Is the messiah the father himself in flesh?

[April_Rose]

FOR CRYIN' OUT LOUD, YOU JUST DID IT AGAIN!?!?!?
No one believes that Jesus raised himself from the dead????? A continuous false predicate all the time from you DW.

I read through his message repeatedly and never saw him make such a claim.

 

[dev553344]

FOR CRYIN' OUT LOUD, YOU JUST DID IT AGAIN!?!?!?
No one believes that Jesus raised himself from the dead????? A continuous false predicate all the time from you DW.

1 Corinthians 6:14
Now God has not only raised the Lord, but will also raise us up through His power.
Ephesians 1:20
which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
2 Corinthians 4:14
knowing that He who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and will present us with you.
Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Acts 2:24
But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.
Acts 3:15
but put to death the Prince of life, the one whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witnesses.
Acts 4:10
let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised
from the dead—by this name this man stands here before you in good health.

OK, thanks, that clarifies things. So how do you then interpret this:

John 10:17-18

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

I see why you've confused these scriptures. When I read the bible and I find a conflict, I always refer to Jesus spoken words.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

i may have been a bit quick to make the accusation, just because I've heard it too many times on this forum. I like JD, and may have misconstrued her response to you. For that , I apologize. But again, I am cynical and indignant to those who claim that the holy Spirit guides them in interpretation. Their words should be able to speak for themselves.
And, back to the point. The advice to you should be, yes, pray for insight from God, but in the meantime, reject anything that you can't comprehend, or that does not bring glory to God.

Maybe you're right JD. I may have judged a bit quickly, possibly? It just seemed as a flippant response. I've heard it too many times from some of the worst exegetes, that the Holy Spirit guides them in all Biblical interpretation.
You are correct what you said, but, like I said, it requires a great deal of humility and faith to have that communication with God. I prefer to offer a response of my own, and let the people decide from where I received my inspiration.
Sorry, if I was mistaken about your intent, or misunderstood your context.

I thank you for your sincere posts.

I too have met horrible folks whom just want to say "this is what God to me and you should just believe it because I'm telling you it's right"- such should indeed be fled from. Never believe anything just because somebody told you to.

My advice to @April_Rose was to seek God herself and listen to Him herself.

I'm happy to explain my view on things to any person who's actually interested in a conversation. And I enjoy hearing other people's view too. But when it comes to God's Truth, we each first and foremost ask Him and He will answer those whom have ears to hear.

 

[dev553344]

I read through his message repeatedly and never saw him make such a claim.

I did, as it is spoken from Jesus himself, not Paul:

John 10:17-18

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

This describes a god by definition.

 

[DNB]

I read through his message repeatedly and never saw him make such a claim.

He did twice, how could you not see them? THis is a direct quote from his 2nd one.

'...so what do you call a person like Jesus that can resurrect themselves from the dead and heal their own wounds?...'

 

[April_Rose]

I did, as it is spoken from Jesus himself, not Paul:

John 10:17-18

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

This describes a god by definition.

Oops,.. sorry misread your post,.. I am still appalled that he was calling somebody overweight,.. that is rude and has absolutely nothing to do with this.

 

[DNB]

OK, thanks, that clarifies things. So how do you then interpret this:

John 10:17-18

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

I see why you've confused these scriptures. When I read the bible and I find a conflict, I always refer to Jesus spoken words.

NO, the exception does not make the rule!!!!
Even worse, you overlooked the determining factor as to what Jesus was saying - 'This commandment have I received of my Father.'
Jesus can do nothing without authority and power from the Father. He stated this emphatically and incessantly, this is the over-arching principle that cannot be undermined BY ONE VERSE!

 

[dev553344]

NO, the exception does not make the rule!!!!
Even worse, you overlooked the determining factor as to what Jesus was saying - 'This commandment have I received of my Father.'
Jesus can do nothing without authority and power from the Father. He stated this emphatically and incessantly, this is the over-arching principle that cannot be undermined BY ONE VERSE!

So then God the Father gave Jesus power to resurrect himself? Do we agree on that, because if we do, then God the Father made him a god at minimum.

 

[DNB]

I thank you for your sincere posts.

I too have met horrible folks whom just want to say "this is what God to me and you should just believe it because I'm telling you it's right"- such should indeed be fled from. Never believe anything just because somebody told you to.

My advice to @April_Rose was to seek God herself and listen to Him herself.

I'm happy to explain my view on things to any person who's actually interested in a conversation. And I enjoy hearing other people's view too. But when it comes to God's Truth, we each first and foremost ask Him and He will answer those whom have ears to hear.

Thank you also JD, for your understanding and patience. I believe that you understood my point, but that it may have been misdirected towards you.
Why I jumped in in a manner that may have seemed impetuous, was because AR seemed vulnerable (by her own admission), and I just wanted to get her before too much indoctrination set in (honestly, it seemed to back-fire in more ways than one). ...but, you get all this.

Thanks again JD, I believe that I was wrong in either timing or context, and do appreciate your stance, as you just explained, on the matter.

 

[DNB]

So then God the Father gave Jesus power to resurrect himself? Do we agree on that, because if we do, then God the Father made him a god at minimum.

No, I must admit that I am unsure as to what exactly Jesus meant, in its entirety, in that pericope. But, again, hermeneutics 101, we do not make the exception the rule. Not to mention that, fundamentally speaking, there is no efficacy to God or man, having God raise himself from the dead. There is no sacrifice (nothing for Jesus to lose), and there is no hope for man (a non-human has been resurrected).
Listen DW, I do not know what level of theology that you are at, but you need to stop isolating verses and try and see the big picture. You are dragging people down rabbit holes with your narrow-minded views. Start speaking on a fundamental level, especially when trying to explain the incomprehensible (despite being futile, anyhow).

 

[dev553344]

No, I must admit that I am unsure as to what exactly Jesus meant, in its entirety, in that pericope. But, again, hermeneutics 101, we do not make the exception the rule. Not to mention that, fundamentally speaking, there is no efficacy to God or man, having God raise himself from the dead. There is no sacrifice (nothing for Jesus to lose), and there is no hope for man (a non-human has been resurrected).
Listen DW, I do not know what level of theology that you are at, but you need to stop isolating verses and try and see the big picture. You are dragging people down rabbit holes with your narrow-minded views. Start speaking on a fundamental level, especially when trying to explain the incomprehensible (despite being futile, anyhow).

Well, what I know from the facts of the witness statements given in the scriptural accounts of the Bible is that Jesus himself said he had power to resurrect himself. Now you're claiming, that Jesus did not resurrect himself. The only interpretation I can then see is that God the Father gave him the power that he had, and he used that power to resurrect himself. This is the only way to accept your scripture and mine that I can see.

So if you have a better conclusion I would like to hear it. I'm open to listening if you have some explanation that is factual that Jesus is not a god. And yes I know that Jesus is a god, and that he is God.

 

[DNB]

Well, what I know from the facts of the witness statements given in the scriptural accounts of the Bible is that Jesus himself said he had power to resurrect himself. Now you're claiming, that Jesus did not resurrect himself. The only interpretation I can then see is that God the Father gave him the power that he had, and he used that power to resurrect himself. This is the only way to accept your scripture and mine that I can see.

So if you have a better conclusion I would like to hear it. I'm open to listening if you have some explanation that is factual that Jesus is not a god. And yes I know that Jesus is a god, and that he is God.

NO, YOU ARE DEFINATELY NOT OPEN TO LISTENING, NOR HAVE EVER BEEN!!!
We just did a complete circle for crying out loud? After i just explained the invalidity of your position, based on the flippin' one verse that you chose, you just entirely disregarded my rebuttal, as if i was talking to a wall.
Sayonara!

 

[April_Rose]

Devin here's a helpful hint for you,.. just put him on ignore. I would myself but I'm currently trying to protect everybody else from his hurtful comments.

 

[dev553344]

Devin here's a helpful hint for you,.. just put him on ignore. I would myself but I'm currently trying to protect everybody else from his hurtful comments.

Yeah I was willing to bend a little and reason out the scripture, but it sounds like it's not going to happen.

 

[justbyfaith]

No one believes that Jesus raised himself from the dead

I do...for that is what is written in John 10:17-18.

Anyone who claims to understand the incomprehensible, is not to be taken serious.

Since it is not incomprehensible I suppose that you therefore can take me seriously.

True Trinity. (posts #1-#6)

Jesus can do nothing without authority and power from the Father. He stated this emphatically and incessantly, this is the over-arching principle that cannot be undermined BY ONE VERSE!

It is one verse that you are going to have to deal with in your theology...for we know that all scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.

But, again, hermeneutics 101, we do not make the exception the rule.

Nevertheless, those verses or passages that seem to be the exception to what we believe in, must be dealt with in due time. Such scriptures must slowly be integrated into our theology or else we are guilty of smorgasborg religion.

 

[justbyfaith]

I too have met horrible folks whom just want to say "this is what God told <fify> me and you should just believe it because I'm telling you it's right"

Horrible folks like the apostle Paul (Ephesians 3:3-4)?

 

[DNB]

Horrible folks like the apostle Paul (Ephesians 3:3-4)?

King non-sequitur!

 

[justbyfaith]

King non-sequitur!

It follows logically (you just need to look up the passage instead of only reading the statement).

 

[sho]

We need to trust the bible. And who became flesh according to the bible?
The Holy Spirit shall come upon you, and power of the Most High shall overshadow you: wherefore also the holy thing that shall be born shall be called the Son of God.
The Bible does not say that a second person of a Trinity became flesh, nor does it say that an archangel became flesh, the Bible clearly says that it was the Holy Spirit who manifested in the flesh. God has sent his spirit.
And what is God? A spirit. God is the Holy Spirit, so the Holy Spirit is the Father Himself. Through this incarnation the Son of God was born, the Son of God did not exist before his incarnation. The son of God started to exist when he was born.

 

[sho]

I can understand. However, the Holy Spirit couldn't be Jesus because at this moment Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father.

I am sure there will be only one throne. And the one who will sit on it is the son, because he is God in flesh. The father who is not flesh and has therefore no body cannot sit anywhere because he is invisible, but the son is the visible image of the father.