with the oldest writings of the new testament. My current work is with ancient Hebrew.

ah; you would have to square this with "The words written in a translation are not really God's word" before i could really get what you are saying, i guess. Maybe God expects all seekers to learn ancient Hebrew, maybe. But i doubt it

This is where I have looked at the original text and its possible translations and found that you virtually cannot come out with any different meaning than the original meant. if you are truly interested in what God means in his original word there are some things you can peruse that can help on that front. I have found that a good introduction can be found in The Mechanical Translation of Genesis by Jeff A. Benner. This mechanical translation helps one to see just what translators have to go through as they convert from one language to another. The book mentioned is a free Ebook and you can look it up under the name I gave and here is an example of what it contains;


The Mechanical Translation of Genesis
Chapter 1
(Genesis 1:1)
1:1
בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָּא אֱלֹהִׁים אֵת הַשָּמַיִׁם וְּאֵת הָּאָרֶץ
in~ Summit he~ did~ Fatten “Elohiym[Powers]” At the~ Sky~ s2 and~ At the~ Land

in the summit “Elohiym [Powers]” fattened the sky and the land,

So, you can see the original Hebrew text then under that is the mechanical word for word conversion and then under that the initial translation to English sentence structure.
I will bet you have never read Genesis 1:1 like that. Now compare it with what most of us see in common translations;

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Does the final translation say what the Hebrew meant?

Edit; how does this Jewish translation square with the two above;
Gen 1:1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8165/jewish/Chapter-1.htm

 

[KBCid]

Yes! Ezekiel was told to prophesy to dry bones. But I am not sure I agree with the argument of that the parables you listed are the only parables in His word.

I didn't see anything stand out as missing but it was a quick perusal and the bottom line intent was to show that not everything Christ taught was in parable form. If by chance there is something missing from the list I am sure it would be no great hardship to add more to the list but in the end as I showed Christ taught the meanings of parables to them so, we can all be quite sure that Christ did not teach the meaning of a parable by way of another parable.

In case you have never considered it, and maybe you don't care to: author comes from the word authority: HE is the author and finisher of our faith. The Judge...our Deliverer. discipline to disciple.
How can we pin an Almighty God's language down and contain it neatly within a box...when His Word runs deeper than any man can understand...apart from the Sprit??!

I have studied word origins as a matter of course in understanding ancient Hebrew and you do find some neat ways our current English words came into existence. You do have a point when considering meaning depth for God's word. What you may find is that there are more than just 2 levels of meaning. I have found this as I have had my understanding opened.

 

[KBCid]

Youtube video

The world is not going to change for the better until Christ comes and removes the evil from it. In fact the world will get much worse as it is written;

Matt 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

See it is prophesied that at the end Christ will actually have to come back earlier than he should otherwise there would be no one left to save alive.
on another note what Sabbath day is being spoken of in those verses? Saturday or sunday?

Cardinal James Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (Ayers Publishing, 1978): 108:
But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.

The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957): 50:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why Do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.

Chancellor Albert Smith for Cardinal of Baltimore Archdiocese, letter dated February 10, 1920:
If Protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship God on the Sabbath day by God is Saturday. In keeping the Sunday, they are following a law of the Catholic Church.

Stephen Keenan, Catholic—Doctrinal Catechism 3rd Edition: 174:
Question: Have you any other way of proving the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her, she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the 1st day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the 7th day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
Boasts of the Roman Church about Sunday

 

[bbyrd009]

The world is not going to change for the better until Christ comes and removes the evil from it.

oh, i dunno; a couple hundred years ago we were burning "witches" at the stake. I think we are doing ok. Would you prefer to live in 1717?

See it is prophesied that at the end Christ will actually have to come back earlier than he should otherwise there would be no one left to save alive.

or at least that Christ intervened in the end of the Roman Empire, yes. Or that those days were "shortened" somehow, iow.

on another note what Sabbath day is being spoken of in those verses? Saturday or sunday?

pretty sure that would be Saturday. Is there a connection?

 

[KBCid]

oh, i dunno; a couple hundred years ago we were burning "witches" at the stake. I think we are doing ok. Would you prefer to live in 1717?

The world today is nearing the point where God's command to fill the world is being realized. It is also a time where people could and are actually destroying the earth. Most don't realize this small point in revelation but it prophesied about those who destroy the earth;

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

What is significant about this is that when it was written there was no possible way man could actually destroy the earth or any of its systems that were setup by God. It is only now within the past few hundred yrs that we are seeing what overpopulation and unnatural chemicals and such are depleting and destroying the natural environment.

or at least that Christ intervened in the end of the Roman Empire, yes. Or that those days were "shortened" somehow, iow.
pretty sure that would be Saturday. Is there a connection?

Well no has seen Christ return and the world hasn't ended so I'm quite certain that the prophesied end didn't come with the roman empires end.
There is of course a connection to the Sabbath day. You should look into it.

 

[KBCid]

Those that think Christ taught as other than what he stated he taught are far more a devil than liars brother.

The problem always seems to come down to interpretation. When you have a multitude of verses that show with hard proof that things are not what you assert they are then there is indeed a problem and requires that you research the subject just as God told us too.
As I showed you plainly in a single post if Christ only spoke in parables then none of the disciples would have a clue to this day what they meant, so, as they wrote in the gospels, Christ taught them what the parables meant which means that the scripture you feel describes Christ's teaching methods while he lived are either a lie put into the biblical text or a misinterpretation. I have chosen to go with misinterpretation.
The facts will remain the same no matter where you go. You have scriptures that appear to be in direct conflict so you should simply do the research and not let any teachings from any worldly source be a guide.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

 

[bbyrd009]

The world today is nearing the point where God's command to fill the world is being realized.

do you think things were better in the recent past?

 

[bbyrd009]

It is also a time where people could and are actually destroying the earth. Most don't realize this small point in revelation but it prophesied about those who destroy the earth;

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

What is significant about this is that when it was written there was no possible way man could actually destroy the earth or any of its systems that were setup by God. It is only now within the past few hundred yrs that we are seeing what overpopulation and unnatural chemicals and such are depleting and destroying the natural environment.

i suggest that it is in someone's interest to market calamity to you, and our impact might be vastly overrated. You cite overpop, but estimates of what pop the earth could actually support go as high as 70 billion.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well no has seen Christ return and the world hasn't ended so I'm quite certain that the prophesied end didn't come with the roman empires end.

sure it did; for millions of people, prolly. the same way it will end for us. particularly because we live in an empire in decline too, but that passage is surely applicable across ages. it is spiritual truth distilled to an essence. you can tell because nobody agrees what it is really saying.

 

[bbyrd009]

There is of course a connection to the Sabbath day. You should look into it.

i'm not clear enough on the connection to Sabbath and what to even try yet lol

 

[KBCid]

do you think things were better in the recent past?

the entire past has gone through ups and downs. We have uncovered the oldest city on record as having indoor plumbing and underground sewer. So, yes there have been both good and bad but nothing will be as bad as when our food supply and fresh water supply cannot support the population.

US Groundwater Declines More Widespread Than Commonly Thought
Groundwater levels are dropping across a much wider swath of the United States than is generally discussed, according to a new report from the Columbia Water Center.
In addition to confirming alarming depletion in well-known hot spots such as the Great Plains and Central California, the study identifies a number of other regions, including the lower Mississippi, along the Eastern Seaboard and in the Southeast where water tables are falling just as rapidly. Overall, the report concludes, between 1949 and 2009 groundwater levels declined throughout much of the continental U.S., suggesting that the nation’s long-term pattern of groundwater use is broadly unsustainable.
US Groundwater Declines More Widespread Than Commonly Thought

 

[KBCid]

sure it did; for millions of people, prolly. the same way it will end for us. particularly because we live in an empire in decline too, but that passage is surely applicable across ages. it is spiritual truth distilled to an essence. you can tell because nobody agrees what it is really saying.

So you believe Christ already came and did his part and then left allowing everything to decline back?

 

[KBCid]

i suggest that it is in someone's interest to market calamity to you, and our impact might be vastly overrated. You cite overpop, but estimates of what pop the earth could actually support go as high as 70 billion.

The news markets calamity to everyone daily. I engineer systems that help to keep civilized life stable. I have had years to see how quickly current systems become outdated and that available supplies vs. demand are separating quickly. If as you think the earth can support 70 billion then you are not tied into the reality of starving peoples as well as the fresh water problems. A prime example of water depletion is knowing how far one must penetrate the earth to reach the water table now as compared to 50 yrs ago. I see these things first hand. Our population from 50 yrs ago was already depleting the water table which means we were already past a stable limit for the population verses water use.