Is it ok to Give = $$$$$$$

[Behold]

This command was given to Israel *while they were still under the Law.* Neither Israel nor any other nation is under the Law any longer. It is a dead law. It is heresy to say we need to go back under the Law and select rules to live by, based on our preference. Nowhere in the NT letters are we told to live by a Law of Tithe. If you think so, quote it. Either that, or keep your slanders to yourself.

The first time a 10% was given, the Law had not yet been given.
So, the actual first Tithe, was given before the Law.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The first time a 10% was given, the Law had not yet been given.
So, the actual first Tithe, was given before the Law.

That is not explicit theology. That is an *inference* you're drawing from something Abraham did--not for us, but for himself. And it was a one-time offering. Are we then to follow his example, and give a tenth only once in our life? Or, are we to follow his example, and only give a tenth when we win a battle? Don't be silly!

We do, however, have explicit theology telling us *we are not under the Law of Moses*--not in any way whatsoever. Paul got mad when Jewish believers began to tell non-Jewish believers they needed to get circumcised. Paul was angry because Christ is the basis of our justification--not keeping the Law.

Keeping the Law was only a temporary phenomena for Israel. It was temporary only up until Christ produced an eternal righteousness that we can participate in for free. This is the only way in which our sins can be forever cancelled.

Returning to the Law for the Jews would be the equivalent of rejecting Christ's sacrifice. It would be a return to temporary righteousness that is never completely cleansed. You're requiring things that for Paul constituted an "abomination!"

You should think twice about requiring anything in the Law, including the Law of Tithe. Abraham's gift to Melchizedek was *not* a Law of Tithe for the Church! If you think so, provide the proof, or quit.

 

[theophilus]

Abraham wasn't the only one to pay a tithe before the Law.

Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat and clothing to wear, so that I come again to my father's house in peace, then the Lord shall be my God, and this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, shall be God's house. And of all that you give me I will give a full tenth to you.”
Genesis 28:20-22 ESV

Many of the commands in the Law were things the Israelites already practice. The Law was more a codification of thins already practiced rather than a revelation of new truth.

 

[justbyfaith]

The law is in fact written in the hearts and in the minds of New Covenant believers (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7).

While we do not keep the law unto salvation, we are saved unto the keeping of the law.

If we fail to do so, there is no condemnation.

However, those who are truly born again have a desire to obey the Lord; and the law is His commandments that we are to obey.

 

[Earburner]

You are assuming the Old Testament is no longer valid.

Isa 8:20, To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Now I am not even saying that tithing is a law that must be kept.

But I will say that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and for ever (Hebrews 13:8, Malachi 3:6) and that this means that the OT prophets have a say in our doctrine (according to 2 Timothy 3:16 they do) because it is the same God who wrote the Old Testament who also wrote the New.

This means that when God says the whole nation is cursed with a curse because they are withholding tithes, that this applies to us today: and when He says that He will pour out a blessing that we will not have room enough to receive it if we will but bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that this applies to us today.

It is not presented in Malachi as a law; but it is given as a promise, that God will bless with a blessing those who will give to Him His proper due when it comes to their trusting Him in their financial situation.

I don't know if I'm saying things clearly enough tonight as I am somewhat tired tonight and may be beginning to experience burnout from ministry, I don't know. I covet the prayers of the saints on this. Hopefully I will feel better tomorrow.

YES! THAT is absolutely correct, the Old Covenant (contract) is null and void, BECAUSE in Jesus, we are under the NEW Covenant (contract).
If you are really interested in knowing how Christians are NOT under any Tithing rule or Law, then please read the following:
7 Reasons Christians Are Not Required to Tithe

 

[justbyfaith]

The law is written on the hearts and in the minds of those who are under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7).

For this is the love of the Lord: that we obey His commandments (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6).

I will say this: that there is a specific promise associated with tithing, that the Lord will pour out for you a blessing so great that you will not be able to receive it all (Malachi 3).

He will open the windows of heaven for you (which translates into Him pouring out of His Spirit).

If you desire therefore that the latter rain of the Holy Spirit (Joel 2:23, Zechariah 10:1, James 5:7) might affect you personally, I would suggest digging in, and giving to God that percentage of your income that He claims for Himself.

I say this not as anyone who might be able to receive a tithe from you; but as a layman who desires that you might have every blessing from God that He desires to give you.

For I believe that there are promises given in His word that cannot be obtained apart from fulfilling the condition of the promise.

So then, in Malachi 3, there is a promise, with a condition attached to it.

We are wise if we do everything in our power to obtain all the promises of God that we are aware of.

 

[LC627]

If we give our whole heart to God the rest will fall in place...Seek ye first the Kingdom.

 

[farouk]

@Behold , there is tithing and there is giving. I don't believe that God compels Christians to tithe under threat of punishment, but He still blesses the tithe. I don't expect God to make me a millionaire because I tithe, but I do expect Him to --and have seen Him-- make the other 90% go farther, as promised.

" 'Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And [test] Me now in this,'
Says the Lord of hosts,
'If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it.
And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes,
So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground,
Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field,'
Says the Lord of hosts;..." Malachi 3:10-11 NKJV

If you tithe, it is 10% of your income given to your church home. Anything else is considered "giving." We tithe off of net, earned income. Others calculate from their gross income. It just depends on how the Holy Spirit convicts you.

Generous giving is honoured, but there is no Levitical compulsion as under the OT.

 

[Sabertooth]

Generous giving is honoured, but there is no Levitical compulsion as under the OT.

Agreed. And tithing is honored.

 

[farouk]

Agreed. And tithing is honored.

Particularly as an Old Testament thing...

 

[justbyfaith]

Agreed. And tithing is honored.

Particularly as an Old Testament thing...

And in the New Testament.

1Co 16:1, Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
1Co 16:2, Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

 

[farouk]

And in the New Testament.

1Co 16:1, Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
1Co 16:2, Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

These seem to be collections and offerings, not Levitical obligations, which is what tithes are.

 

[Bobby Jo]

To All,

I had a dear older friend did some study on the subject of "tithing", and he concluded that it was basically compulsory for those who had something like -- more than two sheep. But if an individual had -- two sheep or less --, there was no requirement for them to "tithe".

Of course you won't hear that in any churches throughout history, -- because THEY WANT YOUR MONEY. And I don't mind giving, in fact my wife and I seek opportunities to give to WORTHY causes, which in our case DOESN'T INCLUDE A LOCAL CHURCH. They have MORE than enough to build large edifices to themselves and their religious piety.

And of course "giving" is on top of "tithing".
Bobby Jo

 

[justbyfaith]

To All,

I had a dear older friend did some study on the subject of "tithing", and he concluded that it was basically compulsory for those who had something like -- more than two sheep. But if an individual had -- two sheep or less --, there was no requirement for them to "tithe".

Of course you won't hear that in any churches throughout history, -- because THEY WANT YOUR MONEY. And I don't mind giving, in fact my wife and I seek opportunities to give to WORTHY causes, which in our case DOESN'T INCLUDE A LOCAL CHURCH. They have MORE than enough to build large edifices to themselves and their religious piety.

And of course "giving" is on top of "tithing".
Bobby Jo

I do believe that if we teach our children to tithe 10 cents out of every dollar of their allowance, they will learn the value of money.

 

[Bobby Jo]

I do believe that if we teach our children to tithe 10 cents out of every dollar of their allowance, they will learn the value of money.

Everyone has their justifications, but I thought this was a Bible forum.

Bobby Jo

 

[Sabertooth]

I don't attend prosperity-focused churches. Malachi 3 gives a framework and I have seen God keep its promise to bless the remainder of my finances (compared to before I knew to tithe). I am still hovering at the poverty line but have a credit rating of 800. (And we had a bankruptcy 16 years ago.)

 

[justbyfaith]

Everyone has their justifications, but I thought this was a Bible forum.

Bobby Jo

There is plenty of Bible substantiation for the practice of tithing;

And it is not necessarily anti-biblical to show valid reasons why biblical practices are good for us; even if we don't get those reasons directly from the Bible (but from common experience).

 

[Bobby Jo]

There is plenty of Bible substantiation for the practice of tithing ...

Do your children PERSONALLY own --more than two goats--?

If NOT, then what you're teaching is of your own imagination. And there's nothing wrong with whatever you imagine, but don't insist that you are OBEYING A BIBLE PRACTICE.

And to make matters WORSE, the "church" promulgates "tithing" to the point of ROBBING THE POOR. So MAYBE you should teach your children NOT TO STEAL FROM THE POOR under the guise of "Christianity", but to GIVE TO THE POOR. And then take them where their "tithe" can help someone in the streets, or a nursing home, or hospital, or SOMEWHERE THERE"S NOT A GREEDY SELF ABSORBED HIRELING.

Bobby Jo

 

[justbyfaith]

Do your children PERSONALLY own --more than two goats--?

If NOT, then what you're teaching is of your own imagination.

Is this doctrine in the Bible?

A GREEDY SELF ABSORBED HIRELING.

I can see that you have a wonderful opinion about pastors in the church.

 

[Sabertooth]

Did you miss Post #33?

I had a dear older friend did some study on the subject of "tithing", and he concluded that it was basically compulsory for those who had something like -- more than two sheep. But if an individual had -- two sheep or less --, there was no requirement for them to "tithe".

I have never seen that criteria in my Bible. What book did your friend write?