Is Sound Doctrine Essential for Salvation?

[MatthewG]

Well, there were those who appeared 'faithful' and had set up a 'doctrine' but it wasnt sound as Jesus clearly showed...

Matthew 15:1-6
1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

If someone is teaching others it is okay to harm them, and shame them, and not show mercy or love, that is not the way of God. Surely those who are seeking him out faithfully will understand that murdering, and talking behind peoples back, are not things that come from the Spirit of Christ, nor the Holy Spirit of God. God is after all not only Spirit, but love.

 

[amigo de christo]

When inclusivians speak of love and mercy , BEWARE THEIR LOVE AND MERCY
for it points NOT to the LOVE OF GOD , of the DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST
and at its end WILL HAVE NO MERCY OF GOD . ALL WHO DENY JESUS CHRIST and all who thought or taught
it was okay for other religoins to just find common ground and there was no need to have to beleive on JESUS CHRIST
are gonna pay a dear deep heavy price . CAUSE Not only did they DO IT , THEY DID THIS IN JESUS NAME .
THEY TROD THE DIRE NEED TO HAVE TO BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST , AND THEY DID IT while USING HIS OWN NAME .
THAT IS A HORRENDOUS END .

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Hearing the word, repenting of sin, believing Jesus is our propitiation and accepting the " gift of salvation thru his D,B & R is the only means of salvation.

And... abiding IN Christ until the end.

 

[Hobie]

If someone is teaching others it is okay to harm them, and shame them, and not show mercy or love, that is not the way of God. Surely those who are seeking him out faithfully will understand that murdering, and talking behind peoples back, are not things that come from the Spirit of Christ, nor the Holy Spirit of God. God is after all not only Spirit, but love.

Yes, but we have churches today that are spreading a 'spirit' that has no connection to God and just gives and tell people, whatever the desires of the masses are, not good..

 

[Behold]

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

So what is needed?

What is needed is A verse that isn't talking to OT Jews, before the Cross was raised,.... is what is needed, if you are going to discuss Salvation that is "The Gift of Salvation", that is based on The CROSS of Christ.... as Paul teaches and taught us to PREACH and TEACH and SHARE.

Like this one...

" ALL who call on the name of JESUS.. .shall be saved".

or this one....

Jesus said..."ALL that believe in ME... i GIVE UNTO YOU... .Eternal life, and you shall never go to Hell (perish).."


John 3:16 is another good one.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, but we have churches today that are spreading a 'spirit' that has no connection to God and just gives and tell people, whatever the desires of the masses are, not good..

No one should ever put trust in any church, but Yahava himself. All you are able to do is simply pass on the message of how personal the relationship is, and what the production of abiding in the vine, and allowing the vinedresser to address the issues, if you allow him to in order to not be cut back, though all us through time have been cut back from time to time, by the LORD GOD.

Paul in his day, stated there are people who preach Christ out of strife and envy, while there are those who preach Christ out of love. Either way, Paul rejoiced that Jesus was even preached.

Expectation of a church, is one that has a person in there who desires to go through the bible and relay the information back to the people over time in order also for reptition to help retain information and growing and learning the gospel, the letters, even the old testament if it is possible. There are some who are well knowledged in one aspect, and one in another aspect, the over all desire though should be to teach the bible, and to stay and get as close you can to truth, hopefully by the holy spirit of God, and looking faithfully towards him, and having fellowship with him and his son.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

what about deaf people?

If a mute swears.... does his mom wash his hands with soap?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

When inclusivians speak of love and mercy , BEWARE THEIR LOVE AND MERCY

Exactly!

When one has inclusivians for friends, who needs enemies?

 

[amigo de christo]

No one should ever put trust in any church, but Yahava himself. All you are able to do is simply pass on the message of how personal the relationship is, and what the production of abiding in the vine, and allowing the vinedresser to address the issues, if you allow him to in order to not be cut back, though all us through time have been cut back from time to time, by the LORD GOD.

Paul in his day, stated there are people who preach Christ out of strife and envy, while there are those who preach Christ out of love. Either way, Paul rejoiced that Jesus was even preached.

Expectation of a church, is one that has a person in there who desires to go through the bible and relay the information back to the people over time in order also for reptition to help retain information and growing and learning the gospel, the letters, even the old testament if it is possible. There are some who are well knowledged in one aspect, and one in another aspect, the over all desire though should be to teach the bible, and to stay and get as close you can to truth, hopefully by the holy spirit of God, and looking faithfully towards him, and having fellowship with him and his son.

Lets look at that first sentence again shall we .........
No one should ever put trust in any church , but in GOD , JESUS , Yahava himself .
SOUNDS REAL GOOD . TILL you realize that many who often also say that have put their trust in
ANOTHER VERSION of that . MIGHT wanna flee inclusive universalism concepts . Might wanna stop
believing a lot of what YOU THINK IS LOVE to BE LOVE .
And you MIGHT wanna get a REAL FAT SNOOTFUL of some BIBLE . cause I HAPPEN TO KNOW GOD INSPIRED THAT BOOK .
I also happen to know many THINK they follow GOD and yet ......................OH DEAR and yet ...............THEY DONT .

 

[Wick Stick]

they get from the Bible depending on the preacher, and so what end up happening is you just keep shifting till you find one that fits your lifestyle, with no real change. Is that what Jesus put forth. We see the most basic elements at the start of Christs ministry...

Matthew 3:2
And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

So what is needed?

There are essentials and non-essentials.

The essentials are basically... the 10 commandments. Morality. Ethics.

Stuff like eschatology isn't really essential.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Stuff like eschatology isn't really essential.

Yeah, God's warnings about end times event that would keep people from getting deceived and ending up in eternal fire... we don't really need to pay attention to that stuff... or do we?

 

[quietthinker]

Yeah, God's warnings about end times event that would keep people from getting deceived and ending up in eternal fire... we don't really need to pay attention to that stuff... or do we?

Deception isn't about knowing every detail of the future. Deception is about not knowing Jesus. Deception walks the religious jargon line. The name of Jesus becomes the rubber stamp to validate 'future telling' and arguing endlessly about it.

The devils know the future. They have had time to study the scriptures in more detail than any man. They know exactly where to take a persons attention so the thing of importance is eclipsed.....and for the religious man, they take him/ her away from Jesus even while they give lip service to him.

You might consider my signature quote in red!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Deception is about not knowing Jesus

Yes, and many get an initial introduction to Jesus and stop right there... they don't grow much and they certainly don't study His Word to show themselves as being approved of God, rightly understanding His Word.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly understanding the word of truth.

What people DON'T know... can cause them to be separated from the Lord!

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

It's too bad lots of folks don't take time to get to know the Lord... which is primarily done thru knowing and understanding what He has said in His Word and being a doer of His Word so we don't get deceived. (James 1:22)

 

[Hobie]

What is needed is A verse that isn't talking to OT Jews, before the Cross was raised,.... is what is needed, if you are going to discuss Salvation that is "The Gift of Salvation", that is based on The CROSS of Christ.... as Paul teaches and taught us to PREACH and TEACH and SHARE.

Like this one...

" ALL who call on the name of JESUS.. .shall be saved".

or this one....

Jesus said..."ALL that believe in ME... i GIVE UNTO YOU... .Eternal life, and you shall never go to Hell (perish).."


John 3:16 is another good one.

So how do you see this...
Genesis 3:14-15
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 

[Behold]

So how do you see this...
Genesis 3:14-15
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Here he's not talking about the Devil.

Notice that after Jesus fasted for the 40.... the Devil came to Him and took Jesus to a place.
So, that's not a snake doing that...

Also, Paul said once that "Satan hindered us from coming there".. and again that is not a snake doing that.
That's the Devil causing that and doing that.

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

"her seed" is the Son of God.. And of course the Devil is always against God, Christ, and the Born again.

The Devil's seed, are these....

John 3:36

Its every unbeliever, and Jesus define them like this... "You are OF... YOUR FATHER.... THE DEVIL... and the LUSTS of YOUR FATHER, you shall do".

When we are born again, we become a Child of GOD, who is now our Father.

 

[Hobie]

Here he's not talking about the Devil.

Notice that after Jesus fasted for the 40.... the Devil came to Him and took Jesus to a place.
So, that's not a snake doing that...

Also, Paul said once that "Satan hindered us from coming there".. and again that is not a snake doing that.
That's the Devil causing that and doing that.




"her seed" is the Son of God.. And of course the Devil is always against God, Christ, and the Born again.

The Devil's seed, are these....

John 3:36

Its every unbeliever, and Jesus define them like this... "You are OF... YOUR FATHER.... THE DEVIL... and the LUSTS of YOUR FATHER, you shall do".

When we are born again, we become a Child of GOD, who is now our Father.

So it was just a garden variety snake, that talked and tempted and deceived, not so my brother...

 

[Behold]

So it was just a garden variety snake, that talked and tempted and deceived, not so my brother...

Thank you for not making sense.

Maybe you can just be quiet.

But if you have a real question about something that is not a SYMBOLIC VERSE......that is taken from the NEW TESTAMENT, .. i can answer it.

 

[Hobie]

Thank you for not making sense.

Maybe you can just be quiet.

But if you have a real question about something that is not a SYMBOLIC VERSE......that is taken from the NEW TESTAMENT, .. i can answer it.

Its a core doctrine of Christianity...

 

[Behold]

Its a core doctrine of Christianity...

That Jesus came to destroy the work of the Devil... born of a Virgin, and then and By = becoming a Blood Sacrifice to establish the NEW Testament and NEW Covenant...= that is all and only what God offers....JOHN 14.6..... and all that God accepts to save humanity, ONE BELIEVER at a time....

A.) That's true., and Thank God for it.

 

[Hobie]

That Jesus came to destroy the work of the Devil... born of a Virgin, and then and By = becoming a Blood Sacrifice to establish the NEW Testament and NEW Covenant...= that is all and only what God offers....JOHN 14.6..... and all that God accepts to save humanity, ONE BELIEVER at a time....

A.) That's true., and Thank God for it.

Christians hold that the devil in the form of a snake, deceived Eve in the Garden of Eden and thats what started this whole issue of sin we have in the world.