Is Water Baptism Necessary for Salvation ?
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For salvation? No. Even before the words leave your lips the Lord has regenerated your spirit at conversion.
Now, baptism SHOULD be your first public display of obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ and ought to be performed before any other Christian service, but that is an "ought to" and not an out and out Law.
Now, baptism SHOULD be your first public display of obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ and ought to be performed before any other Christian service, but that is an "ought to" and not an out and out Law.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
We are called to follow Christ.....following His example is part of our transformation and redemption. Jesus was baptised and He called His followers to be baptised and to baptise others. It makes sense that baptism by Spirit AND water would be a part of the process of our souls.
Repentance is the only condition for salvation, everything else (baptism included) is our Christian DUTY in thanks for that salvation.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Jesus isn't talking about baptism there at all. After all, isn't Jesus the "living water" demonstrated at the well? Christ is talking about being born in Him ( the living water) and the Spirit that was yet to come. Or is Ephesians 2:8-9 not part of your translation?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Jesus calls us to repent and be baptized. John 3:5 is absolutely taking about water baptism. Reformers tried to deny this because they were trying to take authority away from the church. The verse is clear.
Show me the word baptism in that verse or anywhere in the discussion with Nicodemus. It just is not there unless one wants it to be there.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
So was Jesus in a river of Jesus, being baptised by Jesus when the HS descended upon Him? Are there exceptions to the rule? Always! But this does not negate what Jesus did in the river of water and commanded His followers to do. I am not called follow Nicodemus, I am called to follow Christ.
But Jesus is NOT talking about baptism in that passage, you are arguing the conclusion, a logical fallacy. Since baptism is not in focus here you previous post is utter nonsense.
Baptism is not a requirement for salvation. Romans 10:9. Water baptism is a type that coincides with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Acts 11:16
Jesus was baptized by John to fulfill all righteousness. Matthew 3:15 a righteousness apart from the law. Romans 3:21-22.
Romans 3
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Jesus is speaking about himself, the word that cleanses....
1 John 5
6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
Ephesians 5:26
that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,
-----------------------------------------------
The only requirement for salvation, noted in:
Romans 10
[sup]8[/sup] But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”(that is, the word of faith which we preach): [sup]9[/sup] that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [sup]10[/sup] For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. [sup]11[/sup] For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”[sup]12[/sup] For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. [sup]13[/sup] For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
At the beginning of Acts Peter commands followers to be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins...then they who were baptized will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
In Acts 8, we see that those who were baptized in Jesus were not filled with the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:16
For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. [speaking of the Holy Spirit]. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts10:9-16 God gives Peter a dream - in this dream he encounters all kinds of unclean animals...God commands him to kill and eat but he cannot because no unclean thing had ever passed his lips. Here, we understand that Peter follows the Law of Moses. God goes on to say: “What God has cleansed you must not call common.”
Cornelius the centurion. In Acts 10:44-45 God pours out his Spirit on the Gentiles who were listening to Peter preach. These Gentiles were not baptized by water at that time.
Peter then says in Acts 47
“Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
Water baptism today is not a requirement, however many believers like to be baptized as a symbol of their commitment and confession of faith before God and the assembly. It is a good witness to unbelieving family members and friends who are invited to come along to watch. It also gives opportunity to give your testimony and be prayed/ prophesied over by the Church....an all round blessing for all.... ^_^
Shalom!
Jesus was baptized by John to fulfill all righteousness. Matthew 3:15 a righteousness apart from the law. Romans 3:21-22.
Romans 3
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Jesus is speaking about himself, the word that cleanses....
1 John 5
6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
Ephesians 5:26
that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,
-----------------------------------------------
The only requirement for salvation, noted in:
Romans 10
[sup]8[/sup] But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”(that is, the word of faith which we preach): [sup]9[/sup] that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [sup]10[/sup] For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. [sup]11[/sup] For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”[sup]12[/sup] For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. [sup]13[/sup] For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
At the beginning of Acts Peter commands followers to be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins...then they who were baptized will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
In Acts 8, we see that those who were baptized in Jesus were not filled with the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:16
For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. [speaking of the Holy Spirit]. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts10:9-16 God gives Peter a dream - in this dream he encounters all kinds of unclean animals...God commands him to kill and eat but he cannot because no unclean thing had ever passed his lips. Here, we understand that Peter follows the Law of Moses. God goes on to say: “What God has cleansed you must not call common.”
Cornelius the centurion. In Acts 10:44-45 God pours out his Spirit on the Gentiles who were listening to Peter preach. These Gentiles were not baptized by water at that time.
Peter then says in Acts 47
“Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
Water baptism today is not a requirement, however many believers like to be baptized as a symbol of their commitment and confession of faith before God and the assembly. It is a good witness to unbelieving family members and friends who are invited to come along to watch. It also gives opportunity to give your testimony and be prayed/ prophesied over by the Church....an all round blessing for all.... ^_^
Shalom!
Prentis
New Member
Was Abraham justified by faith before or after being circumcised?
Before.
Baptism is a sign both to the world and to the powers and principalities that we have died with Christ, and are raised with him.
To be of the saints, we must now walk this way!
Before.
Baptism is a sign both to the world and to the powers and principalities that we have died with Christ, and are raised with him.
To be of the saints, we must now walk this way!
Prentis
New Member
Ok.
having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. (Col. 2:12)
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. (Rom. 6:4)
[sup]10[/sup] to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, (Ephesians 3)
1 Corinthians 4:9
For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; for we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men.
Thanks Prentis
the baptism of death - that Jesus undergoes on our behalf, Mark 10:38 Luke 12:49-50, Romans 6:3-5,
and the baptism of the Holy Spirit that is promised after his ascension John 14:15-16, 26, 28-29, Acts2:38.
The Jews were well acquainted with baptism's as it was part of their ceremonial washings under the law. Exodus 29:4; Leviticus 8:6; 17:15-16; 22:4-6, and Numbers 19:7-8., Mk. 7:1-4.
John preached repentance to Israel, the Gentiles were excluded at this period of time. Acts 13:23-24. This is also confirmed in Matthew 15:24 when Jesus speaks to the Canaanite woman saying: "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Peter says in Acts 10:
[sup]34[/sup] Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism [sup]35[/sup] but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right. [sup]36[/sup] You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. [sup]37[/sup] You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— [sup]38[/sup] how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
Peter relates his story to his brethren in Jerusalem about the Gentiles receiving the same gift of the Holy Spirit that they had received.
Acts 11
[sup]18[/sup] When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
This happened before they were baptized by water.
The only requirement given to the Gentiles who were receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit by the Council of Elders in Jerusalem were as follows:
Acts 15:
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’—
18 things known from long ago.
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
Water baptism is not a requirement for believers. It is a type/shadow which pointed to Jesus, Ha Mashiach, his sinless life, sacrificial death, resurrection, ascension, and pouring out of the gift of holy spirit. The Good News which was given to all who believe by faith.
The only requirement for salvation are as follows:
Romans 10
[sup]8[/sup] But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”(that is, the word of faith which we preach): [sup]9[/sup] that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [sup]10[/sup] For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Shalom!
There are three baptisms that are clearly noted in the NT. The baptism of repentance that John preaches, Matthew 3:11,Mark1:14-15, Luke 3:3, Acts 5:31,
the baptism of death - that Jesus undergoes on our behalf, Mark 10:38 Luke 12:49-50, Romans 6:3-5,
and the baptism of the Holy Spirit that is promised after his ascension John 14:15-16, 26, 28-29, Acts2:38.
The Jews were well acquainted with baptism's as it was part of their ceremonial washings under the law. Exodus 29:4; Leviticus 8:6; 17:15-16; 22:4-6, and Numbers 19:7-8., Mk. 7:1-4.
John preached repentance to Israel, the Gentiles were excluded at this period of time. Acts 13:23-24. This is also confirmed in Matthew 15:24 when Jesus speaks to the Canaanite woman saying: "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Peter says in Acts 10:
[sup]34[/sup] Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism [sup]35[/sup] but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right. [sup]36[/sup] You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. [sup]37[/sup] You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— [sup]38[/sup] how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
Peter relates his story to his brethren in Jerusalem about the Gentiles receiving the same gift of the Holy Spirit that they had received.
Acts 11
[sup]18[/sup] When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
This happened before they were baptized by water.
The only requirement given to the Gentiles who were receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit by the Council of Elders in Jerusalem were as follows:
Acts 15:
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’—
18 things known from long ago.
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
Water baptism is not a requirement for believers. It is a type/shadow which pointed to Jesus, Ha Mashiach, his sinless life, sacrificial death, resurrection, ascension, and pouring out of the gift of holy spirit. The Good News which was given to all who believe by faith.
The only requirement for salvation are as follows:
Romans 10
[sup]8[/sup] But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”(that is, the word of faith which we preach): [sup]9[/sup] that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [sup]10[/sup] For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Shalom!
Prentis
New Member
Ah! But receiving the Holy Spirit does not mean the END of our salvation! Rather it is an entering into... But the race is still before us.
After all, it says that those who have tasted of the heavenly gift, of the Spirit, can fall away...
[sup]4[/sup] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [sup]5[/sup] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [sup]6[/sup] if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
[sup]7[/sup] For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; [sup]8[/sup] but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
Coming out of Egypt is not enough, we must conquer the land!
Psalm 51:11
Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. (1 Cor. 9:27)
After all, it says that those who have tasted of the heavenly gift, of the Spirit, can fall away...
[sup]4[/sup] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [sup]5[/sup] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [sup]6[/sup] if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
[sup]7[/sup] For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; [sup]8[/sup] but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
Coming out of Egypt is not enough, we must conquer the land!
Psalm 51:11
Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. (1 Cor. 9:27)
Hi Prentis,
The OP was "Is Water Baptism Necessary for Salvation?" As you can see...it is not. Our hope is in full redemption when Jesus comes again whether we are alive then or not. Hebrews 9:28 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10
The Holy Spirit is our helper John 14:15-16 and seal of our salvation Ephesians 1:13-14, 4:30. A deposit guaranteeing our inheritance 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:4-6.
Sanctification is another thing entirely...the Holy Spirit helps us in this process. Galatians 5:16-17
Paul says in Philippians 3:12 "Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. 16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind."
He speaks again of not attaining perfection quite yet, but presses on toward the upward call in Jesus...the end result of our hope...which is salvation in it's fullness [Hebrews 9:28]
PS: we have discussed this subject before...perhaps you would like to do that again on another thread...
Bless you!
The OP was "Is Water Baptism Necessary for Salvation?" As you can see...it is not. Our hope is in full redemption when Jesus comes again whether we are alive then or not. Hebrews 9:28 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10
The Holy Spirit is our helper John 14:15-16 and seal of our salvation Ephesians 1:13-14, 4:30. A deposit guaranteeing our inheritance 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:4-6.
Sanctification is another thing entirely...the Holy Spirit helps us in this process. Galatians 5:16-17
Paul says in Philippians 3:12 "Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. 16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind."
He speaks again of not attaining perfection quite yet, but presses on toward the upward call in Jesus...the end result of our hope...which is salvation in it's fullness [Hebrews 9:28]
PS: we have discussed this subject before...perhaps you would like to do that again on another thread...
Bless you!
FHII
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I do believe we have to be baptized, and if you want to say “by water”, ok. But I do not think we have to have a “water baptism”.
We are all familiar with these verses:
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
We see the word “baptizing” in these verses, and that means “to whelm”. It does suggest in fluid, but in these verses and others, it doesn’t necessarily mean “to whelm with fluid”. I have heard the word “baptize” to mean “to emmerse”, and I like that definition. Jesus charged the disciples twice in these verses to “teach”. Thus, we should be baptized or emmersed in the teaching of Christ.
We know that Jesus was baptized by water via John. However, what did John say to the Pharisees? He said in Matthew 3:11 that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire. So John’s baptism was by water. Jesus baptizes with fire. How come we don’t see many people being baptized with literal fire?
Many have already said Jesus was the “water”, and with many good verses to back that up. So when we are baptized into Christ, we are baptized with the spiritual water. Furthermore, when we are taught in the word, we are baptize also in the fire (Heb 12:29).
We must be baptized into Christ (Gal 3:27). Peter said in Acts 2 to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. There are other similar verses.
However, even though Paul said he baptized very few, there are examples of literal water baptism. So it’s not wrong. I’ve never done it literally, but I would imagine it is a special occasion for some, and because I don’t have a verse that is against it (an examples as it being done), I can’t come against it. But realize the real baptism is being done when you read the Bible or hear it preached and practice it in your spiritual life (and ok, just for you Prentis) and your fleshly life as well.
We are all familiar with these verses:
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
We see the word “baptizing” in these verses, and that means “to whelm”. It does suggest in fluid, but in these verses and others, it doesn’t necessarily mean “to whelm with fluid”. I have heard the word “baptize” to mean “to emmerse”, and I like that definition. Jesus charged the disciples twice in these verses to “teach”. Thus, we should be baptized or emmersed in the teaching of Christ.
We know that Jesus was baptized by water via John. However, what did John say to the Pharisees? He said in Matthew 3:11 that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire. So John’s baptism was by water. Jesus baptizes with fire. How come we don’t see many people being baptized with literal fire?
Many have already said Jesus was the “water”, and with many good verses to back that up. So when we are baptized into Christ, we are baptized with the spiritual water. Furthermore, when we are taught in the word, we are baptize also in the fire (Heb 12:29).
We must be baptized into Christ (Gal 3:27). Peter said in Acts 2 to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. There are other similar verses.
However, even though Paul said he baptized very few, there are examples of literal water baptism. So it’s not wrong. I’ve never done it literally, but I would imagine it is a special occasion for some, and because I don’t have a verse that is against it (an examples as it being done), I can’t come against it. But realize the real baptism is being done when you read the Bible or hear it preached and practice it in your spiritual life (and ok, just for you Prentis) and your fleshly life as well.
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