Is Hell worse for Some?

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David kilmer

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No, I did not say the Lord was not true, I said YOU were not true, that YOU were the one who was in error. By your saying that the Lord Jesus is the Truth and only speaks the truth and then turning around and ascribing to our Lord Satan’s lie (viz. “Thou shall surely not die”, Gen 3:4) YOU are in essence accusing him of teaching the same thing, and in so doing YOU dishonor him.



As I stated before it is most apparent that YOU have ALREADY fallen for this particular delusion as you have conceded to Satan’s lie. Those who are deceived generally have little idea that they have been deceived, and honestly believe what they hold is true despite all the evidences to the contrary. How soon they have forgotten who exactly it is they are dealing with, our Adversary is not referred to as the Master Deceiver for nothing he is very proficient in making error to appear as truth and at the same time causing the truth to appear as error.



I have no fear in stating my beliefs. You do understand there are blog posts on this site, right? I do most of my posting there as I believe this particular format allows for a more comprehensive and in-depth explanation of the subject. I do this for two reasons, one because I have been accused of being to verbose in my comments and two for the sake of those who are truly hungering and thirsting for understanding, for whom a quick short off the cuff comment or answer is not sufficient. With allowances being made for those who have trouble with their eyes and can’t read long post I tend to restrict my comments on the discussion forum and stick mostly to posting on the blog.

If you had taken the time to check out my blog posts, specifically the index you would have noted that I have pretty much covered most of my beliefs on several key doctrines, I have nothing to hide.

I will address your last statement in my next post.
Well too much of false accusing is sib. Too much sending people to hell is bad. Too much screwing over people is wrong and bad. All have sins and twisting things sinners do is wrong. Now I may have the kingdom of God but it's for all who wanna be there. And it's starting to seem like this mad man mission is getting out of hand. Why do people repent and like their maker as God and get falsely accused and judged for it? Life is important and so is freewill. I abscribed to Satan? I had to go to him. he opened my lust further for paganism
 
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David kilmer

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Should I ascribe to Satan, harvest? I had no other options but to go to Jesus while I was different before. Meaning sinner.
 

David kilmer

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We dishonor him? Well I had to go to Satan. No better choice at the time.
 

David kilmer

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We don't go to hell if we define how we live or believe in God or Jesus. Both are correct. Jesus is good for many, but self definition is better sometimes if not much more. Belief in the creator too is good.
 

David kilmer

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It's better as it's You. On the other hand some people need guidance either way.
 

David kilmer

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No, I did not say the Lord was not true, I said YOU were not true, that YOU were the one who was in error. By your saying that the Lord Jesus is the Truth and only speaks the truth and then turning around and ascribing to our Lord Satan’s lie (viz. “Thou shall surely not die”, Gen 3:4) YOU are in essence accusing him of teaching the same thing, and in so doing YOU dishonor him.



As I stated before it is most apparent that YOU have ALREADY fallen for this particular delusion as you have conceded to Satan’s lie. Those who are deceived generally have little idea that they have been deceived, and honestly believe what they hold is true despite all the evidences to the contrary. How soon they have forgotten who exactly it is they are dealing with, our Adversary is not referred to as the Master Deceiver for nothing he is very proficient in making error to appear as truth and at the same time causing the truth to appear as error.



I have no fear in stating my beliefs. You do understand there are blog posts on this site, right? I do most of my posting there as I believe this particular format allows for a more comprehensive and in-depth explanation of the subject. I do this for two reasons, one because I have been accused of being to verbose in my comments and two for the sake of those who are truly hungering and thirsting for understanding, for whom a quick short off the cuff comment or answer is not sufficient. With allowances being made for those who have trouble with their eyes and can’t read long post I tend to restrict my comments on the discussion forum and stick mostly to posting on the blog.

If you had taken the time to check out my blog posts, specifically the index you would have noted that I have pretty much covered most of my beliefs on several key doctrines, I have nothing to hide.

I will address your last statement in my next post.
But all beings are functional and worth alot to themselves and others. No one religions is right for all. There's always gonna be problems. People can choose what they want as they grow up and youthful acts and lifestyles aren't only because of the serpent.
 
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Taken

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No, I did not say the Lord was not true, I said YOU were not true,

I said...
To Disbelieve Souls Continue to Live ON After Physical Death, IS TO DENY Jesus' Own Doctrine.

Got it, you disagree.

I said...
Souls Separated from God are Spiritually Dead.

Got it, you disagree.

Souls IN HELL, spiritually Separated from God SHALL BE DESTROYED.

Got it, you disagree.

Your disagreement...AND...accusation.

This too is false. It is evident you have fallen for the Adversaries lie. If you truly believe that there is a specific doctrine taught by the Lord which teaches life continues on after death please provide Chapter and verse.

Already gave you the Chapt., and Verse.

Your response.

As for the texts you quote in Luke that is a parable. In a parable the words said are not the words meant, to take it as a literal statement is to involve all manner of absurdities.

Your Explanation is Jesus spoke in Parables.
Your Explanation is the WORDS SAID in a PARABLE are not the words meant!

BY YOUR LOGIC, Jesus TAUGHT HIS "DOCTRINE" BY USING WORDS TO NOT MEAN WHAT HE WAS SAYING.

Scripture REVEALS Jesus TAUGHT ALL OF HIS "DOCTRINE" IN PARABLES, AS IT WAS FORETOLD HE WOULD TEACH HIS DOCTRINE IN SUCH MANNER.

Matt 13:
[35] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables;

You used your opportunity to post and say Jesus used Words to speak things that he did not mean....


So WHAT EXACTLY DID JESUS MEAN, IN LUKE 16, when He was SPEAKING of a Rich man DEAD AND BURIED and the same Rich mans SOUL IN HELL, SEEING Abraham afar off, whom he could not approach and SPEAKING, and complaining of the torment of heat and being Thirsty ?

EXPLAIN Jesus' Words...
Since you think Jesus' was NOT saying what He meant...
That the Rich man was dead and buried, and his soul was in HELL, being tormented in heat, thirsty, seeing, talking.....

Have at it....What did Jesus REALLY MEAN?

that YOU were the one who was in error...
By your saying that the Lord Jesus is the Truth and only speaks the truth

LOL....Really? I did say Jesus is the TRUTH and ONLY Speaks the Truth..

And you are claiming that is an ERROR? LOL

Thank you for your assessment. LOL

Perhaps you should READ:

John 14
[6] Jesus saith ... I am the truth...

1 Pet 2
[21] ...Christ...
[22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

BUT, BUT, BUT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT....

We are ALL WAITING FOR YOU....to EXPLAIN WHAT JESUS "REALLY MEANT"....since what YOU CLAIM, what words He used, were NOT the words He meant. So WHAT DID JESUS REALLY MEAN IN Luke 16 forward?

LOL


and then turning around and ascribing to our Lord Satan’s lie (viz. “Thou shall surely not die”, Gen 3:4)

Well, that didn't happen...

The in essence accusing him of teaching the same thing, and in so doing YOU dishonor him.[/QUOTE]

YOU FORGOT to quote me of what you accuse me of....HOW COME? Oh right...Because I said no such thing for you to quote.

Oops, deleted more of your unfounded off point accusations.

I have no fear in stating my beliefs.

Oh Good...than you shall have no problem,
Explaining what Jesus "REALLY MEANT" in Luke, when Jesus said the rich man was DEAD and BURIED while the rich mans SOUL was in HELL, seeing, speaking, thirsty...
What DID JESUS "REALLY MEAN" in Luke 16?

See if you can let us in on "your" explanation without going off on a tangent of using all the space for accusation toward others.

If you had taken the time to check out my blog posts, specifically the index you would have noted that I have pretty much covered most of my beliefs on several key doctrines, I have nothing to hide.

I've asked you a direct question. I have no desire to thumb through pages of your blog posts. I did not accuse you of hiding.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Taken

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Now here you make the assertion that we don’t believe this parable to be a doctrine (teaching) of Christ. No one’s claiming that this parable is not a doctrine of Christ. He’s the one presenting the parable so obviously it’s his doctrine.

If it is literal at all, the whole thing is literal, and if it is symbolic at all, the whole thing is symbolic. Therefore we say without any question, this is a parable, because to take it literally would be to involve ourselves in statements of absurdity.

“The Scriptures were written and arranged in such a way by the Lord, through the inspired writers that they could not be understood excepting by those who would come into harmony with Him by faith and obedience. The Lord is pleased to enlighten His children by the operation of the holy spirit through His Divine purposes. It is related of our Lord Jesus that in all of His teachings He addressed the multitudes in parables and dark sayings that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying:

I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world.” (Matt 13:34, 35) Only afterwards did he explain them to His disciples.

The parable of "The Rich man and Lazarus" is a remarkable prophecy of conditions relating to the Jews and the Gentiles and, we believe, could not have been stated in any other way without disclosing the realities which evidently the Lord intended were to remain disguised or concealed from the world and the worldly church (the professing church, orthodoxy), and whose real significance would be made known only to His devoted followers (those who have been enlightened by his spirit).”

To you (the spirit begotten) it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside (as typified both by those outside the courtyard condition, those without faith, the worldly as well as those outside the holy condition, those believers not fully consecrated, not in covenant relationship with the Lord, and thus not begotten of his spirit, to these), all things come in parables (mysteries, dark sayings i.e. confusing statements), so that ‘seeing they may see and not perceive, and hearing they may hear and not understand…” (Mark 4:11, 12)

This is precisely why you have felled to properly understand this parable, “eyes they have, but they see not; ears but hear not” (Psa 115:5, 6) Nevertheless, should you yet in humility lay aside your pride in your own understandings and that of other men and come to the Lord in meekness and humility perhaps he may yet enlighten you.

As stated we have already fully presented our view on this parable in our blog post entitled “The Rich man and Lazarus”, but for now it is apparent that having already given yourself over to the false idea that this is a literal presentation rather than a metaphoric presentation (a parable) you show no interest in viewing the material. But then it is even as our Lord said it would be, for the time shall come (has come) when they will not stand for sound doctrine but having itching ears will be turned away from the truth to fables (lies, deceptions, errors). And it is for this cause (i.e. “because they did not receive the love of the truth”, when it was made known to them) that God allows them to be given over to the delusion of their own choosing, that they may be condemned (denounced) for not believing the truth, but having preference for error for falsehoods.

Nevertheless for the sake of those who are still yet unsure as to whether or not this is a parable we will examine the texts to determine for ourselves if what is stated should be taken factually, i.e. literally as you suggest or metaphorically (symbolic or figuratively) as we suggest.

Since this will require some time for a proper explanation and due to its length we will be posting it on our blog and will entitled it “The Rich man and the Beggar”, so as not to get it confused with our other post on the subject.

Your words:

However your insistence that it is to be taken as a “factual” or literal statement of events is what’s in dispute here...

...to take it literally would be to involve ourselves in statements of absurdity.

Your words are an EXCELLENT summary of HOW "YOU BELIEVE" Jesus' Doctrine should not be believed to be FACTUAL.

Again I DISAGREE WITH YOU.
I BELIEVE Scripture; THAT:
Jesus IS the Truth.
Jesus IS all KNOWING.
Jesus DID NOT Speak things that were NOT True.
Jesus DID Speak IN A MANNER that men would HEAR His WORDS and BE BLIND (like you) and NOT BELIEVE His WORDS are Factual and NOT Understand His WORDS.

... to take it (Jesus' words) literally would be to involve ourselves in statements of absurdity.

LOL...thanks for sharing your utter nonsense doctrine.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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David kilmer

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Well why can't people respect the father? His side of the universe is cool. It's unique. He created black and night maybe.
 

David kilmer

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If it is literal at all, the whole thing is literal, and if it is symbolic at all, the whole thing is symbolic. Therefore we say without any question, this is a parable, because to take it literally would be to involve ourselves in statements of absurdity.

“The Scriptures were written and arranged in such a way by the Lord, through the inspired writers that they could not be understood excepting by those who would come into harmony with Him by faith and obedience. The Lord is pleased to enlighten His children by the operation of the holy spirit through His Divine purposes. It is related of our Lord Jesus that in all of His teachings He addressed the multitudes in parables and dark sayings that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying:

I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world.” (Matt 13:34, 35) Only afterwards did he explain them to His disciples.

The parable of "The Rich man and Lazarus" is a remarkable prophecy of conditions relating to the Jews and the Gentiles and, we believe, could not have been stated in any other way without disclosing the realities which evidently the Lord intended were to remain disguised or concealed from the world and the worldly church (the professing church, orthodoxy), and whose real significance would be made known only to His devoted followers (those who have been enlightened by his spirit).”

To you (the spirit begotten) it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside (as typified both by those outside the courtyard condition, those without faith, the worldly as well as those outside the holy condition, those believers not fully consecrated, not in covenant relationship with the Lord, and thus not begotten of his spirit, to these), all things come in parables (mysteries, dark sayings i.e. confusing statements), so that ‘seeing they may see and not perceive, and hearing they may hear and not understand…” (Mark 4:11, 12)

This is precisely why you have felled to properly understand this parable, “eyes they have, but they see not; ears but hear not” (Psa 115:5, 6) Nevertheless, should you yet in humility lay aside your pride in your own understandings and that of other men and come to the Lord in meekness and humility perhaps he may yet enlighten you.

As stated we have already fully presented our view on this parable in our blog post entitled “The Rich man and Lazarus”, but for now it is apparent that having already given yourself over to the false idea that this is a literal presentation rather than a metaphoric presentation (a parable) you show no interest in viewing the material. But then it is even as our Lord said it would be, for the time shall come (has come) when they will not stand for sound doctrine but having itching ears will be turned away from the truth to fables (lies, deceptions, errors). And it is for this cause (i.e. “because they did not receive the love of the truth”, when it was made known to them) that God allows them to be given over to the delusion of their own choosing, that they may be condemned (denounced) for not believing the truth, but having preference for error for falsehoods.

Nevertheless for the sake of those who are still yet unsure as to whether or not this is a parable we will examine the texts to determine for ourselves if what is stated should be taken factually, i.e. literally as you suggest or metaphorically (symbolic or figuratively) as we suggest.

Since this will require some time for a proper explanation and due to its length we will be posting it on our blog and will entitled it “The Rich man and the Beggar”, so as not to get it confused with our other post on the subject.

Your words:



Your words are an EXCELLENT summary of HOW "YOU BELIEVE" Jesus' Doctrine should not be believed to be FACTUAL.

Again I DISAGREE WITH YOU.
I BELIEVE Scripture; THAT:
Jesus IS the Truth.
Jesus IS all KNOWING.
Jesus DID NOT Speak things that were NOT True.
Jesus DID Speak IN A MANNER that men would HEAR His WORDS and BE BLIND (like you) and NOT BELIEVE His WORDS are Factual and NOT Understand His WORDS.



LOL...thanks for sharing your utter nonsense doctrine.

Glory to God,
Taken[/QUOTE]
Earth was created in the day, but the opposite of a shiny bright light is darkness, in which the father too created. He dwells in it. Or is this a hard thing? If it wasn't for heaven there'd be no dark.... Or hell for that matter.
 

Davy

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The orthodox Jews are the originators of the 'dead-in-the-ground' theory, even though they believe in a resurrection at the end of this world. They don't believe Jesus is Messiah, so they don't heed what the New Testament declares.

In Matthew 10:28, Jesus showed that our soul continues on after flesh death. This aligns with what Solomon taught in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 with a "silver cord" being loosed at flesh death, and our spirit goes back to God, but our flesh goes back to the ground where it came from. The orthodox Jews still wrongly believe our soul is of fleshy matter.

In 1 Peter 3:18-19 & 1 Peter 4:6, we are told that Jesus at His resurrection went to the "spirits in prison" and preached The Gospel to those who were dead. This was prophecy fulfilled from Isaiah 42:7 about releasing the prisoners who sat in darkness in the prison house (in hell, or per the Greek, Haides).
 

charity

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Hello @Davy,

If that is true, that I shall say, Praise God for the Jew!

The soul is the whole man: 'The soul that sinneth it shall die' (Ezek.18:4 & 20).
The
'spirits in prison' of 1 Peter 3:20, were not human beings, but angels, the angels that sinned in the days of Noah. It has nothing to do with Isaiah 42:7.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Taken

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Your words:



Your words are an EXCELLENT summary of HOW "YOU BELIEVE" Jesus' Doctrine should not be believed to be FACTUAL.

Again I DISAGREE WITH YOU.
I BELIEVE Scripture; THAT:
Jesus IS the Truth.
Jesus IS all KNOWING.
Jesus DID NOT Speak things that were NOT True.
Jesus DID Speak IN A MANNER that men would HEAR His WORDS and BE BLIND (like you) and NOT BELIEVE His WORDS are Factual and NOT Understand His WORDS.



LOL...thanks for sharing your utter nonsense doctrine.

Glory to God,
Taken

[/QUOTE] Earth was created in the day, [/QUOTE]

Maybe Scripture got it wrong?

Gen 1
[5] ...the evening and the morning were the first day.

but the opposite of a shiny bright light is darkness, in which the father too created.

God is INVISIBLE to a natural mans EYES.
If God chooses to BE in the SUN, observing the Earth...you can not Look at the SUN and See God.
If God chooses to BE in a Dark CLOUD, observing the Earth....you can not Look at the Dark Cloud and See God.

The Absense of Light is Darkness.
The Moon has no Light of its own.
The Moon receives Light from the Suns Reflection.

He dwells in it.

God is omnipresent.

Or is this a hard thing? If it wasn't for heaven there'd be no dark.... Or hell for that matter.

Heaven is Gods Throne.
If it wasn't for God, there would be no Heaven, Hell, Light, People or Earth for that matter.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Davy

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Hello @Davy,

If that is true, that I shall say, Praise God for the Jew!

The soul is the whole man: 'The soul that sinneth it shall die' (Ezek.18:4 & 20).
The
'spirits in prison' of 1 Peter 3:20, were not human beings, but angels, the angels that sinned in the days of Noah. It has nothing to do with Isaiah 42:7.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I realize that some... teach that those "spirits in prison" were angels that rebelled, and that Jesus was merely proclaiming His triumph over death to them, but that is not what that Scripture declares...

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
KJV

1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

KJV

Angels didn't die. The fallen angel's destruction isn't until after this present world. That is proof that Jesus preached The Gospel to souls in the heavenly that had already died in their flesh, and were with God in the spirit. It proves what Jesus said in Matt.10:28 that our soul continues after flesh death. That Scripture is even making a comparison between those who once lived in the flesh.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Is hell worse for some?
If so, is it based upon the number of sins committed or the type of sin committed?
For example, if someone committed adultery all their lives vs someone who committed adultery once. Would one's punishment be worse then?

There is some indication this may be so...I tell you it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgement than it will be for you...
 

charity

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Huh? Your soul came from Dust of the Earth?

Glory to God,
Taken

'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.'

(Gen 2:7)
 

charity

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I realize that some... teach that those "spirits in prison" were angels that rebelled, and that Jesus was merely proclaiming His triumph over death to them, but that is not what that Scripture declares...

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
KJV

1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

KJV

Angels didn't die. The fallen angel's destruction isn't until after this present world. That is proof that Jesus preached The Gospel to souls in the heavenly that had already died in their flesh, and were with God in the spirit. It proves what Jesus said in Matt.10:28 that our soul continues after flesh death. That Scripture is even making a comparison between those who once lived in the flesh.
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins,
the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh,
but quickened by the Spirit:

By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient,

when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing,
wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.'

(1Peter 3:18-20)

Hello @Davy,

This verse could not be clearer yet you choose to put your own interpretation on it. The Lord went, in the spirit, to preach unto the angels in prison. They are not dead, as you say, but they are imprisoned awaiting the judgment that will come at that time of God's choosing.

'And fear not them which kill the body,
but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear Him
which is able to destroy both soul and body
in hell.
'
(Mat. 10:28)

* The word translated, 'soul' in this verse, that you refer to, is 'psuche', and refers to the spirit. Man is not able to kill the spirit, for though the body dies, the spirit (ie., the breath of life) goes back to God who gave it. So man is not to be feared, for he can only kill the body, he cannot kill the whole man.

* Rather, it is God who is to be feared, for He is able to destroy both the body, and the Psuche (or, 'spirit'), therefore the whole man; in the fires of Gehenna (which is the word translated 'Hell' here) in the time of judgment. For, 'The soul that sinneth it shall die'

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Taken

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'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.'

(Gen 2:7)


Yes the Earth is Dry Land.
Yes the surface of the Earth is Dust.
Yes Dust is called ground.
Yes thee Lord God formed the dust.
Yes thee Lord God called the form Man.
Yes the Form is called a BODY.
Yes God Blew His Breath into the BODY
Yes the MAN is now a living, Body & Soul.

Charity posted
The soul is the whole man:

I asked what you meant.

You quoted Scripture, which Did Not explain what You meant.

The Scripture reveals the Form, (Body).
You said nothing about the Form, (Body)
But said:

The soul is the whole man;

Either you meant the BODY, is not relevant, non existant, or that a Body With Gods Breath in a Soul, In the Body, completes the man making the man Whole, Body and Soul, or something else...you didn't explain what You meant, which was the Question, that only You can explain what You meant.

Curious also, as to What you believe happens to the Living Soul and the Living Body, AT the time of Physical Death of a Man.

Glory to God,
Taken