Is our soul electrical ... ?

[Arnie Manitoba]

When we die our physical body is buried in the cemetery but our soul continues

Our soul is invisible and probably can travel through walls or buildings and can travel all the way to heaven or wherever souls go.

We beleive our personality and our memory is preserved in our soul

Often this is hard for us to understand or comprehend

Or is it .... ?

When we consider that all the information in the world and on every computer can be sent around the world in the form of electrical energy ..... the internet and most telecomunications are simply information transformed into electricity and sent through space , and walls and buildings ... or to the moon if we wanted.

We cannot grasp , touch , or see these electrical radio waves yet they can arrive on the other side of the world and all the information is intact.

Our bodies are run by electrical signals originating in our brains.

If our brain and memory are actually in the form of electricity .... all of a sudden it is not so hard for us to grasp how the total of our essense (soul) could be preserved forever in an invisible manner.

comments welcome

 

[justaname]

I do not believe that the soul is electricity. Electricity can be generated, whereas souls can not be. Electricity can be harnessed and manipulated, souls can not.

I can and do entertain the idea that the soul is a form of energy, although that form is yet to be defined in a scientific manner.

E=MC2

 

[Rex]

I don't want to derail your thread but I find another scientific experiment more fascinating. The speed of light and or electricity, radio waves are very limited in the context of the vast distances of the universe. Billions of years for information to even be beginning a trip across the universe.

Particles and more to the point electrons in 1982 were discovered to have a fascinating capability. Some call it the hologram universe but the evidence suggest that "sister" particles know what the other is doing and respond in the same manner instantaneously no matter what the distance between them is. Example; say these electrons are billions of miles apart and the one nearest you has pushed to the right, the action would immediately be duplicated a billion miles away. Where as light and radio waves would take considerably longer.

http://www.earthportals.com/hologram.html
He called it spooky action at a distance.
INSTANT COMMUNICATION 10 BILLION MILES APART
Alain Aspect and his team discovered that under certain circumstances subatomic particles such as electrons are able to instantaneously communicate with each other regardless of the distance separating them.

It doesn't matter whether they are 10 feet or 10 billion miles apart.

This passage of scripture reminds me of the characteristics of a hologram below
quote; When the film is developed, it looks like a meaningless swirl of light and dark lines. But as soon as the developed film is illuminated by another laser beam, a three-dimensional image of the original object appears.

2 Kings 6
14 Therefore he sent horses and chariots and a great army there, and they came by night and surrounded the city. 15 And when the servant of the man of God arose early and went out, there was an army, surrounding the city with horses and chariots. And his servant said to him, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?”
16 So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 17 And Elisha prayed, and said, “Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. 18 So when the Syrians came down to him, Elisha prayed to the Lord, and said, “Strike this people, I pray, with blindness.” And He struck them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.



To understand why Bohm makes this startling assertion, one must first understand a little about holograms. A hologram is a three- dimensional photograph made with the aid of a laser. To make a hologram, the object to be photographed is first bathed in the light of a laser beam. Then a second laser beam is bounced off the reflected light of the first and the resulting interference pattern (the area where the two laser beams commingle) is captured on film. When the film is developed, it looks like a meaningless swirl of light and dark lines. But as soon as the developed film is illuminated by another laser beam, a three-dimensional image of the original object appears. The three-dimensionality of such images is not the only remarkable characteristic of holograms. If a hologram of a rose is cut in half and then illuminated by a laser, each half will still be found to contain the entire image of the rose. Indeed, even if the halves are divided again, each snippet of film will always be found to contain a smaller but intact version of the original image. Unlike normal photographs, every part of a hologram contains all the information possessed by the whole. The "whole in every part" nature of a hologram provides us with an entirely new way of understanding organization and order. For most of its history, Western science has labored under the bias that the best way to understand a physical phenomenon, whether a frog or an atom, is to dissect it and study its respective parts.

 

[tim_from_pa]

An interesting topic, but something for sci fi. Sorry, the soul does not continue after death because man is not immortal. Instead, he will be resurrected. So, some ghost does not float around in space any more than my files on a wifi network when my computer dies. It's ridiculous to believe that these files, just because they were once broadcasted, are floating around yet once the hardware dies.

 

[Rex]

I'm certainly not trying to explain God using E=MC /squared

But I do see metaphors like the body of Christ in a true hologram image.
If a hologram of a rose is cut in half and then illuminated by a laser, each half will still be found to contain the entire image of the rose. Indeed, even if the halves are divided again, each snippet of film will always be found to contain a smaller but intact version of the original image.

As well as another in the HS, the unknown relationship between practicals in spite of location, each knows what the other is doing and science has no clue about the how the information is shared.

You know as well as I do someone will make it a pillar of theology but it is interesting.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I do not believe that the soul is electricity. Electricity can be generated, whereas souls can not be. Electricity can be harnessed and manipulated, souls can not.

I can and do entertain the idea that the soul is a form of energy, although that form is yet to be defined in a scientific manner.

E=MC2

.
i agree that the souls are not simply something generated or simply electricity ..... but maybe what I am saying (thinking) is that if all the elecrictal signals in our brain were preserved after death ..... then maybe that is how we are preserved until the ressurection ....... sheesh ..... hard to find the right words

An interesting topic, but something for sci fi. Sorry, the soul does not continue after death because man is not immortal. Instead, he will be resurrected. So, some ghost does not float around in space any more than my files on a wifi network when my computer dies. It's ridiculous to believe that these files, just because they were once broadcasted, are floating around yet once the hardware dies.

actually I am not thinking sci fi stuff at all ..... I'm trying to be very rational .... for kind of a strange reason which i will get to in a minute.

I dont agree with you when you say the soul does not continue after death .... maybe soul is the wrong word and we should say our Spirit continues after death .... then at the ressurection "our Spirit" is joined with our new body ..... something like that ..... there has to be a connection from here to there otherwise we would not be "the same person" at the ressurection .... there HAS to be a carryover from here to there.

I have been thinking about this since last year .... an athiest freind asked me how I figured a person has a "soul" or a "spirit" that continues after death .... I replied right back with the following ...... I said if we took all the information contained in all the comuters in the world , could we not use a sattelite dish and beam it all the way to Mars as a radio signal .... he agreed of course ......

If we destroyed that big computer an instant later ..... would all the information still exist as an electrical radio wave headed for Mars ..... he though it over for a minute and said yes .....

I'm certainly not trying to explain God using E=MC /squared

But I do see metaphors like the body of Christ in a true hologram image.
If a hologram of a rose is cut in half and then illuminated by a laser, each half will still be found to contain the entire image of the rose. Indeed, even if the halves are divided again, each snippet of film will always be found to contain a smaller but intact version of the original image.

As well as another in the HS, the unknown relationship between practicals in spite of location, each knows what the other is doing and science has no clue about the how the information is shared.

You know as well as I do someone will make it a pillar of theology but it is interesting.

.
Hey Rex ..... I'm not trying to say anything theological at all (in case that is what you thought) ..... it is more like I am using cold dry factual physics to make a scientific claim that indeed a person could continue after death as an ... "electrical memory" ... (hate those words but they will have to do for now)

Here is why:
First of all it is true that physics would agree that we could take a huge amount of (computer) information and convert it to radio signals (which are electricity ) and beam it to the ends of the universe , or across town , or where ever.

It is also a fact that our whole body is run by electric signals from our brains .... and it is when those electric brain signals stop ..... our heart stops .... our organs stop .... our lungs stop .... and we die

It is also a fact that energy (electricity) cannot be destroyed .... so those same electrical signals that were in our brain STILL EXIST even after we die.

Thus it is not a great leap of faith to say , at the very least physics allows "a part of us" to remain that is seperate from our meat and bones they put in the grave.

Albert would love this thread e=mc2

 

[tim_from_pa]

I dont agree with you when you say the soul does not continue after death .... maybe soul is the wrong word and we should say our Spirit continues after death .... then at the ressurection "our Spirit" is joined with our new body ..... something like that ..... there has to be a connection from here to there otherwise we would not be "the same person" at the ressurection .... there HAS to be a carryover from here to there.

I don't follow that at all. Man is a soul, and is created as such, and the "soul that sins shall die". A dead person does not know anything.

In the Christian's case, they are raised a spiritual body (that's not the case with everyone, but bare with me). Now, if the spirit is separated from the body, and is already a spirit, what's the point of a resurrection? There would be no need.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit (new birth). One is raised a spirit being, thus being born into God's (Yahweh"s) family, and not before.

For that reason, I don't believe in an immortal soul, and can't find one stitch of scripture that teaches it. I can find scripture where man was deceived into thinking he would not die (thus immortal), but nothing that says he is inherently immortal. That is granted when one receives eternal life.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I don't follow that at all. Man is a soul, and is created as such, and the "soul that sins shall die". A dead person does not know anything.

In the Christian's case, they are raised a spiritual body (that's not the case with everyone, but bare with me). Now, if the spirit is separated from the body, and is already a spirit, what's the point of a resurrection? There would be no need.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit (new birth). One is raised a spirit being, thus being born into God's (Yahweh"s) family, and not before.

For that reason, I don't believe in an immortal soul, and can't find one stitch of scripture that teaches it. I can find scripture where man was deceived into thinking he would not die (thus immortal), but nothing that says he is inherently immortal. That is granted when one receives eternal life.

Hi Tim ..... either we have completely misunderstood each other ..... or we are saying the same thing using different terminology.

I feel that when we die ..... ( I am talking about our fleshly body ) ....... something still remains ...... something continues ....... call it our spirit ..... or our soul ..... or whatever ..... but definately something remains ... it goes to be with the Lord .... or wherever .... until the ressurection.

Do you agree ?
thanks

ps: ..... I agree with what you said ....... "we are raised as a spiritual body " ...... but before we are raised what are we ???? ...... absolutely nothing ....???? that would not work ..... our "spirits" remain somewhere (exist) until we are raised ......... we are even given some examples .... the poor man and rich man who had died ..... jesus preached in hades to the departed ..... etc

 

[tim_from_pa]

Hi Tim ..... either we have completely misunderstood each other ..... or we are saying the same thing using different terminology.

I feel that when we die ..... ( I am talking about our fleshly body ) ....... something still remains ...... something continues ....... call it our spirit ..... or our soul ..... or whatever ..... but definately something remains ... it goes to be with the Lord .... or wherever .... until the ressurection.

Do you agree ?
thanks

ps: ..... I agree with what you said ....... "we are raised as a spiritual body " ...... but before we are raised what are we ???? ...... absolutely nothing ....???? that would not work ..... our "spirits" remain somewhere (exist) until we are raised ......... we are even given some examples .... the poor man and rich man who had died ..... jesus preached in hades to the departed ..... etc

Well, to compare to a computer, the software would be analogues to the spirit (the soul the electrical power or life to run the hardware), so yeah I suppose God (Yahweh) stores us, the imprint of all of our being, until the resurrection. But some seem to think we're conscious ghosts running around in heaven waiting for some sort of body again. We are not conscious when we are having an operation, or again during some sleeping time because the body is in the state it is in, and the same with death.

As for the poorman/richman parable, keep in mind it's just that: a parable and is not meant to say where someone goes at death. Jesus spoke in obscure parables as prophesied so that only those with ears could hear. I see too many being taken literally and that is not right so I rather leave this parable out of the mix.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Well, to compare to a computer, the software would be analogues to the spirit (the soul the electrical power or life to run the hardware), so yeah I suppose God (Yahweh) stores us, the imprint of all of our being, until the resurrection. But some seem to think we're conscious ghosts running around in heaven waiting for some sort of body again. We are not conscious when we are having an operation, or again during some sleeping time because the body is in the state it is in, and the same with death.

As for the poorman/richman parable, keep in mind it's just that: a parable and is not meant to say where someone goes at death. Jesus spoke in obscure parables as prophesied so that only those with ears could hear. I see too many being taken literally and that is not right so I rather leave this parable out of the mix.

I feel you have dodged my question a bit .... but that is fine ..... I feel there are many more examples given in the bible that indicate "our personality" remains (somewhere) after death.

I have used some (poor) examples of how huge amounts of information (computers) can remain in the ether .... even if we destroy the original computer itself

My analogy was that our "personal information" can also exist in the ether after death without even breaking the laws of secular physics

I said that based on the brain operating on "electrical impulses" ..... which the medical profession properly calls neurons .... or motor nuerons (electrical brain signals)

(brief medical Definition)
A Neuron is an electrically excitable cell that processes and transmits information through electrical signals
Neurons are specialized to transmit information throughout the body.
Unlike other body cells, neurons stop reproducing shortly after birth.
Death is normally proclaimed when the neurons have stopped and the brain no longer functions

........ so yeah I suppose God (Yahweh) stores us, the imprint of all of our being, until the resurrection.

I agree ...... and I think that is what i meant all along tim ..... I call it our soul, or spirit , or whatever but " the imprint of all of our being" is also an accurate way to describe it .

I guess that brings us right back to my original theory ...... does the the imprint of all of our being survive in an electrical form

I see it as a distinct possibility ..... although it really doesnt matter one way or another ..... that is up to God how he does it anyway

But I feel it is a good point to make when a brilliant athiest scientists tries to poo-poo the notion that it is not possible for the the imprint of all of our being to survive after death

Whew ..... if anyone has followed my reasoning ..... you are genius

I wish Albert was here ..... he would love the topic e=mc2

 

[notforgotten]

I do not believe that the spirit has anything to do with electricity because electricity can not influence it. The spirit can travel through walls and of course clear uo to the Kingdom of Heaven with help from the powers of the invisible spirit world.. I do not believe that we are our bodies. We are spirits and our personality is preserved, but we lose our memories without god. The Holy Spirit (Spirit of Life) is what gives us life in the human body, without him we could not live in this visible world.

 

[tim_from_pa]

I do not believe that the spirit has anything to do with electricity because electricity can not influence it. The spirit can travel through walls and of course clear uo to the Kingdom of Heaven with help from the powers of the invisible spirit world.. I do not believe that we are our bodies. We are spirits and our personality is preserved, but we lose our memories without god. The Holy Spirit (Spirit of Life) is what gives us life in the human body, without him we could not live in this visible world.

Obviously you have not been watching enough ghost hunter shows where spirits make their EMF meters go wild.

Just kidding.

 

[Rex]

Funny but sad

You'll wish you had one of these "in the last days" to protect you from demon deception, they can not penetrate the powerful magnetic field
Protecting you from demon causing ailments 24-7 no batteries to replace or wear-out, satan and his buddies will disappear immediately. For a suggested donation of just 9.97 you to can experience the soul soothing effects today. Combines he most powerful forces of Heaven and Earth.


No ill intent to the OP

And heres the link that
COMBINES POWERFUL FORCES FROM HEAVEN AND EARTH
all for 9.97 http://www.dreamproductscatalog.com/copper-magnetic-therapy-jesus-bracelet.html

 

[biggandyy]

I want one! Especially the free surprise gift with every order!

 

[tim_from_pa]

So, that's how Jesus did it? With magnets. Should have known. :lol:

 

[Axehead]

The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus cannot be compared to electricity and is something that Scientists know nothing about if trying to understand it by their 5 human senses.

Regarding life after death, Paul writes:

“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. ” (2 Corinthians 5:6-8)

The true child of God has passed from death into life by virtue of receiving Christ Jesus for he that hath the Son hath life and he that hath not the Son hath not life. The true child of God has already begun living their eternal life, now in this physical realm.

The point of 2 Cor 5:6-8 is simple enough: death for the Christian means immediate entrance into the glorious light of the presence of Jesus Christ.

Paul understood that to be absent from the flesh is to be with the Lord. There was no "in between" place that the child of God will go to and neither will their spirit stay in the grave.
Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Php 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

Axehead

 

[veteran]

Trusting in our flesh is fallacy.

Apostle Paul in 1 Cor.15 about the resurrection said flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. He was speaking of two different types of bodies in regard to a 'natural body' and a 'spiritual body'. He also labeled them as the "image of the earthy" vs. the "image of the heavenly."

God's Word gives specifics about the difference between spirit and flesh, even in regards to their separation at flesh death (Eccl.12:5-7). Jesus made the distinction in John 3, and also espcially in Matt.22:30 with saying those of the resurrection are like the angels of God in heaven.

That's about two separate dimensions of existence. So which one is the more REAL?

Not difficult to discover the answer to that per God's Word. What does one think existed PRIOR to God created the earth and the universe?

2 Cor 4:14-18
14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.
16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
(KJV)


If our "outward man" perishes, yet our "inward man is renewed day by day", then are those both the same thing? Obviously not. Would Christ raise something the "outward man" that perishes, or raise the "inward man" that is renewed day by day?

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus cannot be compared to electricity and is something that Scientists know nothing about if trying to understand it by their 5 human senses.
Axehead

As a Christian I certainly agree with you axehead ....
............

My discussions with scientists was purely secular in the sense that (if) our total personality was contained in the (electrical) motor-neurons in our brain ..... then we could indeed have "something" that survives after death.

Just the same as beaming out a torrent of information from a huge computer .... then destroying the computer ..... the information still exists.

The secular scientists will not accept my religious belief that we can survive after death ..... but when I use accepted secular physics I am able to prove the possibility to him.

..... and of course my motive is to make the scientist consider religion (Christ)

.... and I also enjoy winning my (religious) argument using his own secular science.

.... and I also enjoy showing him that we Christians are not simply a bunch of idiots

 

[Axehead]

As a Christian I certainly agree with you axehead ....
............

My discussions with scientists was purely secular in the sense that (if) our total personality was contained in the (electrical) motor-neurons in our brain ..... then we could indeed have "something" that survives after death.

Just the same as beaming out a torrent of information from a huge computer .... then destroying the computer ..... the information still exists.

The secular scientists will not accept my religious belief that we can survive after death ..... but when I use accepted secular physics I am able to prove the possibility to him.

..... and of course my motive is to make the scientist consider religion (Christ)

.... and I also enjoy winning my (religious) argument using his own secular science.

.... and I also enjoy showing him that we Christians are not simply a bunch of idiots

I understand. Thanks for explaining your position, Arnie.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Isn't Jesus the LIGHT of the world? Aren't we to be illuminated? Aren't we to shine bright like the stars? Wasn't Moses face sun burnt from the glory of God?
Wasn't the Ark of the covenant so dangerous that it seem to have electrical charge? Are we to be clothed in the Light of the Word? Isn't the Menorah representing 7,000 light years and the 4th light is Jesus? Are the two witnesses the two lampstands that stand before the throne of God? Yes we can understand that the Word of God is light but it is REALLY a light and the Spirit is oil for our lamps/vessels/bodies.
When God said let there be light.. The Light was Jesus the Word of life. The sun and moon were not created until the 4th day. Our Father is the Father of lights.
Dan 12:3
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
KJV
Matt 17:2-3
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
KJV
Matt 13:43
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
KJV

Luke 12:35
35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
KJV
Acts 20:8
8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
KJV
Phil 2:15
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
KJV
James 1:17
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
KJV
Luke 11:36
36 If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.
KJV
John 1:4-5
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
KJV
Rev 21:23-24
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
KJV

Blessings

Hi Tim ..... either we have completely misunderstood each other ..... or we are saying the same thing using different terminology.

I feel that when we die ..... ( I am talking about our fleshly body ) ....... something still remains ...... something continues ....... call it our spirit ..... or our soul ..... or whatever ..... but definately something remains ... it goes to be with the Lord .... or wherever .... until the ressurection.

Do you agree ?
thanks

ps: ..... I agree with what you said ....... "we are raised as a spiritual body " ...... but before we are raised what are we ???? ...... absolutely nothing ....???? that would not work ..... our "spirits" remain somewhere (exist) until we are raised ......... we are even given some examples .... the poor man and rich man who had died ..... jesus preached in hades to the departed ..... etc

That is right Arnie, our soul and spirit remain otherwise we would not be the same nor have memory of who we are. We are a spirit and we have a soul and we live in a body Example of us retaining our memory is not only Jesus.. but Lazarus. As I just seen that you already said, The rich man and the beggar Lazarus had memory of his brothers, of Lazarus, felt heat, was exhausted by no rest, was thirsty and could see and talk etc... Samuel when Saul imployed a sueth sayer to summon Samuel from his resting in the bosom of Abraham PERCEIVED, meaning KNEW that is was Samuel who came forth and Samuel even prophesised to Saul of how him and his sons would die tommorrow for Saul's unbelief. I say unbelief because if Saul believed in God, he would have known that God would know that he had contacted the sueth sayer and would not have broken the law. And how did Peter and John know that it was Moses and Elijah at the transfiguration? This is also why the 7,000 OT saints that God has reserved from Himself have to be the same Jewish remnant and why I believe they are alive to this day and will die in the earthquake just after the two witnesses go up and just before the body of Christ are birthed in Rev 11-12

Also Arnie, that is another thing about the Feast of Tabernacles. Remember at the transfiguration of their bodies that Peter and John asked Jesus should they make a tabernacle for each of them? Just another hint of how the Feast of Tabernacles is the rehersal for the rapture where are bodies are glorified.
Blessings

Blessings