Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?

[BreadOfLife]

Post #1646.

I made a biblically true statement about Jesus. You said it was "Wrong", and have been lying about it ever since. Still are. That's how you roll.

Can you post at least ONCE without being dishonest??

THIS is the part of your lost that I was objecting to - NOT the part about Christ:
"But thanks for unwittingly clarifying that you don't know the actual truth about the church and that you have allowed for fallible men in your doctrine. That's has been the problem from the beginning of the would-be church, and you are obviously you are their offspring."

Nothing remotely true about that statement - as usual . . .

 

[Yehren]

Barbarian suggests:
Perhaps you don't know what that rule is. It doesn't mean Popes are invariably right about all things, nor does it even mean they will all be good men. Would you like to learn what it actually means?

No, if you are going to give me a definition of infallible that doesn't mean infallible...I'll pass.

Papal infallibility applies only to statements ex Cathedra concerning faith or morals. If he declares that Juventus will win the league cup this year, the statement carries no more weight than whatever expertise he might have concerning professional football. If he declares that celibacy in the priesthood is a matter of doctrine, not a discipline, it means nothing but an opinion, if not issued ex Cathedra.

Besides, I know what it means.

See above. Your assumptions got the best of you.

 

[ScottA]

Can you post at least ONCE without being dishonest??

THIS is the part of your lost that I was objecting to - NOT the part about Christ:
"But thanks for unwittingly clarifying that you don't know the actual truth about the church and that you have allowed for fallible men in your doctrine. That's has been the problem from the beginning of the would-be church, and you are obviously you are their offspring."

Nothing remotely true about that statement - as usual . . .

Both my statements were the same but "in other words" (for explanation). It is a scriptural writing style called tautology. But obviously you are not getting it.

Either way, I was just saying (just as the scriptures do) that Jesus and His church are perfect. And you say that biblical fact is "wrong."

And that is why you are in a church that has been wrong from the beginning.

 

[ScottA]

Barbarian suggests:
Perhaps you don't know what that rule is. It doesn't mean Popes are invariably right about all things, nor does it even mean they will all be good men. Would you like to learn what it actually means?



Papal infallibility applies only to statements ex Cathedra concerning faith or morals. If he declares that Juventus will win the league cup this year, the statement carries no more weight than whatever expertise he might have concerning professional football. If he declares that celibacy in the priesthood is a matter of doctrine, not a discipline, it means nothing but an opinion, if not issued ex Cathedra.



See above. Your assumptions got the best of you.

No, I was never taken in by that nonsense. No assumptions. No partaking.

 

[Yehren]

No, I was never taken in by that nonsense. No assumptions. No partaking.

I see your denial, but I also see that you were surprised that infallibility is not what you thought it was.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Both my statements were the same but "in other words" (for explanation). It is a scriptural writing style called tautology. But obviously you are not getting it.

Either way, I was just saying (just as the scriptures do) that Jesus and His church are perfect. And you say that biblical fact is "wrong."

And that is why you are in a church that has been wrong from the beginning.

Christ is perfect and His Church is made up of imperfect people.
The Church is not a museum of perfect saints. It's a hospital for sinners.

Your arrogance is getting the best of you again . . .

 

[Giuliano]

Christ is perfect and His Church is made up of imperfect people.
The Church is not a museum of perfect saints. It's a hospital for sinners.

Your arrogance is getting the best of you again . . .

What should we think if some of the physicians in a hospital were sicker than their patients?

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God? )
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

 

[ScottA]

I see your denial, but I also see that you were surprised that infallibility is not what you thought it was.

Surprised that people "call evil good, and good evil; and put darkness for light?"

No...not surprised.

 

[ScottA]

Christ is perfect and His Church is made up of imperfect people.
The Church is not a museum of perfect saints. It's a hospital for sinners.

Your arrogance is getting the best of you again . . .

That is the teachings of men, false doctrine, that doctrine which you follow. But you confuse those who are called, with those who are chosen,
Matthew 22:14 (read your bible).

Matthew 5:48
Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 16:17-18
"Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."

John 17:23
"I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me."

Hebrews 10:14
"For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified."

Hebrews 12:22-24
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel."

 

[Yehren]

Yehren notices:
I see your denial, but I also see that you were surprised that infallibility is not what you thought it was.

Surprised that people "call evil good, and good evil; and put darkness for light?"

No, you were surprised to learn that infallibility is not what you thought it was. I don't think you necessarily call evil, "good." I think you're so locked into your denominational box that you can't accept that other Christians don't think exactly like you.

 

[ScottA]

Yehren notices:
I see your denial, but I also see that you were surprised that infallibility is not what you thought it was.



No, you were surprised to learn that infallibility is not what you thought it was. I don't think you necessarily call evil, "good." I think you're so locked into your denominational box that you can't accept that other Christians don't think exactly like you.

You are projecting your own psychological tenancies on me. Stop telling me what I think.

I do not think, but know, for I do not follow what is mine.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What should we think if some of the physicians in a hospital were sicker than their patients?

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God? )
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

I don’t know.
Why don’t YOU tell ME . . .

Chicago Pastor Arrested for Allegedly Sexually Abusing Twin ...

These 24 Pastors Were All Arrested for Sex Crimes against ...

When Protestant Leaders Didn't Take Abuse Victims Seriously ...

Child Sexual Abuse in Protestant Christian ... - MDPI

Report: Protestant Church Insurers Handle 260 Sex Abuse ...

The epidemic of denial about sexual abuse in the evangelical ...

Southern Baptists' sexual abuse scandal prompts calls for ...

The Church's Abuse Problem: It's Not Just a Catholic Thing

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is the teachings of men, false doctrine, that doctrine which you follow. But you confuse those who are called, with those who are chosen,
Matthew 22:14 (read your bible).

Matthew 5:48
Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 16:17-18
"Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."

John 17:23
"I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me."

Hebrews 10:14
"For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified."

Hebrews 12:22-24
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel."

Once again – spoken like a guy who doesn’t know his Bible . . .

The Church is made up of imperfect people:
- Paul rebuked Peter for his bad behavior against the Gentiles (Gal. 2:11-13).
- Paul and Barnabas split over an argument involving Mark, who deserted them in Pamphylia (Acts 16:26-41).

- James tells his congregation to “Confess your sins to one another” (James 5:16).
- John tells his congregation that they are LYING if they say that they have no sin – and the truth is NOT in them (1 John 1:8).
- Paul tells his readers that he still sins – even though he is a changed man in Christ (Rom. 7:15-25).

If you’re looking for “perfect” people – you ‘re NOT going to find them in Christ’s Church. Not until they have been MADE perfect in Heaven.

And, if you THINK the Church is comprised of only perfect people – you don’t know Christ OR the Word of God . . .

 

[ScottA]

Once again – spoken like a guy who doesn’t know his Bible . . .

The Church is made up of imperfect people:
- Paul rebuked Peter for his bad behavior against the Gentiles (Gal. 2:11-13).
- Paul and Barnabas split over an argument involving Mark, who deserted them in Pamphylia (Acts 16:26-41).

- James tells his congregation to “Confess your sins to one another” (James 5:16).
- John tells his congregation that they are LYING if they say that they have no sin – and the truth is NOT in them (1 John 1:8).
- Paul tells his readers that he still sins – even though he is a changed man in Christ (Rom. 7:15-25).

If you’re looking for “perfect” people – you ‘re NOT going to find them in Christ’s Church. Not until they have been MADE perfect in Heaven.

And, if you THINK the Church is comprised of only perfect people – you don’t know Christ OR the Word of God . . .

As I said, to their shame...and yours for considering it normal, you can indeed find imperfection in the worldly church. You have gone through the trash and found justification for what is not of God to be in Christ's church. Terrific. But it doesn't work that way.

You read, but lack understanding.

That is not keeping holy what is holy. That is not the holy church, but darkness.

 

[Giuliano]

I don’t know.
Why don’t YOU tell ME . . .

Chicago Pastor Arrested for Allegedly Sexually Abusing Twin ...

These 24 Pastors Were All Arrested for Sex Crimes against ...

When Protestant Leaders Didn't Take Abuse Victims Seriously ...

Child Sexual Abuse in Protestant Christian ... - MDPI

Report: Protestant Church Insurers Handle 260 Sex Abuse ...

The epidemic of denial about sexual abuse in the evangelical ...

Southern Baptists' sexual abuse scandal prompts calls for ...

The Church's Abuse Problem: It's Not Just a Catholic Thing

I guess the Catholic and Protestant leaders are about equal then when it comes to dealing with sin.

Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

 

[BreadOfLife]

I guess the Catholic and Protestant leaders are about equal then when it comes to dealing with sin.

Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Again – in your infinite ignorance, you fail to understand that there are only THREE kinds of Christians:
Those who belong too the Catholic Church
Those who belong to the Orthodox Churches
Those who belong to the Protestant denominations

So – unless you’re a Catholic or Orthodox Christian – you’re a Protestant – or you’re NOT a Christian at all.

Judging by your wacky posts – I think the latter is true . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

As I said, to their shame...and yours for considering it normal, you can indeed find imperfection in the worldly church. You have gone through the trash and found justification for what is not of God to be in Christ's church. Terrific. But it doesn't work that way.

You read, but lack understanding.

That is not keeping holy what is holy. That is not the holy church, but darkness.

And if you call Scriptural evidence, “going through the trash” – then I guess you’ve made up your mind to reject God to the end.

Good luck with that . . .

 

[Giuliano]

Again – in your infinite ignorance, you fail to understand that there are only THREE kinds of Christians:
Those who belong too the Catholic Church
Those who belong to the Orthodox Churches
Those who belong to the Protestant denominations

So – unless you’re a Catholic or Orthodox Christian – you’re a Protestant – or you’re NOT a Christian at all.

Judging by your wacky posts – I think the latter is true . . .

So you say.

I say there's two kinds: Real ones and phony ones.

Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

I would not allow a Catholic bishop or priests to lay hands on me anymore than I would invite some far out Protestant clergy to. If Christianity is a hospital, I want medical staff that knows they are doing. It the clergy are obviously sick themselves, why would I believe they know how to heal me? I'd be afraid to get a demon if some of these "physicians" laid hands on me.

Speaking of fakers, I see Ernest Angley's private jet is grounded. He can't pay the bills to keep it flying. I think that's great that people aren't giving all the money he used to get from deceived people.

Story here: Televangelist Ernest Angley reportedly cannot pay to fix grounded ministry jet

I also don't care when Catholic dioceses go bankrupt.

 

[Yehren]

You are projecting your own psychological tenancies on me.

When you declined to say what you thought it was, that tipped everyone off.

Stop telling me what I think.

It's very transparent.

 

[ScottA]

And if you call Scriptural evidence, “going through the trash” – then I guess you’ve made up your mind to reject God to the end.

Good luck with that . . .

We are both calling evil within the church evil.

The difference is, you are making a case against Christ building His church only from the spirit of the Father whom is holy, trying to show proof that He has allowed in evil. But He has not, men have...which is rather proof of a church not built by Christ, but by men against Christ.

And you identify with that group. Not good.