Is it ok to Give = $$$$$$$

[justbyfaith]

Did you miss Post #33?

No...I want chapter and verse.

If they start with a "P", they're suspect, including: Police; Politicians; Pastors; Perverts; etc.

Don't believe ANYTHING a person says as listed above. And they're not listed in ascending or descending order, -- they're all TIED for first place.

That is reprehensible, that you group pastors and police along with perverts.

I think that there have been three pastors in the history of the church that have given a bad name to the rest (see Zechariah 11:8).

 

[marksman]

-
Probably the first tithe was given by : Gen 14:17-20: “at the Valley of Shaveh (that is, the King's Valley), after his return from the defeat of Chedorlaomer and the kings who were with him. Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. And he blessed him and said: “Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth; And blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand.” = And he gave him a TITHE of all. Tithe means 10%

So, this verse is teaching that giving leads to getting back from God, and being stingy and greedy, leads to LACK and living in a state of being constantly " needy"

We are told in 1st Timothy 5:17 : "Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine", and that is certainly talking about a paycheck.

Not so. The word honour is the same Greek word to honour Jesus. If it means a paycheck then we have to give money to Jesus for what he did.

 

[Bobby Jo]

No...I want chapter and verse.

"Fred" passed away a couple of years ago. Perhaps you should do your own research.

That is reprehensible, that you group pastors and police along with perverts.

How's things working for George Floyd. Personally, I'll bet he'd rather have been RAPED by a PERVERT, and still alive. -- So given that standard, maybe Pastors and Perverts are a step above MURDERING COPS.

I think that there have been three pastors in the history of the church that have given a bad name to the rest (see Zechariah 11:8).

THREE?!? And it ain't ancient history, -- they're human and still LYING, RAPING, having SEX, and watching CHILD PORN. In fact, out of a half a dozen pastors I've sat under, -- TWO covered up the RAPE of a young girl by the "Youth Minister" while her mother was dying of cancer; TWO are bald faced LIARS; ONE was arrested for CHILD PORN; ONE was DISHONEST and ruined the reputation of a GOOD MAN; and after we moved out of state, ONE newer "pastor" had SEX with the church pianist who was a close friend with a husband and children.

And each of the first six were "preaching" in a highly affluent community, -- the richest community in the State, and with the most Phd's per capita in the nation, and we don't even have a University and barely a community college.


So yeah, defend the HIRELINGS, as though they deserved it.
Bobby Jo

 

[justbyfaith]

We are told in 1st Timothy 5:17 : "Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine", and that is certainly talking about a paycheck.

Not so. The word honour is the same Greek word to honour Jesus. If it means a paycheck then we have to give money to Jesus for what he did.

It seems to me that your autism is preventing you from seeing these scriptures clearly.

The scripture does not say that we are to honour Jesus with money; in context of when it says to honour Jesus.

But in context of 1 Timothy 5:17, we are told that we are not to muzzle the ox that treadeth out fhe grain and that the labourer is worthy of his reward. This indicates monetary compensation in context.

 

[justbyfaith]

"Fred" passed away a couple of years ago. Perhaps you should do your own research.

I read my Bible often and have also read through it numerous times....and I have never come across the teaching that you are referring to.

You should have asked him what scriptures he was thinking of when he came to that conclusion; and been a Berean on the matter. As it is, you have no scriptural backup for your statements.

How's things working for George Floyd. Personally, I'll bet he'd rather have been RAPED by a PERVERT, and still alive. -- So given that standard, maybe Pastors and Perverts are a step above MURDERING COPS.

Yes, every cop in existence is exactly like the one that murdered George Floyd.

Now the Black Lives Matter Movement is intent on eradicating racism from our culture...but how are they going to do that if they are exalting other stereotypes?

A blue uniform automatically means that you are a murderer, huh?

THREE?!? And it ain't ancient history, -- they're human and still LYING, RAPING, having SEX, and watching CHILD PORN. In fact, out of a half a dozen pastors I've sat under, -- TWO covered up the RAPE of a young girl by the "Youth Minister" while her mother was dying of cancer; TWO are bald faced LIARS; ONE was arrested for CHILD PORN; ONE was DISHONEST and ruined the reputation of a GOOD MAN; and after we moved out of state, ONE newer "pastor" had SEX with the church pianist who was a close friend with a husband and children.

And each of the first six were "preaching" in a highly affluent community, -- the richest community in the State, and with the most Phd's per capita in the nation, and we don't even have a University and barely a community college.


So yeah, defend the HIRELINGS, as though they deserved it.

Again, I would mention the thing about stereotypes. The pastors that you are speaking of were never born again.

There are many pastors who are in fact born again...and as such they are nothing like the bad examples that you are speaking of.

2Co 5:17, Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

 

[Bobby Jo]

...
Yes, every cop in existence is exactly like the one that murdered George Floyd.

Would it be better if cops simply stopped you; detained you; accosted you; cuffed you; arrested you; threw you in jail for no offense; and then released you maybe a couple hours or couple of days later with NO CHARGES? Would that be OK? -- It happens ALL THE TIME in varying degrees. Just take a look at YouTube. There's no shortage of rogue cops, and no shortage of cops who toe the "Thin Blue Line" and cover-up CRIMES by their "fellow officers" (read: fellow criminals).

The pastors that you are speaking of were never born again.

Thank you. I'm glad I've finally found someone who can see into the souls of other men besides GOD. -- What a relief that YOU are the ONE PERSON in ALL CREATION that's equal to either GOD or JESUS. -- Are you Jesus' older/younger brother, perchance?


Please consider changing your screen name to "JustByBalderdash".
Bobby Jo

 

[justbyfaith]

Thank you. I'm glad I've finally found someone who can see into the souls of other men besides GOD. -- What a relief that YOU are the ONE PERSON in ALL CREATION that's equal to either GOD or JESUS. -- Are you Jesus' older/younger brother, perchance?

Jesus said, You will know them by their fruits, and it is also written in holy scripture that there is a gift of the discernment of spirits. (Matthew 7:15-20, 1 Corinthians 12:7-11).

So, you want to defend these pastors now by saying that they are born again, when you previously said that they are on the same level as perverts.

What are you trying to say? That the born again can be wicked?

That is not a scriptural concept at all. And I gave you three scriptures in the other post that show that this is the case.

Here they are again:

2Co 5:17, Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
.
.
.
And yes, there is a sense in which Jesus is my Big Brother (see Hebrews 2:11-13).

 

[justbyfaith]

Would it be better if cops simply stopped you; detained you; accosted you; cuffed you; arrested you; threw you in jail for no offense; and then released you maybe a couple hours or couple of days later with NO CHARGES? Would that be OK? -- It happens ALL THE TIME in varying degrees. Just take a look at YouTube. There's no shortage of rogue cops, and no shortage of cops who toe the "Thin Blue Line" and cover-up CRIMES by their "fellow officers" (read: fellow criminals).

What is the alternative?

Defunding the police means you will have anarchy and mayhem running in the streets.

I would rather have a few rogue officers doing these things than no police out there at all to protect us from the criminal elements of society.

The solution is to deal with corruption on the force; not to get rid of the force itself!

 

[marksman]

It seems to me that your autism is preventing you from seeing these scriptures clearly.

The scripture does not say that we are to honour Jesus with money; in context of when it says to honour Jesus.

But in context of 1 Timothy 5:17, we are told that we are not to muzzle the ox that treadeth out fhe grain and that the labourer is worthy of his reward. This indicates monetary compensation in context.

I never said we are to honour Jesus with money. I said that giving Elders double honour, if it means money, then we have to pay Jesus money because when it says to honour him, it is the same Greek word as that applied to the Elders.

 

[justbyfaith]

I never said we are to honour Jesus with money. I said that giving Elders double honour, if it means money, then we have to pay Jesus money because when it says to honour him, it is the same Greek word as that applied to the Elders.

How are we going to give Jesus money except by giving money to His church (which is His body)?

Psa 16:2, O my soul, thou hast said unto the LORD, Thou art my Lord: my goodness extendeth not to thee;
Psa 16:3, But to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight.

We give to Jesus by giving to His church; and there is a certain portion of this that goes to the pastor's salary.

And again, when it says to honour Jesus, nothing in the context speaks of money; while the context of 1 Timothy 5:17 in fact does speak of money.

So, context is key.

The fact that it is the same Greek word does not mean anything.

Even if it does, we give to Jesus by giving to His church; which actually substantiates my pov.

 

[marksman]

How are we going to give Jesus money except by giving money to His church (which is His body)?

Psa 16:2, O my soul, thou hast said unto the LORD, Thou art my Lord: my goodness extendeth not to thee;
Psa 16:3, But to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight.

We give to Jesus by giving to His church; and there is a certain portion of this that goes to the pastor's salary.

And again, when it says to honour Jesus, nothing in the context speaks of money; while the context of 1 Timothy 5:17 in fact does speak of money.

So, context is key.

The fact that it is the same Greek word does not mean anything.

Even if it does, we give to Jesus by giving to His church; which actually substantiates my pov.

I guess that when you interpret scripture to suit your theology you get into all sorts of problems. And the fact that you believe it is the same Greek word is irrelevant you have just destroyed years and years of biblical exegesis by men who are skilled at interpreting his Word.

 

[farouk]

I guess that when you interpret scripture to suit your theology you get into all sorts of problems. And the fact that you believe it is the same Greek word is irrelevant you have just destroyed years and years of biblical exegesis by men who are skilled at interpreting his Word.

In this question, the distinction between the church and Israel is significant. There are no Levites today to whom an obligatory tithe is to be given.

 

[marksman]

In this question, the distinction between the church and Israel is significant. There are no Levites today to whom an obligatory tithe is to be given.

I agree. I can guarantee that those who tithe because of the verse in Malachi do so because they have been told to tithe because of the verse in Malachi. What they haven't been told is that you never formulate a doctrine based on one verse of scripture.

 

[farouk]

I agree. I can guarantee that those who tithe because of the verse in Malachi do so because they have been told to tithe because of the verse in Malachi. What they haven't been told is that you never formulate a doctrine based on one verse of scripture.

Malachi - a precious Minor Prophetical book that I often appreciate reading - has in its context a faithful remnant of Israel, not the New Testament church dating from post-Pentecost.

 

[justbyfaith]

I guess that when you interpret scripture to suit your theology you get into all sorts of problems. And the fact that you believe it is the same Greek word is irrelevant you have just destroyed years and years of biblical exegesis by men who are skilled at interpreting his Word.

Because the context of 1 Timothy 5:17 bears out that honouring the elders who rule well with double honour, refers to monetary compensation for their work.

1Ti 5:17, Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
1Ti 5:18, For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Whereas the scripture about honouring Jesus has nothing about that in its context:

Jhn 5:22, For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Jhn 5:23, That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

[justbyfaith]

Malachi - a precious Minor Prophetical book that I often appreciate reading - has in its context a faithful remnant of Israel, not the New Testament church dating from post-Pentecost.

Nevertheless, I am of the opinion that all scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.

Therefore, to discount its application to our lives because of to whom it was written might be a severe mistake.

 

[marksman]

Because the context of 1 Timothy 5:17 bears out that honouring the elders who rule well with double honour, refers to monetary compensation for their work.

1Ti 5:17, Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
1Ti 5:18, For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Whereas the scripture about honouring Jesus has nothing about that in its context:

Jhn 5:22, For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Jhn 5:23, That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

And what is the Elders reward?

 

[farouk]

Nevertheless, I am of the opinion that all scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.

So then, to discount its application to our lives because of to whom it was written might be a severe mistake.

Oh, plenty of profit in reading Malachi....but (as a dispensationalist I would ask) are we now Israel, governed by Levites, to whom the obligatory tithes were to be given?

 

[justbyfaith]

And what is the Elders reward?

Compare 1 Timothy 5:18 to 1 Corinthians 9:9 and its context; and you'll have your answer.

 

[marksman]

Compare 1 Timothy 5:18 to 1 Corinthians 9:9 and its context; and you'll have your answer.

I want you to tell me what the Elder's reward is.