(Super Kal;55363)
well, tnhose two mean the same thing according to the Greek texts: 1. without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be 2. without beginning 3. without end, never to cease, everlasting it's that "forever and ever" term we have to look at more. just for the record, that term also has 3 different meanings: 1. for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity 2. the worlds, universe 3. period of time, age now from looking at this, I can definitely see what Kriss is saying, because just the mention of time and age, and how there will be 3 different earth ages... also, if God said there would no longer be sin in the new heaven and new earth, that wouldn't be possible if Satan were to still exist... in order for there to be no sin, it has to be destroyed, otherwise God said a lie, but we know that He is incapable of lying
Yea, it is impossible for Death (Satan) to enter the Final Earth Age. (Third Earth Age) God said that a soul can die. (Ezekiel 18:4, Ezekiel 18:20) Satan is judged to die already. (Ezekiel 28:18) After all, did not Christ say that Heaven and Earth shall pass away? (Matthew 24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33) And God said that He shall create the "new Heaven and new Earth" and the former shall not be remembered. (Isaiah 65:17)As you can see, the second death has to be existed (Revelation 20:14) before the Final Earth Age to come.(waquinas;55362)
Jag,you did not explain the problem of the contrasting parallel and altering my understanding such that the writers parallel is no longer valid.But I will answer your questions.How can someone die a second time? I suppose the same way people could be said to be born a second time. If death for some ultimately results in a transformation to a glorified being, then they are no longer what they were before, they have been transformed. I see nothing wrong with explaining a second death of those in an eternal fire in terms of a transformation to the opposite of those going the other way, which would be something no longer recognizable as human. If those in eternal fire are the opposite of what we could only describe as being "fully" human-those in Heaven, then seeing them as transformed by that "second death" into something else does not violate our definition of death. Just like the ashes of the log on the fire represent what is left of a tree can be seen as a transformation rather than an annihilation. Something remains, the tree was transformed to gas and carbons, it is certainly no longer a tree or anything resembling a tree but something does remain. Does our flesh cease to exist after our death?Of course, but we do not cease, we are not annihilated in that death. Why should we claim the second death requires annihilation while admitting the first death obviously does not? Obviously death does not HAVE TO mean annihilation in either of our views. We should also distinguish what the Bible clearly states is a corruptible body with the bodies that will be resurrected in the end. (most with our view assume everyone gets a new body)How about this a log and a fire? We see that the log gets burned by fire. Does a log gets burned forever? or does the fire cease to exist overtime? The analogy is not perfect. Lets start by saying no fire on earth in my experience is eternal, so no the fire does not burn the log forever. Neither is a tree seen as something immortal, as all humans are said to be. But even in this caseThe Bible clearly says this is an eternal fire, that never goes out. God does not create things with out purpose. If we believe He can make an eternal fire explicitly for the fate of unrepentant sinners, then there must be a reason for it burning eternally. Could God annihilate us all? Absolutely. However if it was created for their fate as an everlasting fire and they are immortal, then I cannot see the point of their being annihilated there.
It is true, that we do not get annihilated after our first death. Besides our flesh body ain't our original body anyway. But souls who follow Satan will likely die the second death. Without the soul, our body can't move or operate.The second Birth is mentioned in John 3:5-6. What is born of the Spirit? It is referred to John 4:24. Likewise the second death is clearly referred in number of places. (Psalm 37:20, Psalm 68:2, John 3:16, Revelation 20:14 etc)