Isn’t it odd that the apostles never questioned Jesus about his forever torture chamber?

[Chrysostomos]

Christianity does not promote Hell as a Threat.

Jesus does.

Christianity offers the way out of Hell.

Now, will an Evangelist or a seasoned Pastor use the threat of Hell to try to scare a certain type of person out of Hell and into Heaven?
Jude did and wrote about it.
I'm sure Paul did also, when necessary.

It seems to me that sometimes Christians like you want to come across as better than you actually are.

Have you never had a moment where you think, "Man, I’d love to punch that jerk in the face, but..."?

I bet you have, if you’re a normal person.

The thing is, the reason you don’t actually punch the guy isn’t always, "Oh, I just love people so much."

If that’s always your mindset, then my apologies—maybe you’re the reincarnation of Buddha.

I’ve had thoughts like, "I’d punch that jerk, but his buddies would probably jump me, and I’d be in trouble," or "I’d punch that jerk, but I don’t want to deal with the cops afterward."

The carrot-and-stick approach—heaven as the reward, hell as the consequence—has been a working model forever.
It’s not the whole story of Christianity, but it’s a real part of it, just like in any society that uses rewards and punishments to guide behavior. No shame in admitting it’s effective.

 

[Lambano]

The carrot-and-stick approach—heaven as the reward, hell as the consequence—has been a working model forever.
It’s not the whole story of Christianity, but it’s a real part of it, just like in any society that uses rewards and punishments to guide behavior. No shame in admitting it’s effective.

Thank you, Chrysostomos, for calling bulls*** what it is. That's what I should have done.

 

[Chrysostomos]

Thank you, Chrysostomos, for calling bulls*** what it is. That's what I should have done.

No thanks needed. I couldn’t just pass by and had to say what I think.

 

[ScottA]

It's my understanding that Judaism doesn't teach such a doctrine. So a forever torture chamber would certainly have been a radical new concept to the Apostles. And then consider that Jesus, who described himself as the "good shepherd", would never stop searching for the lost and who advocated strongly for mercy and forgiveness was suddenly threatening the unrepentant to a forever torture chamber. Yet, there is no mention in the scriptures of the Apostles questioning Jesus about it. Why is that?

Jesus' apostles sure should or might have. In Matthew Jesus mentioned it 7 times, in Mark 3 times, in Luke 1 time; then mentioned by James and Peter, each once.

 

[Behold]

It seems to me that sometimes Christians like you want to come across as better than you actually are.

It seems to me that you seem kinda ignorant of correct Pauline theology, based on what you believe and share, according to your posts and Threads.

"Man, I’d love to punch that jerk in the face, but..."?

Thats easy for you to imply in my direction , when you are hiding behind your laptop, isn't it... @Chrysostomos

 

[JohnDB]

It's my understanding that Judaism doesn't teach such a doctrine. So a forever torture chamber would certainly have been a radical new concept to the Apostles. And then consider that Jesus, who described himself as the "good shepherd", would never stop searching for the lost and who advocated strongly for mercy and forgiveness was suddenly threatening the unrepentant to a forever torture chamber. Yet, there is no mention in the scriptures of the Apostles questioning Jesus about it. Why is that?

Mostly because you are not that familiar with the Anthropology of the Ancient Near East.
And
You are trying to force an answer out of an ancient culture that conforms to a more modern question.

The modern thought surrounds modern concepts of motivational factors.

 

[NotTheRock]

Mostly because you are not that familiar with the Anthropology of the Ancient Near East.
And
You are trying to force an answer out of an ancient culture that conforms to a more modern question.

The modern thought surrounds modern concepts of motivational factors.

 

[soberxp]

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the Jews in the Bible are somewhat hardened.

But it's hard to define what this hardened means.

Romans
11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

[St. SteVen]

Definition​

Gehinnom, often referred to as Gehenna, is a concept in Jewish thought that represents a place of punishment or purification after death. It is commonly seen as a temporary state for the souls of the wicked, where they undergo suffering before being purified and allowed to ascend to Gan Eden, or the Garden of Eden. This idea connects closely with beliefs surrounding death, mourning practices, and the afterlife in Judaism.

It also aligns closely with the belief of Universalism in the early church of the east.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

I don't see it in any of Paul's speeches recorded in Acts, nor in any of his letters.

That's a great question. Topic worthy I think.

Did the Apostle Paul believe in a forever burning hell?

Saw this quote on another topic. I don't see it in any of Paul's speeches recorded in Acts, nor in any of his letters. Link: Isn’t it odd that the apostles never questioned Jesus about his forever torture chamber? See post #20 Which begs the question: Did the Apostle Paul believe in a...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Chrysostomos]

@Behold
When I wrote message #21
I wasn’t thinking about you as a person. Not even a little. I was replying to your idea—that Christianity doesn’t use hell as a motivator. The punch example? Just a real-life parallel to show how people (yes, including Christians) are motivated by consequences, not just pure love. It was never about you personally. I didn’t know your name, your face, your life. You were just a guy who posted something I disagreed with.

Then you came back with:

Thats easy for you to imply in my direction , when you are hiding behind your laptop, isn't it... @Chrysostomos

That’s when it went off the rails. You took a general analogy about human behavior and twisted it into a personal threat. That’s not just a misunderstanding—that’s straight-up ego and victim-playing.
You made yourself the center of a story that had nothing to do with you. I wasn’t “implying” anything in your direction. I wasn’t hiding. I was just making a point in a forum discussion.

Look, man—nobody’s out to get you. Nobody’s dreaming of fighting you. This whole thing? It’s in your head. Let it go.

 

[Behold]

I wasn’t thinking about you as a person. Not even a little.

I dont believe you.

I think you are being dishonest because you are embarrassed by your own posted public stupidity.

I dont think this is something new for you.@Chrysostomos

So, my advice, is that if you want to talk about ""punching someone"", (on a Christian forum ever again).... then dont post it to me.
Post it instead to one of the Mods and let them solve your issue for you.

= Be smarter next time, and you have my permission to stop talking about your issue = asap, vs continuing to post about it over and over.
Also, if an anger management class would help you, then why dont you sign up?
Maybe some group therapy would help...

 

[Behold]

It also aligns closely with the belief of Universalism in the early church of the east.

You mean, it also aligns closely with the Heretical Gospel of Universalism that was taught by heretics in the early church.

 

[Behold]

But it's hard to define what this hardened means.

"hardened" means unable to hear the Spirit of God, or it can mean that the conscience in a person has lost sensitivity regarding discerning the difference between right and wrong.
It can also meam "mind blinded".

SIN hardens the heart......and this is related to the conscience becoming less and less sensitive to sin.

 

[Chrysostomos]

I dont believe you.

I think you are being dishonest because you are embarrassed by your own posted public stupidity.

I dont think this is something new for you.@Chrysostomos

So, my advice, is that if you want to talk about ""punching someone"", (on a Christian forum ever again).... then dont post it to me.
Post it instead to one of the Mods and let them solve your issue for you.

= Be smarter next time, and you have my permission to stop talking about your issue = asap, vs continuing to post about it over and over.
Also, if an anger management class would help you, then why dont you sign up?
Maybe some group therapy would help...

What exactly don’t you believe? That you’re just some random guy on a forum to me, someone I know nothing about except whatever’s in your profile?

Seriously—what’s the motive? Why on earth would I want to “punch” you? Give me one single reason. There isn’t one.

You’re being paranoid, ego-driven, and playing the victim for no reason.
You need help, man. See a therapist.

 

[Behold]

What exactly don’t you believe? That you're just some random guy on a forum to me..

I told you what i dont believe, in 2 posts., and explained it.

So, if im just some "random guy on a forum" then maybe you can find someone else to talk to...?, unless you just can't help yourself and need to keep posting to me regarding your "need to punch someone" issue.

Why dont you try that, asap? @Chrysostomos

 

[Jericho]

It's my understanding that Judaism doesn't teach such a doctrine. So a forever torture chamber would certainly have been a radical new concept to the Apostles. And then consider that Jesus, who described himself as the "good shepherd", would never stop searching for the lost and who advocated strongly for mercy and forgiveness was suddenly threatening the unrepentant to a forever torture chamber. Yet, there is no mention in the scriptures of the Apostles questioning Jesus about it. Why is that?

Because it was by divine revelation. Here's the thing: the Old Testament saints never talk much about hell or the afterlife because they didn't have much revelation about it. They only knew about the grave, Sheol, so they had a more neutral, if not pessimistic, view of death. When you get to the New Testament, there's a stark contrast. There's a bigger emphasis on the afterlife and eternal rewards. Why? Because revelation is progressive. They had insights that the Old Testament saints did not. Someone said that Jesus never taught about it, but that isn't true. He did exactly that in the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Some think it's just a parable, okay, but that doesn't explain why Jesus included the concept in his sermon and never refuted it. By the way, there's a difference between being tortured and being tormented. The rich man was tormented but he wasn't being tortured.

 

[soberxp]

Because it was by divine revelation. Here's the thing: the Old Testament saints never talk much about hell or the afterlife because they didn't have much revelation about it. They only knew about the grave, Sheol, so they had a more neutral, if not pessimistic, view of death. When you get to the New Testament, there's a stark contrast. There's a bigger emphasis on the afterlife and eternal rewards. Why? Because revelation is progressive. They had insights that the Old Testament saints did not. Someone said that Jesus never taught about it, but that isn't true. He did exactly that in the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Some think it's just a parable, okay, but that doesn't explain why Jesus included the concept in his sermon and never refuted it. By the way, there's a difference between being tortured and being tormented. The rich man was tormented but he wasn't being tortured.

I think it is for the human race understanding way, Reward and punish.
I don't think this is God's way, or God could have destroyed Satan from the beginning.
What God did to Cain?

Only human beings found the Reward and punish..

 

[Jericho]

I don't think this is God's way, or God could have destroyed Satan from the beginning.

There is a deferred punishment coming for Satan. He will be cast into the Lake of Fire at some future point.

 

[soberxp]

There is a deferred punishment coming for Satan. He will be cast into the Lake of Fire at some future point.

That can only be because God's patience has expired, and God's teaching for Satan extends to Jesus Christ in the case of Job, Satan does not accept God's teaching and rejects God's treatment of him. He always disobeys God's word, even if it sounds like punishment. In other words, Satan's rebellion is hopeless and can only be remade in the furnace, which is a lake of fire.