Is Jesus God?

[101G]

Isaiah 41:4 (NKJV) Who has performed and done it,
Calling the generations from the beginning?
‘I, the Lord, am the first;
And with the last I am He.’

Isaiah 44:6 (NKJV) Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.'

Revelation 22:13 (NKJV) I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.

Revelation 2:8 (NKJV) And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,
These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:

Should dispel any ideas that Yeshua was not the pre-existant almighty God.

How can you say that? please explain

 

[Copperhead]

How can you say that? please explain

You can read, right?

 

[101G]

You can read, right?

I guess so, but please state why you say this is not the Lord Jesus. let's take this one at a time.
#1. Isaiah 41:4, is not the Lord Jesus the First and the Last? yes or no

 

[101G]

1 Corinthians 10:2-3 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat. And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ". this clearly tells me Christ was in the OT.

 

[Copperhead]

I guess so, but please state why you say this is not the Lord Jesus. let's take this one at a time.
#1. Isaiah 41:4, is not the Lord Jesus the First and the Last? yes or no

You must have a reading comprehension problem. I was making the point that Yeshua IS the Yahweh of scripture. You really need to read what is being written and not what you think is being written.

 

[101G]

You must have a reading comprehension problem. I was making the point that Yeshua IS the Yahweh of scripture. You really need to read what is being written and not what you think is being written.

my bad then, because I read "Should dispel any ideas that Yeshua was not the pre-existant almighty God".

 

[Copperhead]

my bad then, because I read "Should dispel any ideas that Yeshua was not the pre-existant almighty God".

You quoted the post correct! You erred by focusing too close on NOT while ignoring the word that preceded it.... DISPEL

should dispel any ideas that Yeshua was not the pre-existent almighty God

It could likewise say with the same meaning....

should reject any ideas that Yeshua was not the pre-existent almighty God

Reject and Dispel has equivalent meanings.

 

[101G]

You quoted the post correct! You erred by focusing too close on NOT while ignoring the word that preceded it.... DISPEL

should dispel any ideas that Yeshua was not the pre-existent almighty God

It could likewise say with the same meaning....

should reject any ideas that Yeshua was not the pre-existent almighty God

Reject and Dispel has equivalent meanings.

Dispel?..... , no need to argue. just glad you know that the Lord Jesus is the ONLY God of the OT.

 

[101G]

Let's lay some ground work on this subject, "Is Jesus God?". I concur, but many of my christian friends are still in the dark about the person, or person(s) as to who is God, as well as in name also. let's shed so light on the subject.

PERSON, to me I'm of the belief that there is only "one" PERSON called God. and that person hold the title we know as God the Holy Spirit. many of my christian friends put him last in some of their theology, when he's the First and only. but when shared, or identified in flesh as the OFFSPRING, he holds both "Titles", Father and Son, which shows possession. when the Holy Spirit was shared in flesh on earth, at the end of the OT, which we call the Gospel. he address himself in heaven as "my Father", meaning in possession, or he was simply saying "My" (Spirit), ownership. in flesh this was his Spirit, hence the words used on earth "my" or "our" Father. the Holy Spirit in heaven, diversified (without flesh) address himself on earth as "my Son". in possession, he was simply saying "My" (body), ownership. just as we say "my" mind, or my legs. is not your mind you, as well as your legs, do you not own them, or possess them?. Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old". here wisdom is personified. supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God". notice that tiny word "of". it translate the genitive case of nouns with various shades of meaning. Of these the subjective and objective are mentioned. source Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. knowing this, the Spirit "of" Christ, and the Spirit "of" God is the SAME Spirit, meaning Christ is God. for there is only ONE Spirit. so Christ and God is the SAME PERSON, not separate, but the same only shared in flesh, now glorified. again as the subject states, yes, "JESUS is GOD". but what get most people confused, is the name of God. why was God, or the Lord Jesus was never called Jesus in the OT. answer, because he have not yet come in flesh. other words, he haven't came in PERSON yet. but the scriptures are clear. Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I". when did God speak?, answer, John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins". I am he, is the Lord Jesus.

so the next step is to cross reference the Lord Jesus with the God of the OT.
next time.


Peace in Christ Jesus.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Why do you call Me good?"

 

[101G]

Christ in the Old Testament

Fact #1. The O.T. Messiah (or Christ) would be VIRGIN BORN in BETHLEHEM of the human SEED OF DAVID. Is he the God of the OT? we say yes.

Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel”.
The fulfillment: Matthew 1:21-23 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us”. a many of christian say this is the Son coming but not the God of the OT. ok, Let’s see. when did he (GOD) come and what title did he hold in the OT before he came?. and then we will find out if he's the God of the OT.

Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Elijah the prophet comes first.
Direct fulfillment by John the Baptist:Matthew 11:13-15 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias (Elijah), which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear”. so we see that it is John the Baptist who comes as the Elijah to come. Let’s get another scripture to be sure. Luke 1:15-17 "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias (Elijah), to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord”. Clearly this Elijah in Malachi 4:5-6 “And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children”, is the SAME Elijah in Luke 1:15-17 “ to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children”. these are word for words direct quotes, so there is no doubt that John the Baptist is the Elias (Elijah) to come first. Now the million dollar question is “Who” came and “When” did this take place. Well that’s easy to answer, in John the baptist days, because he’s the Elias (Elijah) to come, that was easy. But the trillion dollar question is, "who" did he come before? Was it the LORD or the Lord. Let’s see.

The LORD or the Lord comes,
Direct fulfillment by Jesus the Christ: Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I will send my messenger {Elias (Elijah)}, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts”. so who is coming? the Lord or the LORD of hosts?. answer, Isaiah 40:3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God”. let's back this up in John's day by John himself. John 1:22 "Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias". another direct quote, but Isaiah said, "the LORD", all cap. so this voice crying in the wilderness prepares the way for the Lord NT, but LORD all caps, which is the LORD of host (OT). Let’s see if this is true. Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God”. So the LORD of Host is the LORD, all caps, meaning the God of the OT, who also happens to be the “First and the “Last”, which is also Jesus the Christ the God of the (NT) who came by the virgin. what do this mean? the LORD is the Lord in flesh and bones. we know that the Lord Jesus is the First and the Last. Supportive scripture, Revelation 1:17-18 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”. one more scripture to be sure. Revelation 2:8 "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive”. we know that these designations in titles is the same PERSON.

Conclusion: the ONE who came after Elias (Elijah) was the LORD of host, OT, the Spirit. who is the Lord Jesus, NT, Spirit in flesh. The ONE and the same PERSON. So the Lord (NT) is the LORD (OT) in flesh. so the truth is that there is only one person in the GODHEAD and it's JESUS who is Lord and GOD/LORD just as the apostle Thomas said, John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God". Lord (NT), God (OT), same person.

Next time Fact #2.

 

[101G]

The Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit in the OT. (without flesh and bone)

Fact #2. 1 Peter 1:10-11 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow".
two question:a. the Holy Spirit in men, (prophets). b. this Spirit is Christ, one PERSON.
where in the bible is it that the Holy Spirit was in any man in the OT. not coming upon them but in them. scripture, Isaiah 63:10-14 "But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him? That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name? That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble? As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name”. well here's a good example. it was God who delivered the children of Israel from Egypt, and parted the red sea. yes the Holy Spirit, but was it not the LORD, all cap who brought the children out of Egypt? let's see, Leviticus 23:43 "That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God". well, well, well, the Holy Spirit is the LORD, (all cap) whom is called the FATHER. there are many verses like this one above, the LORD bring them out of Egypt. hold that thought, back to 1 Peter 1:10-11 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow". the Spirit of Christ was in the prophet. somebody said that Christ was in the Father... , well Christ Spirit was in the prophet who is God the Father. let's see, Jeremiah 1:4 "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying". the WORD of the LORD?, yes, the WORD is Jesus, HIS Spirit as Peter said, not someone else Spirit "HIS" Spirit. and "HIS" Spirit was in them (the prophets) to prophesy. so the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit who is the LORD, Same Spirit, meaning the SAME PERSON who was in the Prophets of old. supportive scripture, Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done", and we know that the Lord God of the Holy Prophets is the Lord Jesus, "HIS" Spirit was in them. if one read all these OT prophets, all of them have this same wording, or in some form or another, "the word of the LORD came unto me, saying", and he came by "HIS" Spirit. but let's continue.

1 Corinthians 10:4-5 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness". the apostle Paul speaking by God said the Rock was Christ which followed them in the wilderness, which were where they was overthrown. first let's see who this ROCK is in the OT. scripture, Deuteronomy 32:3-4 "Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he". so it's the God of the OT who is called the ROCK, and the apostle Paul said the ROCK is Christ. but was this the Lord Jesus in Flesh and bone? NO, listen again to the apostle Peter "the Spirit of Christ". and Moses the author of Deuteronomy said that the ROCK is a God of TRUTH. where have we heard this at before? John 14:16-17 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you". there's that Spirit of TRUTH Moses spoke about. the apostle Peter said it was Christ Spirit as well as the apostle Paul. this is back up by the prophet Moses. now for those who say, follow the apostolic teaching, well why are you not following the teaching?.

now let's put the icing on the cake. the apostle Paul said, in 1 Corinthians 10:4-5, that the ROCK, the Spirit of Truth, the Spirit of Christ, the COMFORTER was in the wilderness and overthrow them there because of their unbelief. Hebrews 3:7 "Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness". when did this provocation happen? Exodus 17:1-2 "And all the congregation of the children of Israel journeyed from the wilderness of Sin, after their journeys, according to the commandment of the LORD, and pitched in Rephidim: and there was no water for the people to drink. Wherefore the people did chide with Moses, and said, Give us water that we may drink. And Moses said unto them, Why chide ye with me? wherefore do ye tempt the LORD?". so it was the LORD (all caps) who was tempted,.... right... let's see. back to Hebrews 3:7 "Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)". who said this? Hebrews 3:7a "Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith)". but wait, was it not the LORD whom they tempted in the wilderness according to Exodus 17:1-2?. yes, the LORD (all caps), whom we now know is the Holy Spirit. what did the apostles Peter and Paul say. it was the Spirit of CHRIST, better known as the Spirit of TRUTH. the flesh and bones was not in the OT, but the Spirit was. Jesus Christ is the God of the OT in Spirit. this same Spirit is Called by many titles, "EVERLASTING FATHER", "The Spirit of TRUTH", "The Spirit of Glory", "The Oil of Joy", "The Spirit of Knowledge", "The Spirit of Counsel"...everyone should know this one, "The Spirit of Power", "The Spirit of Life", must I go on. these titles are found through out the OT as well as the NT. TITLES of the SAME Person, belonging to the Same PERSON, the ONE TRUE GOD. until next time.

 

[bbyrd009]

No one is good except the Father

 

[Helen]

Why is this important? Or is it?
Can man "really" state that he knows and understands the deep things of God? Or understand the workings of His mind?

 

[epostle1]

1 Corinthians 10:2-3 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat. And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ". this clearly tells me Christ was in the OT.

Yes, but not in written form. It's a Jewish tradition. How much is literal is a matter of debate.

 

[101G]

Yes, but not in written form. It's a Jewish tradition. How much is literal is a matter of debate.

Ok, tell us who baked this bread, Exodus 16:15 "And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat". Psalms 78:25 "Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full". John 6:31 "Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat". Oh, so it was written.... . Exodus 17:6 "Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel". 1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit".

under the cloud, and all passed through the sea? Exodus 13:21 "And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night". Exodus 14:22 "And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left".

it is written.

Peace in Christ Jesus.

 

[101G]

Why is this important? Or is it?
Can man "really" state that he knows and understands the deep things of God? Or understand the workings of His mind?

1 Corinthians 2:10 "But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God".

Matthew 13:10-17 "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them".

Peace in Christ Jesus.

 

[epostle1]

Ok, tell us who baked this bread, Exodus 16:15 "And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat". Psalms 78:25 "Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full". John 6:31 "Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat". Oh, so it was written.... . Exodus 17:6 "Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel". 1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit".

under the cloud, and all passed through the sea? Exodus 13:21 "And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night". Exodus 14:22 "And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left".

it is written.

Peace in Christ Jesus.

You haven't said anything about the rock that followed them in the OT, because it's not there.
Post the chapter and verse, the verses will come up automatically. Save your fingers, you don't need to text in half the Bible.

 

[101G]

You haven't said anything about the rock that followed them in the OT, because it's not there.
Post the chapter and verse, the verses will come up automatically. Save your fingers, you don't need to text in half the Bible.

Exodus 14:19 "And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them" was this the Lord in the angel? let's see.Read Nehemiah 9:7- 12 it was the LORD.

peace in Christ Jesus, if you need any other information on the LORD/JESUS In the OT, just ask.

 

[epostle1]

Exodus 14:19 "And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them" was this the Lord in the angel? let's see.Read Nehemiah 9:7- 12 it was the LORD.

peace in Christ Jesus, if you need any other information on the LORD/JESUS In the OT, just ask.

"Angel" and "Angel of the Lord" are used interchangeably.

Sometimes we miss things in the Bible, though they are right in front of us. Some of our Protestant brethren (mainly Calvinists but some other denominations as well) have an almost obsessive fear of any image associated with worship at all, thinking that all such manifestations are examples of idolatry and undue exaltation of a “graven image”. This has led some fanatical elements to oppose even crucifixes and statues of Christ as idols. In other words, all images whatsoever are collapsed in this wrongheaded mentality into the category of the “graven image” in the Ten Commandments. But the Bible doesn’t take this view at all. Here is one striking example:
Exodus 33:8-10

It’s also a supernatural manifestation, which is a major difference compared to any true idol made by the hands of men; but that would make no difference for those who mistakenly hold that any image whatsoever associated with God is impermissible. The problem comes when God Himself expressly sanctions such images, and worship in conjunction with them, as here.

The same iconoclasts (opposers of images) have to explain away things like the burning bush (Ex 3:2-6), which is not only fire, but also called an “angel of the Lord” (Ex 3:2), yet also “God” (3:4, 6, 11, 13-16, 18; 4:5, 7-8) and “the LORD” (3:7, 16, 18; 4:2, 4-6, 10-11, 14) interchangeably. An angel is a creation (as is fire and cloud); yet God chose to use a created being and inanimate objects to visibly represent Him. Several similar instances occur in the Old Testament. Moreover, the Jews “worshiped” fire as representative of God in the following passage:
2 Chronicles 7:1-4