Is There Different Beliefs Among Catholics? Chrislam Movement?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,604
13,002
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It's linguistic fact.
You have NEVER been able to get past "Kecharitomene".

Denial is not a valid argument . . .

LOL...inasmany times as you have been told...you still don't get it!

I disagree with YOU and YOUR hokey Catholic doctrine.

"But, but, Mary WAS in the PAST given grace and favoritism ...."

What you JUST Read, occurED, and IS now the Past!

The Past occurED between God telling the angel and the angel telling Mary, she was Highly favored.

But a Catholic has Decided the Precise Time God gave Mary Grace. How? Uh by declaration!! LOL

Maybe Mary WAS Given, Grace and Favoritism...before she was born, or at the moment she was conceived in her mother's womb, or maybe at the moment of her natural birth....so what?

The Catholic doctrine teaches Full of Grace "Denotes" SINLESSNESS...so the Catholic has Adopted an "indication" as A Fact...

Scripture does not teach full of Grace MEANS "SINLESS"...That is hokey Catholic Teaching.

As told you before I disagree with you and your hokey made up Catholic doctrine, that fails the test of Scriptural verification.

So what? You disagree with the doctrine of Jesus, That I agree with and it Passes the test of Scriptural verification.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,950
3,391
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
LOL...inasmany times as you have been told...you still don't get it!
I disagree with YOU and YOUR hokey Catholic doctrine.
"But, but, Mary WAS in the PAST given grace and favoritism ...."
What you JUST Read, occurED, and IS now the Past!

The Past occurED between God telling the angel and the angel telling Mary, she was Highly favored.
But a Catholic has Decided the Precise Time God gave Mary Grace. How? Uh by declaration!! LOL
Maybe Mary WAS Given, Grace and Favoritism...before she was born, or at the moment she was conceived in her mother's womb, or maybe at the moment of her natural birth....so what?
The Catholic doctrine teaches Full of Grace "Denotes" SINLESSNESS...so the Catholic has Adopted an "indication" as A Fact...
Scripture does not teach full of Grace MEANS "SINLESS"...That is hokey Catholic Teaching.
As told you before I disagree with you and your hokey made up Catholic doctrine, that fails the test of Scriptural verification.
So what? You disagree with the doctrine of Jesus, That I agree with and it Passes the test of Scriptural verification.
WRONG, Einstein.

κεχαριτωμένη (Kecharitomene) is defined as:
Having been completely, perfectly and ENDURINGLY endowed with grace, which is a perfect passive participle, indicating a completed action with a PERMANENT result.

"COMPLETED"
"ENDURINGLY"
"PERMANENT"


This isn't just a "past" event. It is a permanent one.
Go buy yourself a dictionary . . .

Whereas we are BEING endowed with grace throughout our lives, BEING sanctified and BEING made perfect – Mary was ALREADY completely sanctified and perfectly endowed with grace - PERMANENTLY.

This indicates a sinless person.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,604
13,002
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
WRONG, Einstein.

κεχαριτωμένη (Kecharitomene) is defined as:
Having been completely, perfectly and ENDURINGLY endowed with grace, which is a perfect passive participle, indicating a completed action with a PERMANENT result.

"COMPLETED"
"ENDURINGLY"
"PERMANENT"


This isn't just a "past" event. It is a permanent one.
Go buy yourself a dictionary . . .
LOL...
I don't require a dictionary to notice your comprehension failure.

NOT news. What God reveals IS what it is.
WHO said Anything about Mary was revealed to have fallen from Gods Grace?
Uh, no one!
So your hissy fit is irrelevant nonsense.

Whereas we are BEING endowed with grace throughout our lives, BEING sanctified and BEING made perfect –

Gods Grace is Sufficiant.
You want to declare Mary SINLESS because she received Gods Grace...that's your teaching...Not Scripture.

SanctifiED IS a completed Gift God gives to People Forgiven, Through Christ Jesus, and who, By the Power of Christ Jesus, receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

THAT had not happened for Mary, or Jesus' followers UNTIL AFTER Jesus returned To Heaven.

You want to teach Mary was sanctified Before her Baptism of the Holy Spirit...go ahead...Scripture does not teach that.

Mary was ALREADY completely sanctified and perfectly endowed with grace - PERMANENTLY.

So? Many people have been endowed with Gods Grace....AND.....have Been Completely Sanctified....AND.....are Perfected IN Christ...

They...like Mary...and Mary like they...
ARE NOT SINLESS....<---- THAT
Revelation Belongs ONLY and Exclusively To:
The Lord God Almighty!

THEY HAVE Become Forgiven their Sin and FREED from Sin.

This indicates a sinless person.

^ THAT is an Opinion...which has NO Basis in Scriptural TRUTH.

Scriptural TRUTH is based on what IS revealed...BY God.

NOT ONCE is it revealed Mary was EVER SINLESS. -If ^that were so...you could provide Scriptural evidence saying Mary was without sin...and for umpteen posts we have all witnessed your failure to produce Any Scripture saying Mary was SINLESS.

I'm sure early well meaning Catholics greatly desired to teach men about Jesus Christ and people asked HOW could a human woman birth A Holy SINLESS Jesus...it is Obvious Catholic men could not answer...So MAKE up Lies. What would it matter...the majority could not read...nor had access To the Scriptures.

Problem is: Once a false "supposed" TRUTH is based On a Lie, another Lie, is necessary to cover up the first Lie and so forth.

You come Preaching and declaring yourself the Catholic Teacher...but repeatedly find your teaching REJECTED and The TRUTH Revealed and Verified BY Scripture...and still because YOU Are Catholic, you have a duty to Support the doctrine of the Catholic Church, no matter what.

You have revealed numerous lies the Catholic doctrine teaches...and I have rejected all of your phony doctrines.

Scripture Warns about men trying to turn the truth into a Lie. I heed Jesus' warning.

You should try that.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,950
3,391
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
LOL...
I don't require a dictionary to notice your comprehension failure.

NOT news. What God reveals IS what it is.
WHO said Anything about Mary was revealed to have fallen from Gods Grace?
Uh, no one!
So your hissy fit is irrelevant nonsense.

Whereas we are BEING endowed with grace throughout our lives, BEING sanctified and BEING made perfect –
Gods Grace is Sufficiant.
You want to declare Mary SINLESS because she received Gods Grace...that's your teaching...Not Scripture.

SanctifiED IS a completed Gift God gives to People Forgiven, Through Christ Jesus, and who, By the Power of Christ Jesus, receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

THAT had not happened for Mary, or Jesus' followers UNTIL AFTER Jesus returned To Heaven.

You want to teach Mary was sanctified Before her Baptism of the Holy Spirit...go ahead...Scripture does not teach that.

Mary was ALREADY completely sanctified and perfectly endowed with grace - PERMANENTLY.
So? Many people have been endowed with Gods Grace....AND.....have Been Completely Sanctified....AND.....are Perfected IN Christ...

They...like Mary...and Mary like they...
ARE NOT SINLESS....<---- THAT
Revelation Belongs ONLY and Exclusively To:
The Lord God Almighty!

THEY HAVE Become Forgiven their Sin and FREED from Sin.

This indicates a sinless person.
^ THAT is an Opinion...which has NO Basis in Scriptural TRUTH.

Scriptural TRUTH is based on what IS revealed...BY God.

NOT ONCE is it revealed Mary was EVER SINLESS. -If ^that were so...you could provide Scriptural evidence saying Mary was without sin...and for umpteen posts we have all witnessed your failure to produce Any Scripture saying Mary was SINLESS.

I'm sure early well meaning Catholics greatly desired to teach men about Jesus Christ and people asked HOW could a human woman birth A Holy SINLESS Jesus...it is Obvious Catholic men could not answer...So MAKE up Lies. What would it matter...the majority could not read...nor had access To the Scriptures.

Problem is: Once a false "supposed" TRUTH is based On a Lie, another Lie, is necessary to cover up the first Lie and so forth.

You come Preaching and declaring yourself the Catholic Teacher...but repeatedly find your teaching REJECTED and The TRUTH Revealed and Verified BY Scripture...and still because YOU Are Catholic, you have a duty to Support the doctrine of the Catholic Church, no matter what.

You have revealed numerous lies the Catholic doctrine teaches...and I have rejected all of your phony doctrines.

Scripture Warns about men trying to turn the truth into a Lie. I heed Jesus' warning.

You should try that.
Funny how YOU rant on about "unprovable" and "unbiblical" lies - while you base your entire position on the false and man-made doctrine of Sola Scriptura - which is itself, UNSCRIPTURAL.

There is NO Biblical requirement for everything we believe to be on the pages of Scripture.
HOWEVER - there IS a Biblical mandate that Christ's CHURCH has Supreme Authority to declare the truth - that WHATEVER His Church binds or looses on earth will also be bound or loosed in Heaven. Christ even guaranteed that the Holy spirit would guide His Church to ALL TRUTH (John 16:12-15).
Those guarantees are ONLY made about His Chruch - and NOTHING else.

As for your whining about the definition of Kecharitomene - this has been nothing but an exercise in DENIAL and nothing else. If I tell you it's raining and you're getting soaking wet outside - your denial of it doesn't magically make it "untrue". The SAME is true for Mary's God-given title of "Kecharitomene" in Luke 1:28). It's a permanent condition.

Whereasa YOU may fall from grace - Kecharitomene guarantees that she can't . . .
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,604
13,002
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Funny how YOU rant on about "unprovable" and "unbiblical" lies - while you base your entire position on the false and man-made doctrine of Sola Scriptura - which is itself, UNSCRIPTURAL.

Disagree.

The Scripture reveals;
2 Tim 3:
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

There is NO Biblical requirement for everything we believe to be on the pages of Scripture.

Correct. Humans have FREEWILL to believe whatever they want to believe.

So why do YOU consistently SCREAM "Your're" WRONG to people who DO NOT Agree with YOU?

You present your beliefs...giving NO, Scriptural Doctrine, that what you say is True. You Further claim, (paraphrasing) You do not believe Scriptural Doctrine is necessary for reproof.

HOWEVER - there IS a Biblical mandate that Christ's CHURCH has Supreme Authority to declare the truth -

Absolutely.
Christ's Church IS a Spiritual Church.
Christ IS the SPIRIT ROCK foundation.
Christ IS the SPIRIT Corner STONE.
Christ IS the SPIRIT HEAD.
And the MEMBERS of Christ's Church ARE;
Humans WHOSE "spirit" has been MADE QUICKENED.

that WHATEVER His Church binds or looses on earth will also be bound or loosed in Heaven.

Correct.
Christ's Church IS a Spiritual Church.
Its Members ARE Quickened human "spirits".

Christ even guaranteed that the Holy spirit would guide His Church to ALL TRUTH (John 16:12-15).

Correct.
Christ's Church MEMBERS, Are the congregation. <--- the very thing, the Holy Spirit Promised TO Lead TO: Christ's TRUTH.

Those guarantees are ONLY made about His Chruch - and NOTHING else.

Not true.
The Holy Spirit Often throughout history HAS BEEN "With" human men, (who were Not Spiritually Quickened, Not a Member of Christ's Church,) YET the Holy Spirit was Guiding Them, With TRUTH and profitable Doctrine.

As for your whining about the definition of Kecharitomene - this has been nothing but an exercise in DENIAL and nothing else.

When you are desperately trying to PROVE your point...AND as is your MO...
1) To begin with a condescending remark;
2) Then teach a Doctrine that Cannot be Verified with Scriptural Doctrine...
You have instantly lost the interest of the listener, to trust to believe ANYTHING you have to say.

If I tell you it's raining and you're getting soaking wet outside - your denial of it doesn't magically make it "untrue".

Poor analogy.

The SAME is true for Mary's God-given title of "Kecharitomene" in Luke 1:28).

You saying you believe Kecharitomene is Mary's "Title", Is Irrelevant.

It's not something I believe, nor am I required to.

I do find it amusing that you have spent umpteen posts claiming that is her TITLE, but have only seen you speak about Mary, as Mary...never speaking ABOUT Mary...with her "supposed TITLE"... Kecharitomene Mary!

It's a permanent condition.

Condition? Her TITLE is a condition?
Are you trying to say, Mary being "full of Grace" IS a permanent "condition"?

- Kecharitomene guarantees that she can't . . .

So? WHO argued or Said ANYTHING about Mary falling from Grace?
No one.
WHO DENIED, saying she Could fall from Grace?
No one.

Why are you trying to make an Argument that Mary Could Not fall from Grace...when no one Said She Could?

You obviously have a knack for NOT paying attention to "only" what another Does Say...and instead make up presumptions in YOUR MIND, "as if" you can magically read the thoughts of others.

There is a feature tab on this forum. You can use that tab, and quote ANYONE saying, "Mary was subject to falling from Grace"...
Then respond with your Disagreement.
Until you can do that...your accusations have No merit.


So why not get on TO the ACTUAL Point instead of dancing around in circles?

Is it your View that a person Full of Gods Unmerited Favor (Grace) IS the definition of SINLESS ?

If so, why not state that claim IN YOUR own Words?

And IF you are capable, also state your source, and What your source says via a quote in the source.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,604
13,002
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
[QUOTE="BreadOfLife, post: 686858, member: 7345]

Whereasa YOU may fall from grace- [/QUOTE]

Disagree.
Your accusation may definitely APPLY TO YOU.

However your accusation Definately DOES NOT APPLY TO me.

It is always a GOOD idea to reserve your claims, void of evidence, to yourself.

- Kecharitomene guarantees that she can't . . .

Disagree.
I do not believe "TITLES" guarantee Grace.

Scripture reveals Gods Grace is "unmerited" Favor.

Scripture reveals Gods Spirit "IN" a person "IS" "merited" by and through the persons ACT of agreeing to being Converted...
"BY" Christ's "ACT" of DOING the Conversion.
And ^ THAT IS what IS a Permanent Condition.[/QUOTE]
 
Last edited:

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,950
3,391
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Disagree.
The Scripture reveals;
2 Tim 3:
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


Correct. Humans have FREEWILL to believe whatever they want to believe.
So why do YOU consistently SCREAM "Your're" WRONG to people who DO NOT Agree with YOU?
You present your beliefs...giving NO, Scriptural Doctrine, that what you say is True. You Further claim, (paraphrasing) You do not believe Scriptural Doctrine is necessary for reproof.
Absolutely.
Christ's Church IS a Spiritual Church.
Christ IS the SPIRIT ROCK foundation.
Christ IS the SPIRIT Corner STONE.
Christ IS the SPIRIT HEAD.
And the MEMBERS of Christ's Church ARE;
Humans WHOSE "spirit" has been MADE QUICKENED.
Correct.
Christ's Church IS a Spiritual Church.
Its Members ARE Quickened human "spirits".
Correct.
Christ's Church MEMBERS, Are the congregation. <--- the very thing, the Holy Spirit Promised TO Lead TO: Christ's TRUTH.
Not true.
The Holy Spirit Often throughout history HAS BEEN "With" human men, (who were Not Spiritually Quickened, Not a Member of Christ's Church,) YET the Holy Spirit was Guiding Them, With TRUTH and profitable Doctrine.
When you are desperately trying to PROVE your point...AND as is your MO...
1) To begin with a condescending remark;
2) Then teach a Doctrine that Cannot be Verified with Scriptural Doctrine...
You have instantly lost the interest of the listener, to trust to believe ANYTHING you have to say.
Poor analogy.
You saying you believe Kecharitomene is Mary's "Title", Is Irrelevant.
It's not something I believe, nor am I required to.
I do find it amusing that you have spent umpteen posts claiming that is her TITLE, but have only seen you speak about Mary, as Mary...never speaking ABOUT Mary...with her "supposed TITLE"... Kecharitomene Mary!
Condition? Her TITLE is a condition?
Are you trying to say, Mary being "full of Grace" IS a permanent "condition"?
So? WHO argued or Said ANYTHING about Mary falling from Grace?
No one.
WHO DENIED, saying she Could fall from Grace?
No one.
Why are you trying to make an Argument that Mary Could Not fall from Grace...when no one Said She Could?
You obviously have a knack for NOT paying attention to "only" what another Does Say...and instead make up presumptions in YOUR MIND, "as if" you can magically read the thoughts of others.
There is a feature tab on this forum. You can use that tab, and quote ANYONE saying, "Mary was subject to falling from Grace"...
Then respond with your Disagreement.
Until you can do that...your accusations have No merit.
So why not get on TO the ACTUAL Point instead of dancing around in circles?
Is it your View that a person Full of Gods Unmerited Favor (Grace) IS the definition of SINLESS ?
If so, why not state that claim IN YOUR own Words?
And IF you are capable, also state your source, and What your source says via a quote in the source.
And NOTHING in 2 Tim 3:16 states that Scripture is our SOLE Authority.
AS I schooled you before - the Bible is clear that the Church is our final earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

As for Mary's Title of "Kecharitomene" - yes, it IS a condition. ALL titles are a condition, Einstein. Whether it is "Your Majesty" or "General" or "Mother" or "President" - they are ALL conditions of a person's existence. Mary's title indicates that she was completely and perfectly and enduringly filled with God's grace - from the past and forever.

YOU
don't have that - NOBODY does until you are with Him after they die.
Nobody is comletely and perfectly FILLED with grace forever until they are in Heaven.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,950
3,391
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Disagree.
Your accusation may definitely APPLY TO YOU.
However your accusation Definately DOES NOT APPLY TO me.


It is always a GOOD idea to reserve your claims, void of evidence, to yourself.

- Kecharitomene guarantees that she can't . . .
Disagree.
I do not believe "TITLES" guarantee Grace.

Scripture reveals Gods Grace is "unmerited" Favor.

Scripture reveals Gods Spirit "IN" a person "IS" "merited" by and through the persons ACT of agreeing to being Converted...
"BY" Christ's "ACT" of DOING the Conversion.
And ^ THAT IS what IS a Permanent Condition.
The Bible DISAGREES with you, my arrogant friend . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,604
13,002
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And NOTHING in 2 Tim 3:16 states that Scripture is our SOLE Authority.

So?

Christ's Church is the final authority, "concerning a man Converted IN Christ."

AS I schooled you before -

Are you really that ignorant or is it your Arrogance you can not contain?

You proclaiming you are a teacher
and arrogantly claiming you are here schooling and educating the people on this forum, is a forum Joke! It only makes You look foolish.

Open your ears, You have specifically been Rejected as a Biblical Teacher!

And BTW your Catholic doctrine has also been Rejected!

And it is Obvious you make statements...claim it is according to Scripture...then Reference or Quote Scripture that has NOTHING to do with your claim....
Like the following...

the Bible is clear that the Church is our final earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Perhaps you should actually read those scriptures...They do not verify your claim.

Remember you call "The Church"...your Catholic Church, and I Don't.

As for Mary's Title of "Kecharitomene" - yes, it IS a condition. ALL titles are a condition, Einstein. Whether it is "Your Majesty" or "General" or "Mother" or "President" - they are ALL conditions of a person's existence.

A person's existence ? Rather redundant.

I would say a TITLE is a reference to the STATUS "of " a person.

Mary's title indicates that she was completely and perfectly and enduringly filled with God's grace - from the past and forever.

YOU
don't have that - NOBODY does until you are with Him after they die.
Nobody is comletely and perfectly FILLED with grace forever until they are in Heaven.

Of course I disagree with you, per usual.

And interestingly...You disagree with yourself...by your own contradiction.

BOL ---> "Mary's title indicates... she was...
Nobody is ... until they are in Heaven."
 
Last edited:

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,604
13,002
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Bible DISAGREES with you, my arrogant friend . . .

LOL - no I am not arrogant or your friend.
My confidence is in the Lord.

And yipes...again for the umpteenth time...YOU AGAIN post your copy and paste Scriptures and your commentary....that has been proved irrelevant!

Try posting Scriptures that are Applicable to a Converted person...
That you claim "CAN" fall from grace!

I know of NONE.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,604
13,002
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
BOL-
Is it your View that a person Full of Gods Unmerited Favor (Grace) IS the definition of SINLESS ?

If so, why not state that claim IN YOUR own Words?

And IF you are capable, also state your source, and What your source says via a quote in the source.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,950
3,391
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So?
Christ's Church is the final authority, "concerning a man Converted IN Christ."
Are you really that ignorant or is it your Arrogance you can not contain?

You proclaiming you are a teacher
and arrogantly claiming you are here schooling and educating the people on this forum, is a forum Joke! It only makes You look foolish.

Open your ears, You have specifically been Rejected as a Biblical Teacher!

And BTW your Catholic doctrine has also been Rejected!

And it is Obvious you make statements...claim it is according to Scripture...then Reference or Quote Scripture that has NOTHING to do with your claim....
Like the following...
Perhaps you should actually read those scriptures...They do not verify your claim.
Remember you call "The Church"...your Catholic Church, and I Don't.
A person's existence ? Rather redundant.

I would say a TITLE is a reference to the STATUS "of " a person.
Of course I disagree with you, per usual.
And interestingly...You disagree with yourself...by your own contradiction.

BOL ---> "Mary's title indicates... she was...
Nobody is ... until they are in Heaven."
And, as usual - your standard answer is, "I disagree" - as if that holds any water.

As I admonished you before - just because YOU disagree with something doesn't "magically" make you right.
Kecharitomene is what it IS - whether YOU agree with it or not.

And, once again - as to a person's title - it pertains to their existence. Their status is PART of what they are, and therein lies their Title.
Mary was called "Kecharitomene" because she IS Kecharitomene . . .
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,950
3,391
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
BOL-
Is it your View that a person Full of Gods Unmerited Favor (Grace) IS the definition of SINLESS ?
If so, why not state that claim IN YOUR own Words?

And IF you are capable, also state your source, and What your source says via a quote in the source.
Nope - I never made that claim.
I said that because Mary was completely AND perfectly AND enduringly filled with God's grace - AND that this was a completed act with a permanent result - THAT is what made her sinless.

Not sure how long that's going to take to sink in - but it's gone WAY over your head now for months . . .
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,604
13,002
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And, as usual - your standard answer is, "I disagree" - as if that holds any water.

LOL...

- just because YOU disagree with something doesn't "magically" make you right.

Seems YOU failed to notice, you also disagree with me.

FYI - what I agree with is Verified in Scripture.

Kecharitomene is what it IS - whether YOU agree with it or not.

Kecharitomene is simply a female filled with Gods Grace.
It neither says or implies the female is Sinless

And, once again - as to a person's title - it pertains to their existence. Their status is PART of what they are, and therein lies their Title.
Mary was called "Kecharitomene" because she IS Kecharitomene . . .

LOL - and All throughout Scripture she is Called; Mary!

Still disagree with you.
 

RogerDC

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2020
1,107
168
63
64
Forster
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I do NOT believe Christ the Lords CHURCH is exclusively Your Catholic church. I have made No agreement with your church's doctrine to agree with or for your elected and appointed men to dictate my beliefs and understanding of the WORD of God. While "your" membership appears to be WITH the man made Catholic Church, and agreement with appointed and elected gentile men...
My membership is in Christ's Church, that Christ is thereof "the Foundation and Head" established By His Authority and Power, and forward through His Chosen Jewish men, He chose to write and distribute HIS word of Truth and Knowledge "FOR" ALL to hear.
Christ has only one Church and its called the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is “the bride of Christ”. You are not a member of Christ’s Church, although you are joined to the Catholic Church - albeit imperfectly - courtesy of your baptism, your faith and presumably, your love of God.
In another way, you are at least part-Catholic because the Bible you swear by is a Catholic document - it was the Catholic Church that determined the canon of the Bible, so without the Catholic Church, you would not even have a Bible. Every time you read the Bible, you should thank the Catholic Church for having provided it.
I chose to Trust to Believe Christ Jesus' Knowledge and doctrine, written by Jewish men.
The authors to the Bible were not all Jewish - the gospel of Luke was written by a Gentile.
the Lord God made mankind with the Liberty for each his own to make his own choices.
By choosing to reject the authority and most the teachings of the Catholic Church, you have made yourself a heretic and law unto yourself. How that will affect your salvation, I have no idea, but personally, I would not want to front up on Judgement Day as a heretic who rejected God’s Church. You risk being one of those lawless Christians to whom Jesus will say on that Day, “I never knew you” (Matt 7:21-23).
 

RogerDC

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2020
1,107
168
63
64
Forster
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
You missed the POINT!
Writings of the OT, of men Appointed...
BY God.
Writings of the NT, of men Appointed...
BY Jesus Christ.
No, it is you who has missed the point: If God appointed men to infallibly convey God’s word to the rest of mankind, then God can use men (the Bishops) in the Church to infallibly convey God’s word to mankind. God can use men to infallibly convey His word anytime, anywhere and as many times as He likes - such supernatural acts are not confined to the men who wrote the Bible.
The Appointed men Calling themselves Catholic did NOT write the Bible.
All the Bible writers were effectively Catholic, because the early Church and the Catholic Church are one and the same thing.
The Uniqueness of a Catholic Cleric, is to First Claim...their Appointed "holy father" IS infallible concerning the Scriptures...And when "he" declares what something means...it can not be anything But the Absolute Truth.
Er, no; that is not how it works.
Why is accepting "Abraham" (Appointed BY God) as an earthly "Earthly" father to Earthly men...on the wayside? ..as Catholics instead Appoint an Earthly man...and give him the title of..."holy father"?
Christ Jesus is the one mediator between God and man, but the Church is “the body (and) the fullness” of Christ Jesus (Eph 1:22), who is the “head” of the Church (Col 1:18). The head cannot be separated from the body, therefore the Church shares Christ’s role as Mediator between God and man. However, the Church's role as mediator is subordinate to Christ’s role as mediator, since the head controls the body.

Furthermore, where does the Bible say there are not mediators between man and “the man, Christ Jesus”?
And Catholic Clerics ... are more than happy to fill the pews with men desiring SOMEONE to Tell them the Understanding of Scripture.
The Catholic Church contains the "fullness" of Christ (Eph 1:22) and is the “pillar and foundation of the truth” (1Tim 3:15).
 
Last edited:

RogerDC

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2020
1,107
168
63
64
Forster
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Scripture itself proves Mary was not Sinless.
The Catholic Church teaches that Mary was not “natural born” - she was immaculately conceived, meaning she was born free from the stain of original sin. The must be true as the Catholic Church is “pillar and foundation of the truth” (1Tim 3:15) and is “the fullness” of Christ (Eph 1:22).
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,604
13,002
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Christ has only one Church and its called the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church is “the bride of Christ”.

You are not a member of Christ’s Church,

without the Catholic Church, you would not even have a Bible.

Every time you read the Bible, you should thank the Catholic Church for having provided it.

The authors to the Bible were not all Jewish - the gospel of Luke was written by a Gentile.

By choosing to reject the authority and most the teachings of the Catholic Church, you have made yourself a heretic and law unto yourself.

You risk being one of those lawless Christians to whom Jesus will say on that Day, “I never knew you” (Matt 7:21-23).

Catholic Claims, Doctrine and Accusations, as such, YOU have presented, ARE ON my List of WHY I REJECT THE Catholic Teachings, and am Thankful for not having been DUPED into the Catholic Doctrine of Changing the TRUTH into LIES.

Rom 1:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator...

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,604
13,002
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Catholic Church teaches that Mary was not “natural born” - she was immaculately conceived,
meaning she was born free from the stain of original sin.

The Scriptures teaches no such thing.

The must be true
as the
Catholic Church is
“pillar and foundation of the truth”
(1 Tim 3:15)
and "the fullness" of Christ.
(Eph 1:22

Yet again; I disagree.

The Members of the Church of the Living God,
ARE those people Who Willingly Elected, of their OWN volition, to Become Converted and JOIN Christ's Spiritual Church,
2 Pet 1
[10] ... make your calling and election sure:

1 Pet 2:
[5] ... as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

1 Tim 3:
[15] ... the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ is the Head and Foundation of His Church.

Eph 1:
[22] And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

[23] Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

The Lord God Almighty ALONE, IS Eternally WITHOUT SIN.

All of Gods CREATED and MADE Naturally Born persons Were Conceived (by the WILL of man), Born (from corrupt SEEDS, with corrupt BLOOD) and Commited SIN....
Nothing in Scripture has Changed those TRUTHS...

But then...there is a man made church, calling itself the catholic (meaning universal) church, with ITS OWN Doctrine (Outside of Scripture), claiming it is "the one true church" and "ITS Doctrine is true"...
even though It is Clear...
it's Doctrine and Authority comes from men who appointed themselves...
And their doctrine Conflicts with Christ Jesus'
Doctrine.

Catholic Doctrine:
878 ... "I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit . . ."; "I absolve you . . . ."

Uh, No.
The "NAMED", Father, Son, Holy Spirit; is the one who absolves!

880 ... Christ instituted the Twelve, "he constituted [them] in the form of a college or permanent assembly, at the head of which he placed Peter, chosen from among them."

Uh no. Scripture teaches Christ IS the Rock Foundation of His Spiritual Church...
No one "Truly Knew" that Jesus IS the Christ, But BY God Himself revealing that Understanding To the Individual.
Jesus acknowledged, the First of Jesus' chosen Disciples to Receive Gods Understanding, that Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the Living God,...Was Simon.

Matt 16:
[13] When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
[14] And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
[15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
[16] And Simon Peter answered and said,
Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it --> ( Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God ) unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this ---> ( Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God )
rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Peter is according to Peter himself...
(1 Pet 2:4-5)
Jesus as a Living stone...as are also, other persons, IN Christ's Spiritual Church membership.

Your Catholic Church, unbeknownst to Peter, has MADE Peter the rock foundation of Their Catholic church.

I'll stick with Scriptural Teaching...

Jesus' Church is upon Christ, the Rock Foundation.
The Foundation IS Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
God gives an individual Understanding.
Converted Individuals become as the stones, of Christ's Church, INDWELT By Gods Spirit, one upon another, supported, held together, By the Power of God.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
Last edited:

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,950
3,391
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Seems YOU failed to notice, you also disagree with me.
Scripture and Christendom disagrees with your perversions.
Kecharitomene is simply a female filled with Gods Grace.
It neither says or implies the female is Sinless
Wrong.
As I have educated you now about 3 dozen times - THIS is what "Kecharitomene" means:

Completely and perfectly and enduringly filled with God's grace - indicating a PAST event with a PERMANENT result.

And you haven't been able to deal with this for several months now . . .
LOL - and All throughout Scripture she is Called; Mary!
Still disagree with you.
And ALL through Scripture, Jacob is called "Jacob" - even though God changed his name to "Israel".
Jesus is called "Jesus" - even though Scripture gives Him titles like "Immanuel" and "Wonderful Counselor".

Sooooo, what's your point??