Is There Different Beliefs Among Catholics? Chrislam Movement?

[Taken]

I'll show it to you when YOU show me a verse that says God cannot choose whom HE wants to bestow grace upon.

WHY ask me to show you something I never said? LOL

MY Bible says He has that prerogative (Exod, 33:19, Rom. 9:15).

So? Not news!

Ummmmmmm, what does YOURS say??

ALL have sinned. (Rom 3:23)

...with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Rom 10:10)

...Ye must be born again. (John 3:7)

...not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, ... (1Pet 1:23)

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(1 John 1:8)

You have repeatedly claimed Mary was SINLESS.

You have repeatedly claimed you are a teacher of Catholic Doctrine.

Mary made no such ridiculous claim that she was SINLESS.

Scripture Never claims Mary was SINLESS.

Why are YOU Speaking and making FALSE CLAIMS FOR Mary?

You have been Warned about Speaking and making FALSE claims for others. Your continuance is to your own detriment.

 

[BreadOfLife]

WHY ask me to show you something I never said? LOL
So? Not news!

Uh huh - and YOU have stated the opposite by claiming that Mary could NOT be sinless because she didn't have an "incorruptible" body, which is nonsense. God can do anything He wills - without YOUR permission.

It's HIS prerogative NOT yours (Exod, 33:19, Rom. 9:15).

ALL have sinned. (Rom 3:23)
...with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Rom 10:10)
...Ye must be born again. (John 3:7)
...not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, ... (1Pet 1:23)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(1 John 1:8)
You have repeatedly claimed Mary was SINLESS.

You have repeatedly claimed you are a teacher of Catholic Doctrine.

Mary made no such ridiculous claim that she was SINLESS.

Scripture Never claims Mary was SINLESS.

Why are YOU Speaking and making FALSE CLAIMS FOR Mary?

You have been Warned about Speaking and making FALSE claims for others. Your continuance is to your own detriment.

And I already showed you that Rom. 3 is a direct reference to Psalm 14 where it is talking about the "FOOLS" - so your entire argument here falls apart at the seams.

Rom, 3:10 also states that there are "NONE Righteous". However, what do we read in Psalm 14:5, after it tells us that there are "none righteous" and "ALL" have sinned??
It says that God is in the company of . . . . . wait for it . . . . the "RIGHTEOUS".

Your impotent argument is DEAD on arrival . . .

 

[Taken]

BreadOfLife said:

" Mary could NOT be sinless because she didn't have an "incorruptible" body, which is nonsense."

Scripture says;
ALL have sinned. (Rom 3:23)
...with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Rom 10:10)
...Ye must be born again. (John 3:7)
...not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, ... (1Pet 1:23)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(1 John 1:8)

 

[BreadOfLife]

" Mary could NOT be sinless because she didn't have an "incorruptible" body, which is nonsense."

Scripture says;
ALL have sinned. (Rom 3:23)
...with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Rom 10:10)
...Ye must be born again. (John 3:7)
...not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, ... (1Pet 1:23)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(1 John 1:8)

Your impotent Argument is dead on THREE fronts:

1. The most obvious reason is that I already debunked your usage of Rom. 3, which is a direct reference to Psalm 14 which is talking about every FOOLISH person – not “every” person in general. This is proven by verse 5 in that Psalm which says that God is in the company of the “RIGHTEOUS.”
STRIKE ONE.

2. John 3:7 and 1 Pet. 1:23 are about being born again SPIRITUALLY – and have NOTHING to do with glorified bodies.
STRIKE TWO.

3. Mary never claimed to be without sin, so your reference to 1 John 1:8 is pointless. She was too humble. Scripture tells us she was without sin (Luke 1:28).
STRIKE THREE.

You’re OUT . . .

 

[Taken]

Your Argument is dead on THREE fronts:

There is no argument.
Scripture is Right. I agree with Scripture.
I disagree with YOU.

1. The most obvious reason is that I already debunked your usage of Rom. 3, which is a direct reference to Psalm 14 which is talking about every FOOLISH person – not “every” person in general. This is proven by verse 5 in that Psalm which says that God is in the company of the “RIGHTEOUS.”
STRIKE ONE.

The Topic IS A QUESTION of Scripture Revealing SINLESSNESS Applies to Any Natural Born Earthly Person.

The ANSWER IS;
No, Scripture Does Not Reveal Any Natural Born Earthly Person, IS Naturally Born SINLESS.

The ANSWER IS;
Scripture Specifically Reveals Jesus (IS the Teacher). Jesus chose and taught His Students. His Students were called Disciples and Apostles. His Students Taught;

Romans 3:
[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

I Trust to Believe the Knowledge of Jesus' Teachings, Revealed to me through Jesus' chosen Apostles.

You reveal, You DO NOT Trust to Believe the Scripture as it is plainly Revealed.

You reveal, You Trust another doctrine, specifically Catholic Doctrine.

And You have explicitly been told; I disagree with You and Your doctrine.

2. John 3:7 and 1 Pet. 1:23 are about being born again SPIRITUALLY – and have NOTHING to do with glorified bodies.
STRIKE TWO.

John 3:
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye MUST be born again.

John 3:7 IS PRECISELY about A Spiritual Birth. The NECESSITY and WHY of MUST be born again...
IS Revealed in:

John 3:
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Verified:
All Earthly Humans SEEDS are Corrupt. Corrupt Human male SEEDS Fertilize Corrupt Human female SEEDS and the BLOOD of the Female Placenta FEEDS the Fetus and carries Away Waste from the Fetus.
The LIFE of ALL Earthly Human Body's, (CREATED from a Corrupt Human male SEED and Corrupt Human female SEED, is a Corrupt offspring; and its Life is its BLOOD, and its BLOOD Life; IS Subject To DEATH and SHALL DIE. (Just as you have been on more than one occasion Shown IN Scripture Human Blood LIFE Applies TO Earthly natural born Humans, And expressly, Human BLOOD, Did NOT APPLY To Jesus).

1 Pet. 1:
[23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Pet 1:23 Expressly Reveals the FACT there ARE Births From Corrupt SEEDS and Births From Incorruptable SEEDS.

You Should have Learned By the WORD of God; the First Birth of an Earthly Human, IS ... Natural, Earthy, Sewn, Corrupt... AND SUBJECT TO Death!

You should have Learned By the WORD of God; a Human Body's Corruption CAN NOT BECOME "Born AGAIN", without the FIRST "DYING".

And it is The Thought or Teaching of The FOOLISH TO Teach Otherwise.

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

You Teach a Another doctrine, FOREIGN to Biblical Doctrine.

Biblical Doctrine Does NOT TEACH "Mary" was "First born" Quickened.

No less than a dozen Scriptures Reveal, it was Expressly Jesus ...Born from a woman's womb...without SIN...
and Without the Blood of a human!

Biblical Doctrine Teaches (Specifically WHEN) Jesus' Disciples, Jesus' Followers and MARY Were QUICKENED, Born Again, By the Power of God.
(Acts: 1 & 2)

3. Mary never claimed to be without sin, so your reference to 1 John 1:8 is pointless. She was too humble. Scripture tells us she was without sin (Luke 1:28).
STRIKE THREE.
You’re OUT . . .

Correct, as I said. Mary Never Claimed To Be SINLESS, Which IS A TRUE FACT.
(Another TRUE Fact IS; IS YOU MAKE False claims FOR Mary, By YOU claiming Mary was naturally born SINLESS. She didn't claim that. Scripture doesn't claim that. The is YOUR Claim and IS False.
(Thou shalt not bare False Witness)...but you do repeatedly, every time YOU MAKE False claims FOR others!

I have seen no one on this Forum Claiming To Be SINLESS.

What I have SEEN IS: YOU making FALSE CLAIMS...and preaching That what YOU say... Applies TO "OTHERS"!

That ^ is Your False Testimony; which IS attributed TO YOU. YOU, shall be Judged on what YOU MAKE UP and desperately TRY to Dump it on others!

No, Luke 1:28 does Not say Mary WAS naturally born SINLESS!

Luke 1:28 is quite clear.
Luke 1:28 Reveals: an angelic messenger of God came to Mary, greeted Mary, told Mary she was highly favored, told Mary the Lord Is "WITH" her, and told Mary she is "Blessed" among women.

Luke 1:28
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

What the Angelic messenger DID NOT SAY...
Is that Mary:
Was Naturally Born SINLESS.
Is that Mary:
Was "Born Again" By the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

You previously TRIED to argue your point:
Jesus was "IN" Mary's Womb, therefore, Mary was SINLESS, because Jesus was IN Mary's Womb. LOL!

You dropped that point quickly...because it proved nothing, regarding you desperately trying to prove Mary herself was "from her birth" naturally born SINLESS.

A rebirth of A Human, Is A Human Receiving Gods Seed...( IN their new Heart!)
IT IS NOT a HUMAN receiving Gods Seed In a Womb! LOL. (seems YOU did not know, many men have received Gods SEED...and men do not have Wombs)! LOL

Highly favored does NOT mean SINLESS.
The Lord WITH a person does NOT mean SINLESS.
Blessed does NOT mean SINLESS.
Forgiven SIN does NOT mean SINLESS.

Receiving the SEED of God does NOT mean a person has Become SINLESS.

A person who has Become Converted "IS MADE " SEAL unto God and JUSTIFIED ... to be RAISED UP IN Glory...Without Corruption.

Where in All of Scripture IS it Taught "Mary's" BODY, was naturally born Without Sin or that Mary has Been Raised UP "In Glory, Without SIN"?... NaDa... Zip.

I am clear regarding my disagreement and rejection of your doctrine and your teaching.
I provide Scripture to verify WHY I disagree and reject your doctrine and teaching.

You provide...Scriptural References and occasionally Scriptural quotes that neither SAY or Verify your absurd claims.
And you Further make up false claims, make snarky remarks and imply your handling of Scripture is but you playing some sort a game...that you declare yourself the winner, (by and through) your own deceptive means.

You making false claims for others, your failure to provide Scriptural Verifications, your snarky remarks, your handling of Scripture as a game...May Qualify you as a "winner" according to Catholic Teaching...but it does nothing FOR you "according to Jesus' Doctrine."... and I am NOT SUBJECT TO the Lords Judgement for "your" accusations and False Claims.

I stated what was Correct...Mary never claimed she was SINLESS.
She has a host of deceived Catholics, To make a Whole Doctrine of False Claims "For" her.

We all have FREEWILL. I freely chose to Accept Jesus' Doctrine...while freely Rejecting Other Doctrines...in this case...specifically YOUR doctrine!

I already FREELY chose to become and was Converted IN Christ.

(PS you should take that to mean; you failed in your attempt to convince me to Trust, Believe or Convert to Catholicism... )

Don't be all mad and huffy. Accept the things you cannot change! I have ZERO desire to be anything like you.

 

[BreadOfLife]

There is no argument.
Scripture is Right. I agree with Scripture.
I disagree with YOU.

The Topic IS A QUESTION of Scripture Revealing SINLESSNESS Applies to Any Natural Born Earthly Person.

The ANSWER IS;
No, Scripture Does Not Reveal Any Natural Born Earthly Person, IS Naturally Born SINLESS.

The ANSWER IS;
Scripture Specifically Reveals Jesus (IS the Teacher). Jesus chose and taught His Students. His Students were called Disciples and Apostles. His Students Taught;

Romans 3:
[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

I Trust to Believe the Knowledge of Jesus' Teachings, Revealed to me through Jesus' chosen Apostles.

You reveal, You DO NOT Trust to Believe the Scripture as it is plainly Revealed.

You reveal, You Trust another doctrine, specifically Catholic Doctrine.

And You have explicitly been told; I disagree with You and Your doctrine.

John 3:
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye MUST be born again.

John 3:7 IS PRECISELY about A Spiritual Birth. The NECESSITY and WHY of MUST be born again...
IS Revealed in:

John 3:
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Verified:
All Earthly Humans SEEDS are Corrupt. Corrupt Human male SEEDS Fertilize Corrupt Human female SEEDS and the BLOOD of the Female Placenta FEEDS the Fetus and carries Away Waste from the Fetus.
The LIFE of ALL Earthly Human Body's, (CREATED from a Corrupt Human male SEED and Corrupt Human female SEED, is a Corrupt offspring; and its Life is its BLOOD, and its BLOOD Life; IS Subject To DEATH and SHALL DIE. (Just as you have been on more than one occasion Shown IN Scripture Human Blood LIFE Applies TO Earthly natural born Humans, And expressly, Human BLOOD, Did NOT APPLY To Jesus).

1 Pet. 1:
[23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Pet 1:23 Expressly Reveals the FACT there ARE Births From Corrupt SEEDS and Births From Incorruptable SEEDS.

You Should have Learned By the WORD of God; the First Birth of an Earthly Human, IS ... Natural, Earthy, Sewn, Corrupt... AND SUBJECT TO Death!

You should have Learned By the WORD of God; a Human Body's Corruption CAN NOT BECOME "Born AGAIN", without the FIRST "DYING".

And it is The Thought or Teaching of The FOOLISH TO Teach Otherwise.

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

You Teach a Another doctrine, FOREIGN to Biblical Doctrine.

Biblical Doctrine Does NOT TEACH "Mary" was "First born" Quickened.

No less than a dozen Scriptures Reveal, it was Expressly Jesus ...Born from a woman's womb...without SIN...
and Without the Blood of a human!

Biblical Doctrine Teaches (Specifically WHEN) Jesus' Disciples, Jesus' Followers and MARY Were QUICKENED, Born Again, By the Power of God.
(Acts: 1 & 2)



Correct, as I said. Mary Never Claimed To Be SINLESS, Which IS A TRUE FACT.
(Another TRUE Fact IS; IS YOU MAKE False claims FOR Mary, By YOU claiming Mary was naturally born SINLESS. She didn't claim that. Scripture doesn't claim that. The is YOUR Claim and IS False.
(Thou shalt not bare False Witness)...but you do repeatedly, every time YOU MAKE False claims FOR others!

I have seen no one on this Forum Claiming To Be SINLESS.

What I have SEEN IS: YOU making FALSE CLAIMS...and preaching That what YOU say... Applies TO "OTHERS"!

That ^ is Your False Testimony; which IS attributed TO YOU. YOU, shall be Judged on what YOU MAKE UP and desperately TRY to Dump it on others!

No, Luke 1:28 does Not say Mary WAS naturally born SINLESS!

Luke 1:28 is quite clear.
Luke 1:28 Reveals: an angelic messenger of God came to Mary, greeted Mary, told Mary she was highly favored, told Mary the Lord Is "WITH" her, and told Mary she is "Blessed" among women.

Luke 1:28
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

What the Angelic messenger DID NOT SAY...
Is that Mary:
Was Naturally Born SINLESS.
Is that Mary:
Was "Born Again" By the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

You previously TRIED to argue your point:
Jesus was "IN" Mary's Womb, therefore, Mary was SINLESS, because Jesus was IN Mary's Womb. LOL!

You dropped that point quickly...because it proved nothing, regarding you desperately trying to prove Mary herself was "from her birth" naturally born SINLESS.

A rebirth of A Human, Is A Human Receiving Gods Seed...( IN their new Heart!)
IT IS NOT a HUMAN receiving Gods Seed In a Womb! LOL. (seems YOU did not know, many men have received Gods SEED...and men do not have Wombs)! LOL

Highly favored does NOT mean SINLESS.
The Lord WITH a person does NOT mean SINLESS.
Blessed does NOT mean SINLESS.
Forgiven SIN does NOT mean SINLESS.

Receiving the SEED of God does NOT mean a person has Become SINLESS.

A person who has Become Converted "IS MADE " SEAL unto God and JUSTIFIED ... to be RAISED UP IN Glory...Without Corruption.

Where in All of Scripture IS it Taught "Mary's" BODY, was naturally born Without Sin or that Mary has Been Raised UP "In Glory, Without SIN"?... NaDa... Zip.

I am clear regarding my disagreement and rejection of your doctrine and your teaching.
I provide Scripture to verify WHY I disagree and reject your doctrine and teaching.

You provide...Scriptural References and occasionally Scriptural quotes that neither SAY or Verify your absurd claims.
And you Further make up false claims, make snarky remarks and imply your handling of Scripture is but you playing some sort a game...that you declare yourself the winner, (by and through) your own deceptive means.

You making false claims for others, your failure to provide Scriptural Verifications, your snarky remarks, your handling of Scripture as a game...May Qualify you as a "winner" according to Catholic Teaching...but it does nothing FOR you "according to Jesus' Doctrine."... and I am NOT SUBJECT TO the Lords Judgement for "your" accusations and False Claims.

I stated what was Correct...Mary never claimed she was SINLESS.
She has a host of deceived Catholics, To make a Whole Doctrine of False Claims "For" her.

We all have FREEWILL. I freely chose to Accept Jesus' Doctrine...while freely Rejecting Other Doctrines...in this case...specifically YOUR doctrine!

I already FREELY chose to become and was Converted IN Christ.

(PS you should take that to mean; you failed in your attempt to convince me to Trust, Believe or Convert to Catholicism... )

Don't be all mad and huffy. Accept the things you cannot change! I have ZERO desire to be anything like you.

And you are repeating the errors of your last post.
As I have schooled you several times now Romans 3 is a DIRECT reference to Psalm 14:

Psalm 14:1-5
THE FOOL says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is NO ONE who does good.
The Lord looks down from heaven
on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.
ALL HAVE TURNED AWAY, ALL HAVE BECOME CORRUPT;
there is NO ONE who does good,
not even ONE.
Do all these evildoers know nothing?
They devour my people as though eating bread;
they never call on the Lord.
But there they are, overwhelmed with dread,

This is about UNRIGHTEOUS people who do NO good.
Now, pay attention, because here comes the tricky part . . .

Psalm 14:5-6
for GOD IS PRESENT IN THE COMPANY OF THE RIGHTEOUS.
You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor,
but the Lord is their refuge.

Gee – and I thought it said there were “NONE” righteous . . .

YOUR problem is that you foolishly believe that this is talking about EVERY SINGLE person. It’s NOT – it’s talking about a certain group of people – the FOOLS who reject God.

In Rom. 3, Pail is referencing THIS Psalm (Psalm 14), when he writes:
AS IT IS WRITTEN:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

As for 2 John 3:7 and 1 Pet. 1:23 – they are about being born again SPIRITUALLY and have ZERO to do with incorrupt flesh or glorified bodies.

Do your HOMEWORK . . .

 

[Taken]

And you are repeating the errors of your last post.
As I have schooled you several times now Romans 3 is a DIRECT reference to Psalm 14:

Psalm 14:1-5
THE FOOL says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is NO ONE who does good.
The Lord looks down from heaven
on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.
ALL HAVE TURNED AWAY, ALL HAVE BECOME CORRUPT;
there is NO ONE who does good,
not even ONE.
Do all these evildoers know nothing?
They devour my people as though eating bread;
they never call on the Lord.
But there they are, overwhelmed with dread,

This is about UNRIGHTEOUS people who do NO good.
Now, pay attention, because here comes the tricky part . . .

Psalm 14:5-6
for GOD IS PRESENT IN THE COMPANY OF THE RIGHTEOUS.
You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor,
but the Lord is their refuge.

Gee – and I thought it said there were “NONE” righteous . . .

YOUR problem is that you foolishly believe that this is talking about EVERY SINGLE person. It’s NOT – it’s talking about a certain group of people – the FOOLS who reject God.

In Rom. 3, Pail is referencing THIS Psalm (Psalm 14), when he writes:
AS IT IS WRITTEN:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

As for 2 John 3:7 and 1 Pet. 1:23 – they are about being born again SPIRITUALLY and have ZERO to do with incorrupt flesh or glorified bodies.

Do your HOMEWORK . . .

All that and still not one Scripture that says Mary was SINLESS.

 

[bbyrd009]

best ad for Protestantism i could possibly imagine too

 

[BreadOfLife]

All that and still not one Scripture that says Mary was SINLESS.

Sure there is, and I have repeatedly posted it - Luke 1:28.

Just because YOU reject it doesn't make it "invalid" . . .

 

[Taken]

Sure there is, and I have repeatedly posted it - Luke 1:28.

Just because YOU reject it doesn't make it "invalid" . . .

Luke 1:28 says Mary was naturally born sinless?

Luke 1:28
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

nnnyyyayaya...no.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Luke 1:28 says Mary was naturally born sinless?

Luke 1:28
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

nnnyyyayaya...no.

And as I’ve admonished you MANY times – when in doubt, ALWAYS go to the original Greek text . . .

Luke 1:28
The angel came to her and said, “Greetings, favored one, the Lord is with you!” But she was greatly troubled by his words and began to wonder about the meaning of this greeting.

καὶ εἰσελθὼν πρὸς αὐτὴν εἶπεν· χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη, ὁ κύριος μετὰ σοῦ. ἡ δὲ ἐπὶ τῷ λόγῳ διεταράχθη καὶ διελογίζετο ποταπὸς εἴη ὁ ἀσπασμὸς οὗτος.

κεχαριτωμένη (Kecharitomene) is defined as:
Having been completely, perfectly and enduringly endowed with grace, which is a perfect passive participle, indicating a completed action with a PERMANENT result.

Whereas we are BEING endowed with grace throughout our lives, BEING sanctified and BEING made perfect – Mary was ALREADY completely sanctified and perfectly endowed with grace.

This indicates a sinless person.
It’s not rocket science . . .

 

[Taken]

And as I’ve admonished you MANY times – when in doubt, ALWAYS go to the original Greek text . . .

Luke 1:28
The angel came to her and said, “Greetings, favored one, the Lord is with you!” But she was greatly troubled by his words and began to wonder about the meaning of this greeting.

καὶ εἰσελθὼν πρὸς αὐτὴν εἶπεν· χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη, ὁ κύριος μετὰ σοῦ. ἡ δὲ ἐπὶ τῷ λόγῳ διεταράχθη καὶ διελογίζετο ποταπὸς εἴη ὁ ἀσπασμὸς οὗτος.

κεχαριτωμένη (Kecharitomene) is defined as:
Having been completely, perfectly and enduringly endowed with grace, which is a perfect passive participle, indicating a completed action with a PERMANENT result.

Whereas we are BEING endowed with grace throughout our lives, BEING sanctified and BEING made perfect – Mary was ALREADY completely sanctified and perfectly endowed with grace.

This indicates a sinless person.

Your doctrine is based on an opinioned indication. Fascinating, but not Scriptural.

 

[RogerDC]

Your doctrine is based on an opinioned indication. Fascinating, but not Scriptural.

BOL's doctrine is based on the doctrines of the one, true Church, whose doctrines are the infallible word of God and are as valid as any Sacred Scripture. The Church's doctrines don't even need Scriptural evidence. The Bible came from the Church, the Church did not come from the Bible.

The guidance of the Holy Spirit allows the Church to shed light on the Scriptures that is impossible otherwise. Your readings of the Scriptures are therefore superficial and incomplete - you don't understand them properly because you have not be taught by God's Church.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your doctrine is based on an opinioned indication. Fascinating, but not Scriptural.

It's linguistic fact.
You have NEVER been able to get past "Kecharitomene".

Denial is not a valid argument . . .

 

[Taken]

BOL's doctrine is based on the doctrines of the one, true Church,

Well aware, of BOL's , "own one true" Catholic church.

whose doctrines are the infallible word of God

"AND" the "supposed" infallible word of appointed and elected men "by men" and "their" established and written creeds

are as valid as any Sacred Scripture.

.

Well of course, since the source, is dependant upon the agreement of the member to BE in agreement with the "source" (elected and appointed men, by men) and the Member agreeing to rely on the validity of such source.

The Church's doctrines don't even need Scriptural evidence.

"The Church"...which YOU SPEAK of is obviously, "The church"...YOU have agreeded, is exclusively..."The Catholic church"...which FYI, is NOT "Every" mans choice to be yoked with in agreement.
And Agree, your Catholic church, DOES NOT NEED Scriptural Source Evidence, for what THAT church Teaches. Remember...your membership agreement is to agree with elected and appointed men, that other men have elected and appointed.

The Bible came from the Church, the Church did not come from the Bible.

The Bible came from writings of men, "The Lord God appointed TO Write", "Before" gentile men (took over the churches established by Jews), and began calling "their" churches Catholic, and Electing "Their own appointed holy father".

The guidance of the Holy Spirit allows the Church to shed light on the Scriptures that is impossible otherwise.

I am well aware of "WHO" the Holy Spirit IS, and "WHAT" He Does, and Specifically "HOW" an "INDIVDUAL" may FREELY choose and Elect to have The Holy Spirit;
To be With an individual...
To be Without an individual...
To be IN an individual...
To be OUTSIDE of an individual...

Your readings of the Scriptures are therefore superficial and incomplete -

And YOU, present yourself as a TYPICALLY Taught Catholic!
YOU ... WHOM I DO NOT Know, Have NEVER before conversed with:
Per a Typical Catholic you Begin your dialogue speaking "FOR" BOL...and end your dialogue "as if" You are qualified To speak "FOR" ME.
Per Typical Catholic Teaching ... you accuse others what you reveal applies to yourself!

Superficial? I am not the one saying:

The Church's doctrines don't even need Scriptural evidence.

That is your quote, not mine.

you don't understand them properly because you have not be taught by God's Church.

FYI- I do NOT believe Christ the Lords CHURCH is exclusively Your Catholic church.

I have made No agreement with your church's doctrine to agree with or for your elected and appointed men to dictate my beliefs and understanding of the WORD of God.

While "your" membership appears to be WITH the man made Catholic Church, and agreement with appointed and elected gentile men...

My membership is in Christ's Church, that Christ is thereof "the Foundation and Head" established By His Authority and Power, and forward through His Chosen Jewish men, He chose to write and distribute HIS word of Truth and Knowledge "FOR" ALL to hear.

My membership TO Christ's Church was Sanctioned and Accepted BY Christ, as I promised by MY word, and Christ Promised by His Word; that the Holy Spirit and His Power IS WITHIN me.

(And NOT ONCE was, Catholic, an "earthly" elected holy father, Mary, Christian, Tribes of Israel mentioned "during" MY election to JOIN Christ's Church.)

Your Catholic church, by your own admission, does not have a doctrine that such ...

doctrine even need Scriptural evidence

I Agree. Your appointed and elected men have devised a doctrine (that DOES NOT need Scriptural Evidence), that "THEY" also determine the Understanding ; and you appear to be one Accepting Of their doctrine And their Understanding thereof.

I Do Not.

I chose to Trust to Believe Christ Jesus' Knowledge and doctrine, written by Jewish men.
I chose to Trust Christ's Teaching THAT HIS WORD of Knowledge "IS" Paramount, Absolute TRUTH...AND the Understanding OF HIS WORD of Knowledge...is exclusively "Given" By The Lord God, "TO" Particular "individuals".

IOW...a man, any man can make his own doctrines and declare the understanding of his doctrines.

I Trust Jesus has revealed His Doctrine and His Understanding of His Doctrine IS exclusively Given To particular Individuals ONLY, by the Lord God.

That ^ ... IS Evidenced IN Biblical Scripture...
Which I choose to Trust...and You have revealed: you require no such need!

I am quite content with my choice of WHO'S doctrine, word and understanding I have chosen TO exclusively Trust...
As you have made clear "Your" choice.

It is Obvious you and I have made different choices. Not a Big Secret...the Lord God made mankind with the Liberty for each his own to make his own choices.

Try to contain your tongue and not pretend yourself qualified to speak FOR me. You were Not Present when The Lord and I established His and mine Relationship ... Nor are you present when the Lord and I are in conversation.

Have a nice day.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[RogerDC]

AND" the "supposed" infallible word of appointed and elected men "by men" and "their" established and written

Exactly - just as the infallible words of the Bible were written by appointed and elected men. The same process of men being infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit is at work in God's one, true Church - the Catholic Church.

 

[RogerDC]

I stated what was Correct...Mary never claimed she was SINLESS.

So what? That doesn't prove she wasn't. Did Jesus claim He was sinless?

 

[RogerDC]

So my question is, coming from a non Catholic background, do some Catholics really support the Vatican and the Pope trying to bring together Christians + Islam, THE CHRISLAM MOVEMENT ? Or is this just the Radical Catholics? My Catholic friends do not support the Chrislam Movement, so there must be different types/levels of Catholicism?

A Pope's individual schemes should not be confused with Catholic doctrine. Building bridges with other religions doesn't offend Catholic doctrine - Jesus said "Blessed be the peace-makers", after all.

Not everything a Pope says or does is infallible.

 

[Taken]

Exactly - just as the infallible words of the Bible were written by appointed and elected men.

You missed the POINT!
Writings of the OT, of men Appointed...
BY God.
Writings of the NT, of men Appointed...
BY Jesus Christ.

The same process of men being infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit is at work in God's one, true Church - the Catholic Church.

The Appointed men Calling themselves Catholic did NOT write the Bible.

We can credit them (Catholics) with Appointing Catholic men To Interpret the Meaning (Understanding) of the Knowledge IN the Bible...(with their Carnal Minds and Philosophies)...

And ignorant and illiterate masses of men, for centuries, "relied on Catholic men" TO tell the masses, the meaning of Biblical Scriptures.

The Catholic choice of the Latin Language preference, was decided in Counsel, in 1570.
The Church spread abroad..and the deliverance of Scripture remained in Latin...

Wow...Jewish men received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and IMMEDIATELY began speaking to people IN Their OWN native language.

ACTS 2:
[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
[5] And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
[6] Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Catholics convened again in Counsel...in the 1960's. Nearly 400 years later..."They" authorizing the Scriptures be READ TO the listeners in "THEIR" native language.

You may not have noticed the changes in that 400 year span... but Wars, and Convience, and instant Express everything, and Divorce, and Governments and children raising children has become society's WISE... Acceptable practice.

Catholics are NOT Unique. They want the short-cut convenience of UNDERSTANDING..."of what The Knowledge of Scripture MEANS"...

And Catholic Clerics as well as many Protestant Clerics are more than happy to fill the pews with men desiring SOMEONE to Tell them the Understanding of Scripture.

The Uniqueness of a Catholic Cleric, is to First Claim...their Appointed "holy father" IS infallible concerning the Scriptures...
And when "he" declares what something means...it can not be anything But the Absolute Truth.

In a nutshell, it is a Twisted but Clever method of MIND control.

Why do you NOT Trust the WARNINGS and FACTS in Scripture itself?

Col 2:
[8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Nations ARE the Masses of People ON the Earth.
WHOM DID God Himself APPOINT as "a" father To Believing masses of People ON the Earth?

Gen 17:
[4] As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

Why is accepting "Abraham" (Appointed BY God) as an earthly "Earthly" father to Earthly men...on the wayside? ..as Catholics instead Appoint an Earthly man...and give him the title of..."holy father"?

Utterly weird and cunningly deceptive.

As I said, I FREELY have the Option, and have Chosen to NOT Subscribe to, or Agree with, your Catholic Teachings or Doctrines...
That You have openly admitted require no need of Scriptural Verificational Evidence.

You certainly have the Choice TO: Go cast your eyes upon your statues of Mary, pray your prayers to her for intercession and salvation...I have already chosen the ONLY intercessory, (Christ Jesus), sent FROM God, whom, HAS already Acted on my behalf: with His Mercy of Forgiveness, His endowing me With His Grace, His Salvation of my soul & His Quickening of my spirit...as HIS WORD and Authority IS TRUE.

Seek the "Truth" from Jesus and the "Understanding" of the TRUTH from God...

1 Chr 22:
[12] Only the LORD give thee wisdom and understanding...

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

So what? That doesn't prove she wasn't.

Scripture itself proves Mary was not Sinless.

All natural born humans were conceived in Sin, born in Sin, have committed Sin.

You can trust to believe Scripture, or Not.

Jesus is evidenced numerous times that:
He came forth out from God IN Heaven...
He came down from Heaven to Earth...
He was, is, Without Sin.

Did Jesus claim He was sinless?

Jesus claimed He came forth out from God...
Do you believe SIN resides IN God, and comes forth out from God?