Is Reincarnation baloney?

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Mr E

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I just noticed you have not posted in a while.

If you end up reading this someday, just know that I have provided many verses, commentaries, links, references and case studies proving that reincarnation is a fundamental theme woven throughout Scripture. Remember, God is Love.

As you can see, there are many that ignore the verses I post and points I make due to extreme bias and cognitive dissonance. Some have even resorted to personal attacks which prove how spot-on my information is. As usual, there is a majority of folks that simply cannot handle Truth. Their responses are dishonest, condescending, rude and nasty. They are the exact opposite of everything Jesus taught us. This is a sign of severe indoctrination into false theology. It is a Cult really.

Dare I say...

Some may even have an agenda to keep this information hidden as to not ruin the money they make peddling their lies...

1 Timothy 6:10
"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."


I hate to think they do the bidding of Satan for free, but some folks are really lost like that, full of hatred, bitterness and even jealousy. This has been demonstrated many times in this thread already.

Sadly, this is the result of a lifetime of, "God will burn you to infinity and beyond!!!". They are a dying breed and feel very threatened by folks like me. Thank God their time has come and gone. Soon their endless lies will be a thing of the past and maybe we can have True Revival once more before the end comes.

How fragile you are. And what self-aggrandizing you indulge in.

There are several good observations you make, but unfortunately you draw so many false conclusions by inference and supposition it negates the value of anything you’ve surmised.

If you had to boil it all down into one or two paragraphs to summarize your thesis, what might that be? Could you?

I’m glad you recognize that we are the temple of the living God. His house. It’s hardly a new finding. It’s stated in scripture. It’s foundational. It’s basic. Not some dramatic discovery as you might think it to be, rather a beginning principle. You recognize the physical copy of the spiritual reality in that temple of stone and the elements within it, but you fail to recognize that the physical body too, is but an image of that same spiritual reality. It’s just another copy. It’s not the missing puzzle piece. It’s not the mystery. It’s only a reflection, a shadow, a likeness— as are all things.

You saw a mouse and built a magic kingdom.
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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lol :tearsofjoy: Great rebuttal.

Let me give you a real-world example. If I say I'm going to Worchestershire for a weekend, you'd correctly surmise that I'm going to a place. But if I say I like a little Worchestershire on my steak or meat pie, you'd know I was talking about the sauce of the same name. You wouldn't confuse one for the other and you wouldn't interchange the meaning intended just because they use the same word/name.

But you elect to do this with scripture. You would never use elohim the same in Gen 1 as you do in Ex 18 or 21 even though there is no contextual difference that demands the distinction. In fact you insist on a contextual difference in places like Gen 6 because you can't come to grips with the idea that ben elohim could be talking about the same elohim mentioned in Gen 1 and on.

You thrust and force your understanding upon the text. Why not adjust your understanding instead of such an attempt to adjust the text?

It is obvious that all you want to do is argue! You don't understand what I am saying, nor understand the use of Hebrew
 
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ByGraceThroughFaith

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It's a common understanding that the "sons of God" mentioned are angels.
That was why I said it was debatable. No need to fight about it, right?

Just because it is the "common" understanding, does not mean that it is right, or Biblical! To assert that the meaning of "ʼĕlôhîym" in Genesis 6:2, must mean "God", is nothing but speculation, and this cannot be proven wrong! The interpretation that it refers to "angels", is from the early Jewish Apocryphal books!
 

St. SteVen

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St. SteVen said:
It's a common understanding that the "sons of God" mentioned are angels.
That was why I said it was debatable. No need to fight about it, right?
Just because it is the "common" understanding, does not mean that it is right, or Biblical! To assert that the meaning of "ʼĕlôhîym" in Genesis 6:2, must mean "God", is nothing but speculation, and this cannot be proven wrong! The interpretation that it refers to "angels", is from the early Jewish Apocryphal books!
I see.
So you DO want to fight about it. Have fun. - LOL
Send pix. Thanks.
 
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Wrangler

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It's one thing to say that , J.R.R.Tolkein, William Golding, J.K. Rowlings, George Lucas and King George III might have had differing ideas and differing usages of the word "Lord" across multiple genres and hundreds of years.... you didn't really think you were going to get away with that, did you?
I'm not getting away with anything except proper word usage. It's not one thing. It's the same thing! Words have different senses, whether we like it or not. Neither elohim, lord, or god mean only the Creator.

There are literally dozens of lords in Scripture. None of them are referring to the Creator.

There are REAL lowercase gods in Scripture. The Creator YHWH acknowledged this himself in the 1C.
 

Wrangler

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In Genesis-- Moses is your story teller. He knows what/who LORD (Yahweh) is. He doesn't use that word to describe nor identify who it was that was doing the creating in Gen 1.

Why wouldn't he? Ever thought about it?
<sigh> Our Creator alone is sovereign. One can ask why he didn't do things differently - of YHWH or anyone else - but why, in the end, does it matter that people chose one path or another?

According to the NOG translation the first time the Creator's name is used is GE: 2:4 This is the account of heaven and earth when they were created, at the time when Yahweh Elohim made earth and heaven. The irony is its use precedes the more general term elohim. In this context, it is absurd to suppose elohim means the creator as it parodies the driods in Star Wars, "Roger, Roger." Rather the text differentiates the Creator, by name, among the heavenly beings previously mentioned in chapter 1.
 

Mr E

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I'm not getting away with anything except proper word usage. It's not one thing. It's the same thing! Words have different senses, whether we like it or not. Neither elohim, lord, or god mean only the Creator.

There are literally dozens of lords in Scripture. None of them are referring to the Creator.

There are REAL lowercase gods in Scripture. The Creator YHWH acknowledged this himself in the 1C.

Of course that's true-- words do have different senses, depending on their usage. That's my point.

<sigh> Our Creator alone is sovereign. One can ask why he didn't do things differently - of YHWH or anyone else - but why, in the end, does it matter that people chose one path or another?

According to the NOG translation the first time the Creator's name is used is GE: 2:4 This is the account of heaven and earth when they were created, at the time when Yahweh Elohim made earth and heaven. The irony is its use precedes the more general term elohim. In this context, it is absurd to suppose elohim means the creator as it parodies the driods in Star Wars, "Roger, Roger." Rather the text differentiates the Creator, by name, among the heavenly beings previously mentioned in chapter 1.

I'm not asking why 'Our Creator' does or did things differently.... but why MOSES did. Moses, chooses to use those words in different ways purposefully with intent to draw a distinction between how, why and when he uses them. It's not like it's a different person writing at a different time and place-- he's telling us the story of his understanding of how it all came about and he intentionally says it just the way he said it-- on purpose.

Secondly, it's not a single account. It's not the same story told two different ways-- well, it is, but that's not ALL it is. It's more like our friend @QuantumBit has discovered the temple to be.... not just one thing, and not the thing we might first perceive.

And stop jumping back and forth between the usage of LORD and God-- that's one thing that the translators didn't slip up on the way they slip-slide with eloheim and God and gods as if those usages are interchangeable. They realize that there is a difference when Moses is referring to this specific God by name. They often neglect to note the different uses elsewhere like in Gen 1:1 where that One is not referenced by name at all, rather the text refers to something else--- yet the translators choose for you and write (generic) God. It's given birth to confusion.

I agree with you in that the text actually does differentiate between the Creator-- those eloheim beings mentioned in Chapter 1 and one particular Eloheim, who we come to know by name.

This all fits quite well into this overall topic of incarnation and rebirth-- or re-incarnation, if you can tolerate the term. Many cannot.
 

Mr E

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pity you don't understand what I am saying, or the Hebrew language!

Again with the exclamation marks! You probably don't even realize you are doing it!

To assert that the meaning of "ʼĕlôhîym" in Genesis 6:2, must mean "God", is nothing but speculation, and this cannot be proven wrong!

I know a bit of Hebrew.... but here I give you the floor. Explain for me please, how the meaning of "ʼĕlôhîym" means something other than God in Genesis 1:1 -- that seems a good beginning point. Actually-- explain why it doesn't mean something other than God.

I'll wait.
 

Mr E

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Reincarnation is starting to look more like Pastrami than Baloney. - LOL

I like this.... much more presentable on a charcuterie board.

There are a couple of image/concepts that are helpful to get a better 'picture' of the principle of rebirth. For whatever reason, even though scripture is explicit in supplying the example of a seed that has life within it, falls, dies, is planted in the ground and lives again-- that's not the only illustration to point toward.

We have also the example recorded by Moses that comes in the form of the story of Jacob and that ladder he sees in spirit--- with the angels ascending and descending. @QuantumBit wants to call this DNA, and I don't actually have a problem with that association in that you can make the connection he does between biology and this spiritual dimension, where one is an image of the other-- angels are messengers after all, and the seed is the word, is the spirit, the son, the logos--- made flesh.

In fact God says so, even in this specific example of the coming down and going up of these 'angels' that Jacob sees in his vision.... relating what Jacob sees to his seed.

And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Of course our physical DNA doesn't fall from above or ascend to the heavens when we die, and this is where Qbit's model breaks down immediately, but I applaud his observation here nonetheless. It's a worthy recognition of the image, much better than what Moses thought and the unauthorized copy he made of those spiritual things he saw.

A much simpler example is the process of rainfall. I won't bother explaining how evaporation and condensation work since we all covered that in grade school. Rain falls from above, runs it's course and eventually ascends again in a never-ending cycle. These cycles and circles of descending and ascending are examples and parallels of this principle of rebirth-- the continuation of life (life cycles) or life everlasting, which apart from interruption continues eternally-- by design. We even call 'our seed' -descendants. Our fruit, our family tree.

As Qbit says-- it's all VERY biblical.
 
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Wrangler

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And stop jumping back and forth between the usage of LORD and God-- that's one thing that the translators didn't slip up on the way they slip-slide with eloheim and God and gods as if those usages are interchangeable.
Capitalization is intended to make a differentiation that is lost on people. That is why we MUST jump back and forth between lowercase-lord and YHWH, the Creator.

I’ve seen translations that refer to YHWH as lowercase-lord and capital-LORD. Although confusing, I do believe it to be correct in context. For instance, using the verb form, ‘I lorded it over you’ is not meant to assert the ‘I’ is the Creator YHWH.
 

Mantis

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Yes I think reincarnation is biblical. It's in the Bible from the lips of Jesus.
Matthew 17:12 - But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.”

I have come to fully reject Protestant Christian view of the Bible as well as the catholic. I think we have this all wrong. I think the church his worshiping the beast and doesn't even know it. Christ came here to give us a new doctrine, to release us from religion. YHWH is the beast.

Go read revelation 13 and then go read Hosea 13 and tell me who the beast is.....
 

Mr E

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And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

If a man dies, will he live again?
It's the heart of the gospel. It's what he taught- directly.

“I am the resurrection and the life.
The one who believes in me will live even if he dies, and the one who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”


Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.