Correct Grace, some follow to get fed by the loaves and fish, but not willing to count the cost. The cost of denying self, take up the cross and follow the Master..3 Imperatives in one verse
J.
Is Lordship salvation Biblical?
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Correct Grace, some follow to get fed by the loaves and fish, but not willing to count the cost. The cost of denying self, take up the cross and follow the Master..3 Imperatives in one verse
J.
Rom_10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
J.
Great verse.
Also, Luke 14:28 comes to mind.
One should count the cost before building a tower,
Jesus said he should consider the cost.
Right.
So actually belief IS enough....
But the Greek type of belief.
We are to believe means we are to accept Jesus'
teachings.
Not just intellectually believe.
What then are we to do? Is to savingly believe in Christ Jesus not enough?
What must we do to do the works of God?
J.
BELIE'VE, v.t. To credit upon the authority or testimony of another; to be persuaded of the truth of something upon the declaration of another, or upon evidence furnished by reasons, arguments, and deductions of the mind, or by other circumstances, than personal knowledge. When we believe upon the authority of another, we always put confidence in his veracity.
When we believe upon the authority of reasoning, arguments, or a concurrence of facts and circumstances, we rest our conclusions upon their strength or probability, their agreement with our own experience, &c.
2. To expect or hope with confidence; to trust.
I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Psa 27.
BELIE'VE, v.i. To have a firm persuasion of any thing. In some cases, to have full persuasion, approaching to certainty; in others, more doubt is implied. It is often followed by in or on, especially in the scriptures. To believe in, is to hold as the object of faith. "Ye believe in God, believe also in me." John 14. To believe on, is to trust, to place full confidence in, to rest upon with faith. "To them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name."
John 1. Johnson. But there is no ground for much distinction.
In theology, to believe sometimes expresses a mere assent of the understanding to the truths of the gospel; as in the case of Simon. Acts 8. In others, the word implies, with this assent of the mind, a yielding of the will and affections, accompanied with a humble reliance on Christ for salvation. John 1:12. 3.15.
In popular use and familiar discourse, to believe often expresses an opinion in a vague manner, without a very exact estimate of evidence, noting a mere preponderance of opinion, and is nearly equivalent to think or suppose.
Webster
J.
The term "Lordship Salvation" is very misleading. The question all Christians should ask themselves is this: "Has God Himself declared that Jesus is BOTH Lord and Christ (Messiah = the Anointed One = Savior)?
And the answer is found in Acts 2:36: Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
So salvation means receiving Christ as both LORD and Savior. In fact the stress is on believing on the LORD Jesus Christ and calling upon the name of the LORD.
ROMANS 10: CHRIST IS LORD
8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Our friend @Johann probably has an advantage in objectivity since English is not his first language.
What's really amazing is the way you scour the forum looking for people to insult and Calvinize.
Did you ever think of (oops, almost gave you some advice to help you advance your cause).
So we do have a "choice" (free will) in believing on the Lord Christ Jesus as Savior or the choice to reject Christ Jesus?
J
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Yet those 2 verses (9 & 11 there) are contradicted by many verses in Scripture elsewhere. Therefore, as diligent students of the Bible, we must consider the full weight of Scripture as a whole in order to understand God's mind on these matters.
And if one is drowning, and a hand is presented to help, it matters not if it's simple OR complicated, it is the only choice available.
God didn't say you can do it My way or another's way. He says My Way leads to Salvation; and there is no other way.
Shall we be picky?
God's Way is the only Way; and it requires conditions.
That of following the example of Christ and obeying the Commandments.
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I talk about Lordship Salvation. but that is coming from my understanding of what it's all about and not others that may make such a claim are on about.
I pointed such out to a religious mate up the road and he went off his rocker, but he was not on the same page as me on the subject at all but was on about another issue in regards to what some others may claim that Lordship Salvation is.
So one could mention Lordship Salvation and such an issue is not on the same page at all in such regards.
I just came to the subject of Lordship Salvation on my own merit, that such was the Key ? One must abide in Christ Jesus is the Key ! and anyone who try's to deviate from such is the work of the Devil.
Old mate went off the deep end when I mentioned Lordship Salvation, I do not know what he was on about, as to who or what he was relating to, but such had nothing to do with were I was coming from. All of what he is brainwashed into is coming from something that is slanted off course, such is to lead one astray.
When I tried to point out what he was saying was nothing to do with what I am talking about, he just did the usual Nazi like rant and would not listen to me at all.
Everything is regimented with him, he is the only one to make any claims on what is what, everyone other is wrong ! you are not allowed to think
for yourself.
Only his religion is right and he only takes orders from other idiots in his religion and does not understand jack about the Holy Spirit, but in fact rejects such and in reality to him Jesus Christ is not the Saviour ? but the Jews are ? he is a Jews for Jesus idiot.
They are not truly on about Christ Jesus at all in fact, sure they claim to be representing who you think that are ? but that is not truly the case, they are looking for another ! They hate Christ Jesus in fact.
They make up their own Salvation ! it's a Mans works salvation but ! but but but ! such is hidden as not to say Mans works ? he will go off the rocker if you say that. but it is a Mans works salvation, they just do not say such ? because everything they are on about is nothing to do with the Holy Spirit but another spirit ?
He slips directly into Mans works after saying such, Look what his Mob have done he points out ! See ?
But he does not have eyes to see or hear the Holy Spirit ? so he is on about another ? such is all about This world in fact ! just like any atheist or religious idiot. Religion never Saved anyone ! only Jesus Christ Saves ones Soul.
Old mate claims to save people, just by getting one to repeat words he says to you and then he proclaims one to be saved so he has notched up points to his god in doing so how stupid.
Whenever you get a person who rants like Hitler ! be sure to be sure they are only hiding behind the rants, if they can not come down to talk to you one on one and listen to you, they are not worthy of God.
I pointed such out to a religious mate up the road and he went off his rocker, but he was not on the same page as me on the subject at all but was on about another issue in regards to what some others may claim that Lordship Salvation is.
So one could mention Lordship Salvation and such an issue is not on the same page at all in such regards.
I just came to the subject of Lordship Salvation on my own merit, that such was the Key ? One must abide in Christ Jesus is the Key ! and anyone who try's to deviate from such is the work of the Devil.
Old mate went off the deep end when I mentioned Lordship Salvation, I do not know what he was on about, as to who or what he was relating to, but such had nothing to do with were I was coming from. All of what he is brainwashed into is coming from something that is slanted off course, such is to lead one astray.
When I tried to point out what he was saying was nothing to do with what I am talking about, he just did the usual Nazi like rant and would not listen to me at all.
Everything is regimented with him, he is the only one to make any claims on what is what, everyone other is wrong ! you are not allowed to think
for yourself.
Only his religion is right and he only takes orders from other idiots in his religion and does not understand jack about the Holy Spirit, but in fact rejects such and in reality to him Jesus Christ is not the Saviour ? but the Jews are ? he is a Jews for Jesus idiot.
They are not truly on about Christ Jesus at all in fact, sure they claim to be representing who you think that are ? but that is not truly the case, they are looking for another ! They hate Christ Jesus in fact.
They make up their own Salvation ! it's a Mans works salvation but ! but but but ! such is hidden as not to say Mans works ? he will go off the rocker if you say that. but it is a Mans works salvation, they just do not say such ? because everything they are on about is nothing to do with the Holy Spirit but another spirit ?
He slips directly into Mans works after saying such, Look what his Mob have done he points out ! See ?
But he does not have eyes to see or hear the Holy Spirit ? so he is on about another ? such is all about This world in fact ! just like any atheist or religious idiot. Religion never Saved anyone ! only Jesus Christ Saves ones Soul.
Old mate claims to save people, just by getting one to repeat words he says to you and then he proclaims one to be saved
so he has notched up points to his god in doing so how stupid. Whenever you get a person who rants like Hitler ! be sure to be sure they are only hiding behind the rants, if they can not come down to talk to you one on one and listen to you, they are not worthy of God.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Only if mixed with faith; and faith is a gift from God.
Hebrews 4:2
Ephesians 2:8
But believing (faith) is still not enough to be accepted into heaven.
Jesus tells us there are conditions to even receive the Holy Spirit; and receiving the Holy Spirit is when God really "knows" (enters) us.
John 14:21-23
And what did Jesus say to those believers who cried "Lord, Lord", but He turned away??
He said "depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you."
Matthew 7:23
A worker of iniquity is somebody that lives in sin and sets an example of sin for all those around them, ultimately working more iniquity into the society that they live within.
Those who live in sin, working iniquity (breaking the Commandments), will not ever have God (the Holy Spirit) enter into them ... and thus will not be allowed into heaven.
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Correct. But believing on Christ as Savior automatically means believing on Christ as Lord. That is what we see in Scripture.
Which clearly shows me that the 5 foolish virgins
and the "lord, lord, ..." were never saved at all.
J
Earburner
Well-Known Member
The true believers, are those who have become Born Again of God's Holy Spirit. John 3:3-8, Romans 8:8-9.
However, having said that, there are many who are Born again, but have not effectively walked in His Spirit while in this life, and therefore have hardly scratched the surface of what it means to have the Mind of Christ. Iows, they have not allowed the Spirit of God to overtake/consume their mind [will] by His Mind [Will].
Does that mean that God will reject them for having faith by the Spirit, trusting in only the foundation of Jesus Christ, which was laid in them for their salvation?
Though the Holy Spirit may be in them, it is by that reason alone shall all of such be saved.
Gal.4[19] My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,.....
To what level that Christ is formed within those of us who ARE Born Again, only God knows.
For those who are born again, Paul says this:
1Cor.3[9] For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
[10] According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
[11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
[12] Now if any man build upon
this foundation [vs. 11] gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
[16] Know YE not that YE [both plural and singularly] ARE the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
[17] If any man [both singularly and plural] defile [destroy- Strongs 5351] the temple of God [both singularly and plural], him shall God destroy [Strongs 5351]; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are [both singularly and plural].
[18] Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise [by the wisdom of men*] in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. *1 Corinthians 2:5
[19] For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
[20] And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
[21] Therefore let no man glory in men*. For all things are yours; [again 1 Cor. 2:5].
[22] Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
[23] And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
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